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jimmyjam

Is TrackIR best choice?

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hi, was wondering if most of you use track IR? I think the VR headset would make me feel sick and very expensive. I can't seem to look around with mjy hat switch and sick of using right hand on mouse for spotting while flying left handed and then swapping to right hand when target aquired haha¬†ūüė£¬†

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Yes, TrackIR 5 is the standard for gaming head tracking. It is very effective. There exist solutions with similar functionality through Opentrack, often at lower prices.

 

The effect of VR is entirely different; it cannot be compared directly to pure head tracking. Although I won't go into great detail, VR lets you sit in the real aircraft and experience the geometry of the world like never before. With head tracking, you're still looking at a flat monitor. Familiarize yourself with the benefits and drawbacks of VR before purchasing a headset, particularly regarding hardware requirements and image quality limitations.

 

 

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TrackIR is very good and widely used and the best head tracker. 

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Consider the trackhat setup, it's pretty cheap compared to trackIR but is very accurate, i'm very happy with mine.

 

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I used TrackIR for several years and it was satisfactory but after using the Rift VR for the first time, I hung up the TrackIR and have

never touched it since.   You simply cannot compare it to flight in VR, it completely outclasses TrackIr in all respects.

All you have to do is check out all the VR comments, they run 100 to 1 against the negative comments and track IR. 

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If not VR I would choose Track IR5.

It just works , and works nicely.

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TrackIR and VR really aren’t the same type of device or alternatives to one another. 

But comparing the two also begs the question about the future of VR gaming which does not seem certain.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mashable.com/2018/01/24/virtual-reality-gaming-loser-gdc-2018-survey.amp

TrackIR is certainly a safer investment at this point. 

Edited by SharpeXB

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LOL not again really...

Give it a rest already.

 

And they certainly are alternatives to each other. Even the OP mentioned it when considering.

He said he feared VR due to motion sickness, so I suggested Track IR if not VR.

Quite simple really. 

 

 

Edited by dburne

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45 minutes ago, dburne said:

And they certainly are alternatives to each other.

 

Since you’re using VR I’m sure you can see the point. IMO They’re nothing alike each other. That’s my impression. 

TrackIR moves your view looking at a 2D screen. 

VR puts you IN the game. Which is a completely different experience than looking at a screen. 

They always get compared to one another but that’s the impression I get from trying VR. It’s nothing like a screen. 

Edited by SharpeXB

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:wacko:

 

He was asking about Track IR versus other head trackers. He already said he did not think VR would be for him due to sickness and expense.

So I suggested Track IR5 as opposed to other head trackers.

 

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6 hours ago, fiddlinjim said:

I used TrackIR for several years and it was satisfactory but after using the Rift VR for the first time, I hung up the TrackIR and have

never touched it since.   You simply cannot compare it to flight in VR, it completely outclasses TrackIr in all respects.

All you have to do is check out all the VR comments, they run 100 to 1 against the negative comments and track IR. 

 

A bit of an overstatement I'd say. VR will not outclass TiR in combined picture clarity/detail and gfx performance department, at least not in foreseeable future. Importance of these factors, compared to superior immersion of VR does depend on the flight sim one plays, but still, they're something to keep in mind. Also some of the First World yuppies should note that not everyone can afford paying through the nose to get into the VR-club, the set being the cheaper component actually, being shadowed by hefty GPU and CPU costs. 

 

Money is an important factor for OP it seems, so for the time being, all things considered, I'd recommend getting TiR as a useful budget solution indeed. New one might still seem a bit overpriced for what it is, but attractive offers for second hand ones pop up regularly on Ebay and "buy/sell" sections of various flight sim forums.

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I would not recommend branded TrackIR, I think it's pretty expensive compared to the alternatives. TrackIR 5 with a tracking clip is $169, that's half way to the price of an Oculus Rift. You might as well save up for the real-deal VR (as long as the rest of your computer is powerful enough). Or, just go with a cheaper option such as TrackHat (which I own and is pretty decent) or even EDTracker (which I previously owned and liked a lot). Those are both in the $50 range, much cheaper.

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I used TrackIr for years and when it works it works well but I kept having niggling problems with it glitching when I played during the day and some sun got through the curtains.  It also had a bit of a lag if I spun my head quickly such as when passing the enemy after a head-on or in the middle of a violent scissors battle.  It would lose track of where it was for a second and you would be looking at the floor or the seat back. In those circumstances that means you lose sight of the enemy and that can be enough to lose you the fight.    I switched to EDTracker then added Opentrack to get the two motions that EDTracker does not support natively ie leaning sideways and sitting up/ducking down.     I find that works well plus it has absolutely no problems with me whipping my head round fast.    Here is a very short video showing how it handles the missing motions.  

 

 

It is not perfect.   I do have to turn off my mobile/cell phone when flying as sometimes it cause glitches.  It also sometimes drifts off if I stare over my shoulder for a long time so I have to keep a button handy to rescenter the view.    On the other hand I also had to have recentre button for Trackir as sometimes that also got confused.

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex

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Ok, thanks for replies. So I didn't know about trackhat. It is so much cheaper. I was just wondering if the clip one is better or the hat? Does anyone find it strange moving head while still looking at screen?

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If you're looking for immersion and you're more of a single player type of guy then VR will get you hooked in like nothing else.

If you're more about being competetive online and owning noobs then, in my opinion, VR hasn't gotten there yet (emphasizing "yet") and TrackIR will most likely be a better choice.

I firmly believe though that next wave of VR headsets will have good enough resolution for TrackIR to go out of business as the immersion factor between the two is beyond comparison.

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3 hours ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Track IR $160 .

used Rift $250

Get a used Rift and forget about it.ÔĽŅÔĽŅ

 

It's not quite that simple. Of course, VR is the ultimate flight experience. However, if one does not have a powerful computer, a HOTAS, and a certain tolerance for VR, the Rift can be very frustrating.

 

6 hours ago, jimmyjam said:

Ok, thanks for replies. So I didn't know about trackhat. It is so much cheaper. I was just wondering if the clip one is better or the hat? Does anyone find it strange moving head while still looking at screen?ÔĽŅ

Hats and clips both work perfectly fine. It's largely a matter of personal preference. What do you see yourself wearing for extended periods of time?

 

It initially does feel strange somewhat to move your head while staring at the screen, but it's nothing that you can't get used to quickly. After a few missions, it becomes second nature.

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7 hours ago, jimmyjam said:

Does anyone find it strange moving head while still looking at screen?

 

Not at all.   It is all scaled up so you are only moving your head about 45 degrees to be looking at your 6.   Point your nose at the edge of your screen and move your eyes to look at the centre and you will see it is trivial.  It has been a long time since I first used it. Maybe it was a little odd for the first hour but you quickly get used to it and don't notice what you are doing any more. 

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You could also consider the Delan gear. Their starter set up (which is the camera and the wired clip) is under £40 but i guess it depends on where you are in the world.  I use a TIR5 camera I got got second hand and the TIR software with the Delanclip and have no issues with over the shoulder stutters, daylight interference (despite sitting next to a curtained window) or in flight glitches. Had both for about 18months with no issues. The TIR software works well although i do think the Opentrack also great. Delan also do a battery powered clip now if wires are a problem but thats £57 on its own. 

 

I used an EDtracker for 3 years but since switching i really appreciate being able to look a little over the nose when making deflections which ws something i couldnt do with the ED tracker naturally. I do miss the rock solid "plug and go" of the EDtracker though and i cant fault the customer service of EDtracker. The usb socket broke on mine (overstarined by me) and they had a free replacement to me in 3 days (including a bank holiday). Im UK based. 

 

The TIR can drift so i have the centre reset and in game defaut view reset bound to the same button on my stick.  The other big issue i had with the TIR is that its designed for sitting on front of a monitor at a desk really. As i use i TV i sit down down in fromt of and about 31/2 ft away the standard configs just did not work well. In the end it got attached to my Wheelstand with a sawn off coat hanger in a "Heath Robinson" style so is sits just under my eyeline about 2 ft away. Works perfectly. 

 

As Roblex says head movement is small and almost like Fly By Wire where you are almost just "thinking" the position so you soon get used to it. Id warn against setting it up so your head movemtns are too small though as this can make tracking hard and can cause the imporession of jerkiness on slower monitors. Starting with Requiems setting is a goot start although the stock "smooth" isnt so bad either. 

Edited by SCG_BOO

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I do get sick in a cars backseat when I try to read something same in a rollercoaster. But in VR nothing. 

I was always very sceptical for VR, but after a try in an VR arcadehal, I did know this could be great in IL-2. If I was you, I would try it in an VR arcadehal and feel if you get sick. For me I did stop playing all my nonVR games like RoF & Woff and went for Il2 in VR. TrackIR5 is dismanteld and will be solt. 

 

If getting VR for all types of tripleA games like Battlefield, CoD, that future will be vanish like 3d gaming, at that point the VR-hype is now complete over. Only if wanting VR for only flysims and racegames, that small niche will be stabil and going strong. 

 

note: you do need a highend PC set, because if going to use VR at a low FPS, yep you do get sick. 

 

 

Edited by Dutch2

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4 hours ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Track IR $160 .

used Rift $250

Get a used Rift and forget about it.

I think you missed some words off the end of the last sentence. Those being "until you can then afford a computer like mine to run it"

 

If I hold one tiny critism of  some (not all) VRer its the number of times they shout "come on in the water's fine" without asking if the person can swim. 

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9 hours ago, SCG_BOO said:

You could also consider the Delan gear. Their starter set up (which is the camera and the wired clip) is under £40 but i guess it depends on where you are in the world.  I use a TIR5 camera I got got second hand and the TIR software with the Delanclip and have no issues with over the shoulder stutters, daylight interference (despite sitting next to a curtained window) or in flight glitches. Had both for about 18months with no issues. The TIR software works well although i do think the Opentrack also great. Delan also do a battery powered clip now if wires are a problem but thats £57 on its own. 

 

The Delan clip is a good investment. I bought one less than a year ago, to replace the ever-fragile clip that TrackIR has never improved, despite numerous complaints. It works really, really well with the TrackIR camera and software. If it ever failed (which I highly doubt, but anyhow), I'd probably pick up one of those wireless units they now sell, but in my case having cables isn't a bother.

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My PC is getting old now... i5, 16gb Ram, GTX660... and I don't think i'll be upgrading video card till maybe later in year... And I just realised I won't be able to see my keyboard if I have googles on my head... So head tracking is what I want. I live in Australia though and trackIR is around $350 AUD!!! Insane! And then the TrackHat is around $130 AUD delivered so not that cheap being in Aus... This is a tough one. Would trackIR last longer do you think?

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10 minutes ago, jimmyjam said:

My PC is getting old now... i5, 16gb Ram, GTX660... and I don't think i'll be upgrading video card till maybe later in year... And I just realised I won't be able to see my keyboard if I have googles on my head... So head tracking is what I want. I live in Australia though and trackIR is around $350 AUD!!! Insane! And then the TrackHat is around $130 AUD delivered so not that cheap being in Aus... This is a tough one. Would trackIR last longer do you think?

Yeah, with a GTX 660, VR is a no-go. Depending on the i5 model, the CPU may be too slow as well.

 

All of the head tracking devices are infinite life if you don’t abuse them, so there’s no need to be concerned.

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Went to buy the  trackhat hat setup and they all sold out... I don't want to wear headphones... Should I just get the clip and tape it to my head each time?

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I'm flying using VR and loving it, although I seem to not suffer at all from motion sickness so don't really feel like I can comment on that aspect of it.

 

If you want to try out head-tracking before buying TrackIR, I found that TackNoIR works surprisingly well (I used it mostly for ARMA and Elite Dangerous) and is really simple to set up.

It just uses your face as a tracking point rather than IR lights, so it's not as accurate as a Freetrack system, but it's a really nice way to see if you want to invest.

 

I find flying without some form of headtracking is simply awkward and not enjoyable.

Edited by Alfredoo

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On 1/28/2019 at 3:44 AM, SharpeXB said:

TrackIR is very good and widely used and the best head tracker. 

I tend to agree but I have one issue: I have to reset the center of the image pretty often.

Is it normal ?

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15 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

I tend to agree but I have one issue: I have to reset the center of the image pretty often.

Is it normal ?

Mine is rather stable. It's usually me that is not staying in place. MP a lot of work is... ;)

 

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29 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

I tend to agree but I have one issue: I have to reset the center of the image pretty often.

Is it normal ?

With TrueView the centering is sometimes off. Without it there is less need to reset view but I get confused every time when looking back and trying to lean to side.

 

I have TrueView on but I've disabled y-axis (up/down). And I use this trick that I wrote about in another section:

 

Wirh these settings I don't need to reset the view very often.

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1 hour ago, IckyATLAS said:

I tend to agree but I have one issue: I have to reset the center of the image pretty often.

Is it normal ?

I have to recenter it a little sometimes. IL-2 is pretty good at keeping it centered. It’s the game that causes this, not TrackIR. If you test just the TIR screen it will never lose centering. For some reason games can though. DCS is pretty bad. 

I use the ‚Äúsmooth‚ÄĚ preset and have Trueview checked (not sure what that does)

since my HOTAS buttons are all full I pick a keyboard key that’s easy to find and not typically assigned in flight sims. Like arrow up (usually assigned to the elevator key command which I’ll never use) 

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1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

I have to recenter it a little sometimes. IL-2 is pretty good at keeping it centered. It’s the game that causes this, not TrackIR. If you test just the TIR screen it will never lose centering. For some reason games can though. DCS is pretty bad. 

I use the ‚Äúsmooth‚ÄĚ preset and have Trueview checked (not sure what that does)

since my HOTAS buttons are all full I pick a keyboard key that’s easy to find and not typically assigned in flight sims. Like arrow up (usually assigned to the elevator key command which I’ll never use) 

I would disagree that it is games fault. I wrote to Natural Point (maker of Trackir) and they said that they are aware of problem related to TrueView. And the problem was that Trackir is not always centered correctly after looking around. They told me that they plan to fix the issue.

 

With TrueView you're always moving your head in the correct way regardless of what direction you're facing. Here is an example:

Let's say you're looking at your 6 o'clock. 

TrueView on:

When you move your head closer to where your nose is pointing your view in-game moves closer to the seat. 

If you lean to right your view in-game will move closer to left / port side of canopy.

TrueView off:

When you move your head closer to where your nose is pointing your view in-game moves away from the seat.

If you lean to right your in-game will move closer to right / starboard side of canopy.

 

So without TrueView your movements are inverted when looking straight back. And that is very, very confusing at least for me.

 

 

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Yeah I’ve never turned trueview off. As far as centering as far as I can tell I have a hard time un-centering in the TIR menu but games vary in how much they need to be recentered. 

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3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Yeah I’ve never turned trueview off. As far as centering as far as I can tell I have a hard time un-centering in the TIR menu but games vary in how much they need to be recentered. 

 

One thing could be that in flight sims we usually have the gun sight and you notice it more easily if you're off center. In a racing simulator it might not be so obvious if your point of view is 10cm off.

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8 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

I tend to agree but I have one issue: I have to reset the center of the image pretty often.

Is it normal ?

I also have to do this, but I've discovered why. As well as the previously mentioned built-in error with TrueView (which apparently is going to be fixed in any case), I tried a little test.

 

 I flew a bomber escort mission in my normal PC chair, and then again in a chair I pinched from the dining room. The latter was rather less comfortable, but also does not swivel, and it turns out that Newton was right. My center of mass is behind the swivel on my PC chair; every time I turn my head I introduce a turning moment in the chair, and even more so whenever I lean. Even the little bit of sway forwards and backwards in the back rest is enough to throw off my vertical centering as well as forwards and backwards centering. In the solid chair from the dining room, admittedly the fixed back made leaning while looking back a little more awkward, but I lost center maybe twice in a 45 minute mission instead of six or seven times.

 

 I should add: by "lost center" I mean lost it badly enough to just adjusting my sitting position a little wasn't enough and I needed to use the hotkey. 

 

For those who fly German aircraft regularly by the way, I personally would recommend holding one's head in the centerline position and hitting F10 (which sets the default center view for that aircraft in IL-2). This makes actually co-ordinating a turn or lining up on the runway significantly easier because rolling the aircraft doesn't raise or lower your eyeline. Then you can lean into your gunsight for firing, and tend to get a slightly better view over the nose for getting into a firing position in the first place.

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4 hours ago, Remontti said:

 

One thing could be that in flight sims we usually have the gun sight and you notice it more easily if you're off center. In a racing simulator it might not be so obvious if your point of view is 10cm off.

The big game differences I see compared to IL-2 are with DCS and X-Plane. Those are the only two sims I felt the need to make profiles for and DCS loses center much worse than any other game. I also realize click pit sims need an exaggerated head movement to look at switches, like being able to look under your throttle which isn’t realistic but necessary. IL-2 and RoF work without any adjustment for me. 

Project Cars 2 with TrackIR is fantastic. And it’s really necessary to be able to look ahead at the apex. Racing sims are so intense, it makes a difference where you can put your vision. 

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Ok, so I haven't had time to buy it yet but I will be buying a ps3 camera for $4 at EB games and then am either going to decide between TrackHat Clip Plus or the Delanclip Fusion??? Has anyone seen both of them? Are they same quality? 

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Im with Roblex. I was using TiR5 for yrs and now im more satisfied with Edtracker pro for the same reason as Roblex explained. Its less jerky, its less HW demanding, it smoother somehow and its much cheaper. Also the background light isnt a problem. The only con would be it doesnt have full 6DOF like TiR but it can have "pseudo 6DOF" with fine tuning in opentrack. Im using my actual head roll (which I didnt even use with TiR) for leaning over and to the side of my cockpit/plane nose and for leaning over my back to check 6. Its working perfectly that way. At the end TiR is just an advanced IR/camera tracker. IMHO any camera driven tracker is inferior to gyro/magnetometer combination for obivous reasons. Earlier version of edtracker (DIY) had gyro only and had some drift issues but pro version with magnetometer and gyro doesnt have that.

The problem is Edtracker pro is out of stock for a while now.

VR is great but its till in a baby stage. Resolution isnt great and it demands a big investment in a strong PC. Also as i Vestibular Neuritis survivor its a o go for me due to possible motion sickness that it can activate. Also I cant hav that on my face, specially in summer days.

 

Edited by blackram

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1 hour ago, blackram said:

Im using my actual head roll (which I didnt even use with TiR) for leaning over and to the side of my cockpit/plane nose and for leaning over my back to check 6ÔĽŅ.ÔĽŅÔĽŅ

 

Same.¬† I never used head roll in TrackIr because I did not like the effect of having the screen tilt when I tilted my head. That is not true to life where tilting your 45 degrees means your view is 45 degrees to the horizon; the horizon does not tilt to match it¬†ūü§®¬† ¬† ¬†Now I tilt my head and my head moves¬†sideways and with Opentrack¬†it will also switch sides when you look behind because when you look over your right shoulder you actually tilt your head left to move your view further right.

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Oh yes, I went to buy an Edtracker as I thought it sounded great but no stock.... I have already bought a PS3 camera and am going to do the modification.

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