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HFG_Hunger

Most performance-saving AAA-Position for COOP Missions

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Salute Community, 

 

since my tiny flight enthusiasts community flys COOP missions for about half a year now, I've always struggeled to build a most performance saving AAA position. 

I used to use a bunch of complex triggers to check if enemy planes fly in or out of the AAAs area, but since I have to cover a specific frontline area with approx 25 AAA positions, performance is getting worse. 

My question now is, if you have an idea for a performance safing AAA pos, wich activates if I come close and deactivates when I leave their area WITHOUT complex triggers. 

 

Horridoh and thank you for your ideas, 

 

 

Hunger

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i made a video going over using standard triggers for what you describe.  Jim’s guide also covers the topic very well. You can use this sort of mechanic for more than just AAA.  This  method does not use complex triggers.  

 

Check the stickied video video thread of mine for more videos.  Also take a look at Jim’s guide.

Edited by [Pb]Vapor

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I think this logic has a number of problems that might not be obvious when testing with a single plane. Consider the scenario with two planes A and B where (1) A enters, then (2) B enters, then (3) A leaves.

This how the logic executes:

  • (1) Check zone "in" is triggered. Deactivates itself, activates the Check zone "out" and the artillery
  • (2) Nothing special happens. We now have two planes in the zone
  • (3) Check zone "out" is triggered, Artillery is deactivated, even though B is still in the zone

See

for an alternative solution, which I use on my server.

 

EDIT: never mind, my understanding of the check zone "further" option was wrong.

Edited by coconut

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6 hours ago, coconut said:

I think this logic has a number of problems that might not be obvious when testing with a single plane. Consider the scenario with two planes A and B where (1) A enters, then (2) B enters, then (3) A leaves.

This how the logic executes:

  • (1) Check zone "in" is triggered. Deactivates itself, activates the Check zone "out" and the artillery
  • (2) Nothing special happens. We now have two planes in the zone
  • (3) Check zone "out" is triggered, Artillery is deactivated, even though B is still in the zone

...

 

Coconut,

 

A few years back, while I was writing the manual, I tested a "further" check zone trigger in SP, with myself and an AI plane in the zone. I left the zone first, followed by the AI. The check zone did not fire until the AI plane left the zone (i.e., the zone fired once all objects it was set up to detect had left). I also tested the opposite scenario, where the AI left first followed by me, and I got the same result.

 

I haven't tested my scenario in MP yet so I wonder if it differs from the SP scenario I tested (assuming that the SP behaviour I observed is still happening)?

Edited by JimTM

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3 minutes ago, JimTM said:

the zone fired once all objects it was set up to detect

Do you mean using the filter, or explicit object links?

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4 minutes ago, coconut said:

Do you mean using the filter, or explicit object links?

 

I'm pretty sure I used the filter. I'll check my archive.

Edited by JimTM

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There was once a time when AIs and player-controlled planes were handled differently by the check zone triggers and complex triggers, in multiplayer IIRC. If you still have the mission it's worth to test now.

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18 minutes ago, coconut said:

There was once a time when AIs and player-controlled planes were handled differently by the check zone triggers and complex triggers, in multiplayer IIRC. If you still have the mission it's worth to test now.

 

I got the same response in SP as before: trigger fires once all planes have left the area.

JimTM-TestChkZoneTrig3-1.zip

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You are right, that surprised me. So the "further" checkbox does not mean "there is a plane further than xxx meters away", it means "no planes within xxx meters", or as you say "all planes further than xxx meters".

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2 hours ago, JimTM said:

 

I got the same response in SP as before: trigger fires once all planes have left the area.

JimTM-TestChkZoneTrig3-1.zip

 

I tested in MP (with myself only) and got the same results as SP except for the case where you spawn an AI plane. It appears that spawning an AI plane disables the check zone "further" functionality. If you reenter an empty zone (after the spawned AI leaves the zone) and then you exit the zone again, the trigger does not fire.

 

If you activate the AI plane instead of spawning it, the check zone works the same as in SP.

 

I haven't tested these scenarios with the check zone "closer" yet and I haven't tested with other players joining the mission.

 

Here is a zip with missions for the spawn and activate cases:

JimTM-TestChkZoneTrig3-4TwoMP.zip

 

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Thank you for testing guys! We've experienced no problems with it so far. 

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On 1/20/2019 at 1:57 AM, HFG_Hunger said:

Salute Community, 

 

since my tiny flight enthusiasts community flys COOP missions for about half a year now, I've always struggeled to build a most performance saving AAA position. 

I used to use a bunch of complex triggers to check if enemy planes fly in or out of the AAAs area, but since I have to cover a specific frontline area with approx 25 AAA positions, performance is getting worse. 

My question now is, if you have an idea for a performance safing AAA pos, wich activates if I come close and deactivates when I leave their area WITHOUT complex triggers. 

 

Horridoh and thank you for your ideas, 

 

 

Hunger

 

Just out of curiosity can you give me some ball park figures . For example, of your 25 AAA positions how many guns are in a "position" roughly? How many AI/human pilots and what types of planes during your mission? (more crew/gunners and multi-engine = far more demanding, ie he 111). What map? And finally what was your negative performance impact like and did this affect all players or not?

 

I've primarily worked on SP content and I have my own ball-park figures of how much is too much... I plan on making some CO-OP missions though and performance limitations might limit my designs slightly. 

 

thanks for any intel, I know I'm asking a lot but I can't just rally like 12 people to jump into a CO-OP mission for performance testing...

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My recent COOP setup, based on a "Free Hunt" mission:

 

For playercount: up to 10

Map: Moscow / Stalingrad

Red AI Planes over all (not activated): 50

Red AI Vehicles over all: 50

Red AI Artillery guns: 18

Red AI AAA guns: approx 65

 

Blue AI Planes over all (not activared): 10 (own flight) + 12 

Blue AI Vehicles over all: 10

Blue AI Artillery guns: 0

Blue AI AAA guns: approx 12

 

You see, to save performance, I heavily shortened blue AI activity. I had to simulate the danger of flying over the frontline cause of AAA, the danger of getting jumped by red fighters, red bombers crossing the frontline and red recon planes searching for blue troops. 

 

Every AAA Pos has 2-3 guns, one heavy, one medium and sometimes a small one. I set them up approx every 7-9km, but focused on villages, bridges, strongpoints und cities. Enemy Airfields have own AAA pos. 

 

To make the frontline activity as random as possible, every red and blue AI is deactivated at mission start. A 4/6 way-switch triggers then at least -> 1 enemy fighter squad, 1 enemy bomber squad, 2 enemy recon planes, 1 enemy vehicle convoy, 1 enemy train and 1 own fighter squad. 

 

All of the now triggered AI groups have at least 4 different waypoint options, triggered by another 4/6 way switch. That means, that even it triggers 5 times the same fighter squadron in 5 COOPs, they will propably have different waypoints and so, it creates a high random factor. 

 

Area Checkzones and Subtitles report enemy planes crossing the frontline, so the player gets drawn "in the right direction", but has to actively earch for the enemy planes.

 

Every AI is at least set to "high", to prevent the devensive circle. 

 

There is always one Enemy fighter Group (1,2 or three Planes) set to "Veteran", wich does NOT get reported and flys generally at about 3-5km height. They also have Waypoints reaching deeply into blue territory. 

That makes us always be in high alert, cause you could be jumped everytime. 

 

This is my basic setup for our "FREE HUNT" missions. 

I use that mission setup to build my COOP mission upon it. So that "Free Hunt" mission setup always runs in the background.

 

If the mission objective for a specific COOP is very AI heavy, I just deactivate parts of the "Free Hunt" setup. 

 

 

My older COOP setup, based on a "Free Hunt" mission, wich caused performance problems:

 

I used not to have random switches for the different waypoints, but had a lot of other squads with own wayponts, triggered by a random switch. 

Also, I had my whole AAA positions checking their areas with COMPLEX Triggers. 

 

Both caused partly heavy micro stuttering, lags and sometimes even sudden server crashes.

 

 

We can talk about it on TS if you want. 

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7 minutes ago, HFG_Hunger said:

Area Checkzones and Subtitles report enemy planes crossing the frontline

Is it possible for players to fly these enemy planes? If not, you won't need checkzones for them. Instead, have a waypoint at the frontline trigger the subtitle.

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No it's not, but it depends on my intention. If I want to have several, not specified planes to be reported, I use check zones. If I want to call out a specific Plane with its height for example "A squadron Sturmoviks just passed Kalach at Hanni 700, target approx Sekretov."

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I am utilizing random switches a lot as well so there will be an element of surprise and offer some degree of replayability. And my early CO-OP test missions (which thread I have deleted) I utilized a similar checkzone and report of enemy aircraft message system that you describe - seems like a good idea when applicable, like your free-hunt scenario.

 

I'm just adding some finishing spice to my new CO-OP mission and I am considering possible issues when all players are present. When I test, it's just me right... so if I have the vast majority of all my checkzone logic to start 5s after mission begin... will that cause issues? - I mean the fact that they ALL fire at 5s after mission begin. Should I make the further ones 10s, 20s, ect to play it safe? I am getting away with 3 complex triggers only. But I start with a unique mission... Ju 52 supply, so I must detect the drops/unloads.

 

I am just trying to mitigate risk of things not firing properly under load of co-op event with many players. (would suck to fly for 1 hour only to see things not activated when they all worked while testing alone)

 

Thanks for any help guys.

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No worries about activating them all at once.

 

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As Gambit said, all of my triggers fire 4 seks after mission start, no problems ever occurred. 

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I wanted to measure the "resources" impact on performances by having a mission with many planes attack zones, multiple AAA, convoys tanks etc.

 

FPS is 110 so no problem for the GPU. I also checked the Time Slow Down Ratio (TSDR) that was a clear 1.0.

 

I mentioned in my post on Multiple Bombers benchmark mission. In that mission the ratio is 1.0 which means there is no slow down and the CPU does handle all the resources of the mission fine. TSDR is calculated on the basis of 30 seconds period of time, comparing a real clock and the rate at which the internal clock of IL2 slows as the CPU becomes loaded due to the resources eaten up by the various objects.

TSDR = IL2 Clock / Real Clock.

We saw in those tests with 65 planes that planes are the culprit and big bombers eat the most resources. Land based fixed AAA, Truck convoys and trains or tanks, ships are basically with little impact. In the test I had six trains loaded with active AAA, two large convoys with tanks, trucks with AAA, 40 artillery pieces, 7 boats, and the impact was very marginal. What I did not check was if MCUS like Trigger Check Area do eat up a lot of resources.

 

So in this new mission mentioned at the beginning of this post designed as to have activity so that all check zones would be enbled active and working, I added up 112 Trigger Check Area MCUs, plus a few Attack Area too. 56 were designed detecting entering planes or trucks, and 56 detecting outgoing objects. Planes were flying through a jumble of all these zones. Impact on FPS was nil, and most important impact on TSR was NIL too. Ratio did not move from 1.0. I can even say that it was like 0.96 so IL2 was even a little faster.

 

Conclusion, just use these simple Triggers (Check Area, Attack Area) as you like.

 

I have not checked the impact on the Complex Triggers yet, it may be different.

 

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FYI check zones and attack area triggers are not analogous.

 

You’re never going to have more than 1, possibly a few, 3 to 5 attack commands active at any one time anyway.

 

Check zones on the other hand it might be useful (and plausible) to have many active at once.

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I'm working on a super-mission for CO-OP set during BoS Summer '42. I plan on 12 slots for 129s OR 109 Emil Jabo. If I could have a Staffel of both = 24 planes that would be awesome. But I am skeptical about performance or crashing in CO-OP due to my lack of experience with it. I just need people to fill it up to test and see "how much is too much" I guess.

 

I am utilizing checkzones and lots I mean LOTS of random triggers... each "target zone" has 3 different versions to add to replay-ability. I am adapting this concept from singleplayer to CO-OP. I am done with singleplayer. The AI needs to be nuked. 

Drive_Across_the_Don.thumb.png.8927486fc9b80e540e20f1cecc15b860.png

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On 2/27/2019 at 3:29 PM, Gambit21 said:

FYI check zones and attack area triggers are not analogous.

 

You’re never going to have more than 1, possibly a few, 3 to 5 attack commands active at any one time anyway.

 

Check zones on the other hand it might be useful (and plausible) to have many active at once.

 

Hmmm. I'm using multiple attack area commands at an objective, to try to get the AA to fire a little more usefully. For example I have a 'flak' attack area for puffy flak diameter 4.5km, and MG1, MG2, MG3 attack areas for machine-gun based AA each with 1.2-1.5km ranges, and set close to the physical location of the AA. Am I likely to run into issues with (say) 4 attack areas active at 6-10 target sites? (So maybe up to 40 attack areas active at once).

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Well I’ve had good results with KISS logic.

My logic is as complex as it needs to be, no more. I haven’t needed to put together anything that involved to get AA to work properly.

 

I use proximity triggers and force complete ‘low’

 

That said I don’t know everything and there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

 

No that number if attack commands shouldn’t make a dent in performance.

 

Although now that I think about it - I think I did get better results from flak at a longer distance using the attack area command.

 

 

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