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HeavyCavalrySgt

When Do You Stop Shooting?

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I recently made a head-on pass against a fighter and got some hits which included a large explosion under the aircraft.  I started to climb away thinking that it was time to pick a new target but glancing back I saw that not only was my target still flying, he still felt like fighting.

 

I don't want to waste ammo on a dead target, but I could have held the trigger down a little longer on that guy!

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If it's safe I shoot em till they are most certainly dead 😏

 

And if I just damage one and dont see him go down I dont count it (in PWCG).  

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I like to treat Career Mode as Dead is Dead so follow the real world advice, never pursue a target you think is destroyed. A good hit is enough, I will leave them and keep awareness. Many times I will get awarded kills that I never saw go down. I would rather miss out on a kill and get home alive than the alternative. That has served well flying many career hours in IL-2 and RoF. 

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Let me guess: You were flying a German fighter. The enhanced visual effect of the Minengeschoß ammo explosion can give the false impression, that the target has been utterly destroyed, when in fact the damage is superficial.

Edited by Finkeren

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Stop shooting? Why stop shooting? :crazy:

 

But seriously: on a head-on pass, I only stop shooting when it's time to pull away from him.
I want to SEE my shots doing damage; he should pull a trail of fuel or smoke. Even better: parts coming off.

 

But a head-on pass shouldn't happen in the first place. It evens the chances too much for your opponent to also land hits on you.

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It largely depends on the situation. if it's just me and the enemy plane, I usually stop shooting once they are losing/burning oil (black smoke). from there, it's only a matter of time until the engine dies and you get rewarded the kill.

 

if theres more going on (and the action is more convoluted), I don't risk some over-ambitions enemies that I originally hit (but didnt "destroy" enough, so to speak) to maybe shoot down a friendly. in those situations, I make sure the enemy has to go down.

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13 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I like to treat Career Mode as Dead is Dead so follow the real world advice, never pursue a target you think is destroyed. A good hit is enough, I will leave them and keep awareness. Many times I will get awarded kills that I never saw go down. I would rather miss out on a kill and get home alive than the alternative. That has served well flying many career hours in IL-2 and RoF. 

 

That is my general strategy as well, particularly on escort missions.

 

7 hours ago, Finkeren said:

Let me guess: You were flying a German fighter. The enhanced visual effect of the Minengeschoß ammo explosion can give the false impression, that the target has been utterly destroyed, when in fact the damage is superficial.

 

I think I was shooting at a 109, but you might be right - maybe it was a couple of cannon shells exploding at about the same point and time on the target.  

When i looked back at him I expected him to be a roman candle, not maneuvering to get on my 6.

 

7 hours ago, EpeeNoire said:

It largely depends on the situation. if it's just me and the enemy plane, I usually stop shooting once they are losing/burning oil (black smoke). from there, it's only a matter of time until the engine dies and you get rewarded the kill.

 

if theres more going on (and the action is more convoluted), I don't risk some over-ambitions enemies that I originally hit (but didnt "destroy" enough, so to speak) to maybe shoot down a friendly. in those situations, I make sure the enemy has to go down.

 

I agree - I try not to expend more ammo on someone that is blowing black smoke.

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When I am sure.  Flames or large chunks of aircraft gone.  Out of control. I would rather get one for sure than ding three.

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In a Yak or SpitV I tend to conserve ammo as much as possible with very short bursts (a few rounds only, never more). In a P-40 with 4 guns and extra ammo, I behave like I have unlimited ammo (which isn't so far from the truth).

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27 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

When I am sure.  Flames or large chunks of aircraft gone.  Out of control. I would rather get one for sure than ding three.

 

Large chunks, unless it's an IL2 or a Lagg (from my experience anyway), in which case I find I usually have to follow them just to be sure they're actually going down! 

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When the burning wreck that was once a glorious bird of prey rolls onto it's back and falls to the ground.

 

 

 

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From my Mk 108 testing, where I deliberately stopped firing after scoring a single hit on enemy aircraft, I learned that many times plane is fatally damaged without showing any kind of serious damage to the outside. So it's always a gamble between conserving ammo and letting your target go free and wasting it on an already dead bird.

Edited by CrazyDuck
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I dont stop until the pilot leaves the plane or slumps over.

Edited by 69TD_Joeasyrida

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19 hours ago, HeavyCavalrySgt said:

I recently made a head-on pass against a fighter and got some hits which included a large explosion under the aircraft.  I started to climb away thinking that it was time to pick a new target but glancing back I saw that not only was my target still flying, he still felt like fighting.

 

I don't want to waste ammo on a dead target, but I could have held the trigger down a little longer on that guy!

 

The real question is why u were doing a head on pass in the first place ...

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7 minutes ago, SCG_Riksen said:

 

The real question is why u were doing a head on pass in the first place ...

 

You would be surprised how many online pilots go for headon against something like an IL-2 in a plane as weakly armed as an 109F2! I've scored countless kills this way in my flying tank and will always go for a headon vs a fighter in an IL-2. Perhaps not vs an A8, but if he's onto you, you are dead anyways, so why not try your luck in a headon.

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1 minute ago, CrazyDuck said:

 

You would be surprised how many online pilots go for headon against something like an IL-2 in a plane as weakly armed as an 109F2! I've scored countless kills this way in my flying tank and will always go for a headon vs a fighter in an IL-2. Perhaps not vs an A8, but if he's onto you, you are dead anyways, so why not try your luck in a headon.

 

Yeah ... it is understandable if u r in an inferior plane but someone flying an 109 or 190 committing to a head on pass is just poor, very poor, piloting ...

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Was it online? 

 

One thing is sure: since 3.009 update, we need about 3 times more ammo (which is... HUGE) than before to shoot down aircrafts online (I don't know in single player, as I almost never fly offline).

Edited by F/JG300_Faucon
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59 minutes ago, SCG_Riksen said:

 

The real question is why u were doing a head on pass in the first place ...

 

I like to try to break up attacking formations before they get to the planes I am escorting - I tend to attack from the high 12 position to force them to burn energy in a climb, pull their attention off the bombers and - hopefully - put some damage to someone's engine to get them out of the fight.

 

Typically the targets can't quite get their nose on me, so they wind up with low energy and nose high attitude and not infrequently stall out of the fight even if I didn't hit them or had to abort the attack.

8 minutes ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

Was it online? 

 

One thing is sure: since 3.009 update, we need about 3 times more ammo (which is... HUGE) than before to shoot down aircrafts online (I don't know in single player, as I almost never fly offline).

 

 

This was single-player.... I have not noticed a difference there.

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1 hour ago, SCG_Riksen said:

 

Yeah ... it is understandable if u r in an inferior plane but someone flying an 109 or 190 committing to a head on pass is just poor, very poor, piloting ...

elaborate why you think that is, please

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The target indicator will disappear once the aircraft is a kill.

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1 hour ago, EpeeNoire said:

elaborate why you think that is, please

 

In a plane that has better power to weight ratio and better top speed doesn't need to commit to a head on like that. The 109's and 190's fit this description when you compare them to most of the competition in the game. You can simply extend away for about 1000 m, climb up a bit and reengage on your terms. If you do it just right you can minimize or completely eliminate any time you spend in the enemy's gun sight. On the other hand if you are in plane like that and you elect to take a head on pass with an inferior enemy aircraft you are effectively putting yourself in their sights and gambling that you are a better shot than your adversary. This shifts the fight from one you can control wholly to a roll of the dice, and if you roll the dice enough you will eventually come up a loser.

 

To answer the OP's question, I find it is best to shoot at the enemy until you are reasonably sure that they are dead or are at least damaged to the point where they are no longer a threat in the event there are other enemies in the fight.

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Stop shooting after the following indicators.

 

1. you see black smoke trailing the other plane

 

2. You see the plane on fire

 

3. You see the plane suffer catastrophic structural failure

 

4. You see the plane heading for the deck in a slow manner with no sign of pulling out.

 

5. You run out of ammo 😁

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6 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

Was it online? 

 

One thing is sure: since 3.009 update, we need about 3 times more ammo (which is... HUGE) than before to shoot down aircrafts online (I don't know in single player, as I almost never fly offline).

 

For the hundredth time, there is no difference in the damage model when playing online. 

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7 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

Was it online? 

 

One thing is sure: since 3.009 update, we need about 3 times more ammo (which is... HUGE) than before to shoot down aircrafts online (I don't know in single player, as I almost never fly offline).

No the plane just wont brake apart in front of you as easy as before.

You can still get quick kills without spending all ammo.

Now need to aim better (Which is good)

What I am seeing is a tendency to shoot until the plane is disintegrating (arcade mentality).

 

Get some good shots and leave, just downed a 109 in KOTA with just a quick burst from my P47 (no I didnt waited until fuselage or wing came apart).

Also was shot down 3 times in Berloga in a Yak with just a single pass by my opponents .

 

Quick kills are still there.

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Normally this:

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 5:55 PM, SharpeXB said:

 A good hit is enough, I will leave them and keep awareness. Many times I will get awarded kills that I never saw go down. I would rather miss out on a kill and get home alive

 

BUT if that target has landed a snap shot on me, I'll chase him

 

"...on both sides of land, and over all sides of earth, till he spouts black blood and rolls fin out."

 

It always drives me nuts to let an AI get away after it's landed a blow  (can usually get away with it, but am sure multiplayer would require a change of temperament)

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1 hour ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

No the plane just wont brake apart in front of you as easy as before.

You can still get quick kills without spending all ammo.

Now need to aim better (Which is good)

What I am seeing is a tendency to shoot until the plane is disintegrating (arcade mentality).

 

Get some good shots and leave, just downed a 109 in KOTA with just a quick burst from my P47 (no I didnt waited until fuselage or wing came apart).

Also was shot down 3 times in Berloga in a Yak with just a single pass by my opponents .

 

Quick kills are still there.

They sure are.  Since the 3.009 update I am finding myself being a better shooter (the added ability to get on the sight with head movement helps), and more of a tight ass with spending ammo on a target.

 

Get up close, judge the shot and give them little bursts of lead love.  Watch out for disintegrating control surfaces though, they can smack your prop about and ruin your return flight.

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3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

For the hundredth time, there is no difference in the damage model when playing online. 

 

 

Ok... You changed DM with 3.008, which is not bad: less wings off, it's more about internal damages, etc, why not. But there was a huge bug with gunner shooting nuclear rounds. 

With the hotfix (3.009 I guess?), bug was solved, but now, we need at least 2 or 3 times more ammo than before to shoot down someone. 

I am like 1000% sure about it and far from being the only one ;)

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50 minutes ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 but now, we need at least 2 or 3 times more ammo than before to shoot down someone. 

 

It is a result of the changes introduced with the 3.008 patch.

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50 minutes ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

 

Ok... You changed DM with 3.008, which is not bad: less wings off, it's more about internal damages, etc, why not. But there was a huge bug with gunner shooting nuclear rounds. 

With the hotfix (3.009 I guess?), bug was solved, but now, we need at least 2 or 3 times more ammo than before to shoot down someone. 

I am like 1000% sure about it and far from being the only one ;)

 

No i see your only one on forum not understanding things

 

3.008 update make changes to DM so it takes more ammo to destroy airplane and made wings harder to brake then before.

 

3.009 update try to fix outdated delays and by doing that maded ALL (not only gunner bullet hits) hits look like 100% damage, and with 12h that was fixed with hotpatch and explained that it had nothing to do with DM or bullet changes in 3.009.

 

2-3 amount of ammo that takes to shoot down airplanes that you say you notice is from 3.008 changes

 

there was only 2 week period betwen 3.008 and 3.009 updates

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Calm down. I was just not remembering what was the purpose of 3.009 (fix oudated delays), that the gunner bug came from this, with the hotfix after. So yes it has nothing to do with DMs.

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On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 10:30 PM, EpeeNoire said:

elaborate why you think that is, please

To my mind, if ure fight in a Superior plane, it's a mistake to give an Opportunity of shot instead find a safe solution...

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On 1/18/2019 at 5:56 AM, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Get some good shots and leave, just downed a 109 in KOTA with just a quick burst from my P47 (no I didnt waited until fuselage or wing came apart).

Also was shot down 3 times in Berloga in a Yak with just a single pass by my opponents .

 

 

That!

 

People shoot till a wing flies off because they're afraid somebody might steal the kill.

 

That's the part of MP being unrealistic - everybody is in a "me first, duck the objective" mood, while IRL that is a quick way to aerial defeat.

Check out the Jagdwaffe - they are a good example for it.

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since the damage model overhaul I love that the wings dont snap that easily. The plane can be stripped from its control surfaces and that helps improve aim. As for how long I shoot.... Usually too short, If it's a deflection I predict, aim, shoot a burst than look.... Need to get rid of this habit... and as for head-ons I really like them... It's a gamble but it is such a thrill that I probably got addicted to it. The real sure shot is when the opponent bursts into flames or loses something essential like a rudder, vertical stabilizer (both)

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If its a squadmate, not until they're a funeral pyre burning on the ground.

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On 1/17/2019 at 10:18 PM, F/JG300_Faucon said:

Was it online? 

 

One thing is sure: since 3.009 update, we need about 3 times more ammo (which is... HUGE) than before to shoot down aircrafts online (I don't know in single player, as I almost never fly offline).

In sp campaign it is perfectly normal for AI to steal kills while most of my own kills are not visible, since most AI planes ditch to the ground. So far I think half of my kills were taken away although that is not that frustrating since AI aborts any attacks if hit hard even once.

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I learned that 3x mk108 hits into center mass near pilot is enough to down almost any fighter except P47 and P40, where I just pump them with ~1 sec burst from everything. If possible in the cockpit or wingroot. Engine is good as well.

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