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mayfly625

damage on the tiger

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3 hours ago, 7./SchG2_v*Athlon said:

aber es ist 130mm 100m

                      92mm 500m !

but it is 130mm 100m !

                92mm 500m !

100Meter130mmT34STZ.jpg

You shouldn´t use War Thunder as a reference. They're inaccurate in some places. Besides, this is not even a mod 41 T-34^^.  If you want to take it exactly, you'd have to know which sources were used for penetration values.

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The numbers given in IL2 (129mm point blank and 90mm at 500m) will still ensure over 100mm up to about 350-400m so nothing suspicious from my games yesterday.

Now I don't have time or buddies to set up some extensive testings on a (preferably) laggy server with icons ON for seeing the exact shooting distances, to see how far the damage model holds up until some weird things happens.

 

But if you want to do so, just go for it ! it is the best possible way to put in some accurate and unbiased feedback to help the devs correct anything that might have slipped through beta testing.

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4 hours ago, Big_Al_the_Allo said:

You shouldn´t use War Thunder as a reference. They're inaccurate in some places. Besides, this is not even a mod 41 T-34^^.  If you want to take it exactly, you'd have to know which sources were used for penetration values.

The T34 STZ same cannon 7.6 cm F34.

 

where are the historical data for TC?

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4 hours ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

The numbers given in IL2 (129mm point blank and 90mm at 500m) will still ensure over 100mm up to about 350-400m so nothing suspicious from my games yesterday.

Now I don't have time or buddies to set up some extensive testings on a (preferably) laggy server with icons ON for seeing the exact shooting distances, to see how far the damage model holds up until some weird things happens.

 

But if you want to do so, just go for it ! it is the best possible way to put in some accurate and unbiased feedback to help the devs correct anything that might have slipped through beta testing.

This has already been done by I Fly Central. Close range shots are very inconsistent. Sometime 1 will kill a T34, sometimes more than 4-6 will be needed.

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14 minutes ago, SCG_Riksen said:

This has already been done by I Fly Central. Close range shots are very inconsistent. Sometime 1 will kill a T34, sometimes more than 4-6 will be needed.

 

I'm speaking specifically of the opposite case : T34 shooting on a Tiger.

Unless I've understood things incorrectly, Athlon is contesting the effectiveness of the Russian gun.

 

But for the opposite case you are talking about, I fly central video is 2 month old and at least 3 updates outdated. So everything has to be redone with the current version if you want to have infos that devs will consider worthy of looking at. I do have the same feeling that the 88mm is performing inconsistently at close range, but some extensive testing has to be done with the current 3.010c version and put in video format.

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51 minutes ago, 7./SchG2_v*Athlon said:

The T34 STZ same cannon 7.6 cm F34.

 

where are the historical data for TC?

I don't know what historical data is used by the 1C company for their models.  You are welcome to make a request. I wouldn't use the data from another game and suggest it would be sustainable. Because as already said War Thunder has his problems with correctness. Even if they throw repeatedly with some sources around themselves.

 

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1 hour ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

 

I'm speaking specifically of the opposite case : T34 shooting on a Tiger.

Unless I've understood things incorrectly, Athlon is contesting the effectiveness of the Russian gun.

 

But for the opposite case you are talking about, I fly central video is 2 month old and at least 3 updates outdated. So everything has to be redone with the current version if you want to have infos that devs will consider worthy of looking at. I do have the same feeling that the 88mm is performing inconsistently at close range, but some extensive testing has to be done with the current 3.010c version and put in video format.

 

In my experience (I always play tanks - as matter of fact I played yesterday) and nothing changed regarding the close range DM.

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The issue with T-34 and KV-1s using apc rounds are that theyw ere extremly rare and most russian tankers never ever got them, according to soviet veterans in several books.

Well this well known picture of how close some allied tanks need to get to take out a tiger frontally shows a T-34 85 so a T-34-76 would need to get even closer or as some books say: couldnt penetrate the front of a tiger:
jpeg&ignoreAspectRatio&resize=516%2B389&

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Yup ... way off in game as off now. Close range hits seems to be very random and the whole thing feels like a health bar. I'm putting TC to rest until a more realistic DM is implemented. It is just too frustrating at the moment when u work hard to get into a nice position, wait patiently for the perfect shot on the unsuspecting target, hit him from close range 2-3 times and he turns his guns on you and with a single hit knocks you out ... it just takes all the tactic and strategy away from the game.

Edited by SCG_Riksen
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9 hours ago, SCG_Riksen said:

Yup ... way off in game as off now. Close range hits seems to be very random and the whole thing feels like a health bar. I'm putting TC to rest until a more realistic DM is implemented. It is just too frustrating at the moment when u work hard to get into a nice position, wait patiently for the perfect shot on the unsuspecting target, hit him from close range 2-3 times and he turns his guns on you and with a single hit knocks you out ... it just takes all the tactic and strategy away from the game.

 

What ammo were you using by the way (just out of curiosity) ?

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23 minutes ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

 

What ammo were you using by the way (just out of curiosity) ?

 

Armour Piercing High Explosive round. I have now started to use the sub-caliber Armour Piercing Shells at close range to see if it makes a difference (so you can see, I even have time to change ammo type to shoot them 2-3 times before being spotted). Like I said, I'm happy to be destroyed with one shot by T34s at realistic ranges and angles but also expect the same when I hit them first in similar scenarios.

Edited by SCG_Riksen
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     I hereby invoke my internet-given right and privilege of talking through my hat (as they say in the southern U.S.A.) about a subject of which I have little personal knowledge and even less factual information; that is, the modeling of the armament in Tank Crew!

     Firstly, only two tanks have been modeled for Tank Crew (the Tiger and the KV-1) by the third party devs thus far. All the other tanks are carry overs from the no cost bonus add on to Great Battles flight sim and will be remodeled specifically for Tank Crew.

     Secondly, I would suggest that the so called problems with the T-34 versus Tiger are occurring because of the T-34 older armament modeling and will continue until the new remodeled T-34 is introduced into Tank Crew (Remember the machine gun fire sparking off the fabric wings when Flying Circus was introduced?). :umnik2:

Edited by Arfsix
Typing

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3 hours ago, Arfsix said:

     I hereby invoke my internet-given right and privilege of talking through my hat (as they say in the southern U.S.A.) about a subject of which I have little personal knowledge and even less factual information; that is, the modeling of the armament in Tank Crew!

     Firstly, only two tanks have been modeled for Tank Crew (the Tiger and the KV-1) by the third party devs thus far. All the other tanks are carry overs from the no cost bonus add on to Great Battles flight sim and will be remodeled specifically for Tank Crew.

     Secondly, I would suggest that the so called problems with the T-34 versus Tiger are occurring because of the T-34 older armament modeling and will continue until the new remodeled T-34 is introduced into Tank Crew (Remember the machine gun fire sparking off the fabric wings when Flying Circus was introduced?). :umnik2:

 

We know. TC is still in development and there is a lot to be tweaked. I just truly hope this is not the final DM we will get and have faith they will do an awesome job in that department once the full game is released.

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5 hours ago, SCG_Riksen said:

 

We know. TC is still in development and there is a lot to be tweaked. I just truly hope this is not the final DM we will get and have faith they will do an awesome job in that department once the full game is released. 

 

I agree, armor and penetration is THE ONE thing that needs to be dead on in a tank sim. With the game still being in alpha I am hopeful and also fairly confident they will get this fixed.

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Tiger is now very well protected.

 

 

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I've seen that too last time I played. The 88mms cannon of the tiger seems to be right now but the armor is exaggerated. I shot a tiger on its back from 100m last time I played three times (he was distracted shooting at someone else) and, although his engine was destoryed in the first hit, he was able to spot me after the third hit and kill me w one shot. I believe that from 100m, the t34 should be able to penetrate the rear armor and kill the crew inside but the tiger is just crazy resistant now ...

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, SCG_Riksen said:

I believe that from 100m, the t34 should be able to penetrate the rear armor and kill the crew inside but the tiger is just crazy resistant now …

 

Agreed... it appears some more tweaking is needed. :good:

Edited by Thad
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8 hours ago, SCG_Riksen said:

I've seen that too last time I played. The 88mms cannon of the tiger seems to be right now but the armor is exaggerated. I shot a tiger on its back from 100m last time I played three times (he was distracted shooting at someone else) and, although his engine was destoryed in the first hit, he was able to spot me after the third hit and kill me w one shot. I believe that from 100m, the t34 should be able to penetrate the rear armor and kill the crew inside but the tiger is just crazy resistant now ...

What exactly did you hit? The rear turret or the back of the tank with engine and fuel tanks?

I'm assuming you hit the engine area since you aid the engine was destroyed, if that the case then it makes perfect sense that the crew stayed alive.

 

If you meant it should pen the rear turret armor then yes you are correct, it should definitely be no problem to pen the turret rear at that range. However, just because you pen the turret doesn't necessarily mean you kill the crew.

 

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Nice video......amazing fighting by both crews!  More amazing the T34 headlight was not shot out though.....now THAT really needs to get addressed.

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12 hours ago, SCG_Riksen said:

I've seen that too last time I played. The 88mms cannon of the tiger seems to be right now but the armor is exaggerated. I shot a tiger on its back from 100m last time I played three times (he was distracted shooting at someone else) and, although his engine was destoryed in the first hit, he was able to spot me after the third hit and kill me w one shot. I believe that from 100m, the t34 should be able to penetrate the rear armor and kill the crew inside but the tiger is just crazy resistant now ...

 

Must have been some of those superman Germans in the tank to hand crank the turret around as the engine had to be running for the power traverse to be used. The turret was not balanced and any hand traversing if the tank was not level was hard.

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