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Elem

No credit for a Taran kill

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So I brought down 4 HS-129B with the onboard ammo but the 5th I got with a Taran attack. It killed my engine but I was still able to glide back to make a perfect landing and get a mission success message, but only credit for 4 kills. Should we get credit for Taran attacks?

 

Also, has anyone been able to use the Jump to last Mission option? I don't seem to be able to select it?

 

Taran.jpg

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Yes.

 

We should also see differences between 'claimed', 'confirmed' and 'actual' kills...

 

We should also see partial or shared kills for the Commonwealth pilots...

 

...maybe in some future overhaul?

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2 hours ago, Elem said:

Should we get credit for Taran attacks?

 

I vote for "yes". After all it was a historical tactic eventually.

 

Then if Taran attack gets transformed in "kamikaze" attack, it may be another story..

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Since the VVS awarded a credited victory for taran, and a few pilots actually turned it into a viable tactic and scored multiple kills that way, we probably should, but it comes with some issues, since it would mean, that accidental mid-air collisions (which as we know happens much more frequently than we'd like) would count as friendly fire kills.

Edited by Finkeren
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6 hours ago, Solmyr said:

 

I vote for "yes". After all it was a historical tactic eventually.

 

Then if Taran attack gets transformed in "kamikaze" attack, it may be another story..

 

every single MP server has kamikaze's as of today. This will just give them a real legitimacy. 😄  Posthumous awards would all be received with a solemn and a meditative "ohmmmm".

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16 hours ago, Finkeren said:

Since the VVS awarded a credited victory for taran, and a few pilots actually turned it into a viable tactic and scored multiple kills that way, we probably should, but it comes with some issues, since it would mean, that accidental mid-air collisions (which as we know happens much more frequently than we'd like) would count as friendly fire kills.

Yes, that was my concern. How could the sim differentiate between a deliberate act and an accident? May not be possible.

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As mostly a bomber and CAS online pilot, I fear this would only encourage ramming online. But from historical point of view I vote yes.

 

There is another issue related to this - usually propellers were much sturdier than tail surfaces. There were numerous instances where the victor destroyed enemy aircraft by chopping the tail surfaces without destroying his own prop in return and kept his aircraft flyable. I don't think this is modelled in our sim - I'm under impression that prop gets damaged instantly at the slightest physical contact to anything. Might be wrong though.

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39 minutes ago, Elem said:

Yes, that was my concern. How could the sim differentiate between a deliberate act and an accident? May not be possible.

 

Well it just assumed a collision with a friendly is just a collision. Hit the enemy: get credited, hit a friendly.. well it wasn't your fault was it? :biggrin:

 

This shouldn't really be too hard to program (differentiating). Coding that damage is inflicted by collision and allocating it to your plane might be considerably harder. But as we don't know the code: who knows.

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1 hour ago, CrazyDuck said:

There is another issue related to this - usually propellers were much sturdier than tail surfaces. There were numerous instances where the victor destroyed enemy aircraft by chopping the tail surfaces without destroying his own prop in return and kept his aircraft flyable. I don't think this is modelled in our sim - I'm under impression that prop gets damaged instantly at the slightest physical contact to anything. Might be wrong though.

 

Good point. The propeller has been known to literally saw through an enemy wing or tail section. Haven't seen enough detailed mid-air collisions in-game to know if this is possible or not! However, as you said, it seems the propeller bends or breaks on first impact. Such detail would be hard to model though, I bet. 

 

This is how you saw off a LA5 wing with one's propeller in a mid-air collision: 

 

 

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins

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1 hour ago, CrazyDuck said:

I don't think this is modelled in our sim - I'm under impression that prop gets damaged instantly at the slightest physical contact to anything. Might be wrong though.

 

Let's try to mow a wood and see what happens ! ☺️

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22 hours ago, Solmyr said:

 

Then if Taran attack gets transformed in "kamikaze" attack, it may be another story..

 

And you know it would....

 

15 hours ago, moosya said:

 

every single MP server has kamikaze's as of today. This will just give them a real legitimacy. 😄  Posthumous awards would all be received with a solemn and a meditative "ohmmmm".

 

And you would encourage more of it?   Servers full of kamikaze airquakers are a big turn off to me.  Stuff like this just dumbs everything down for everyone.  This kind of playing style became disturbingly popular in some of the 'daily' Rise of Flight servers, and it was one of the factors that ended up driving some of the more serious players away (leading to near empty servers), or to DiD tournament events only.

 

This is exactly why deliberate ramming should -not- be encouraged by legitimizing it.  Stuff like that can only serve as an encouragement for trolls masquerading as virtual fighter pilots.  And lets face it, If you are coming in on a firing pass, getting hits, and oops, you accidentally (?)collided with the target, you're probably going to get credit anyway, because you were nailing him with your guns first.  That happens a lot as it is, without any changes to the scoring system needed, so call it a 'Taran' if you wish, and be happy.

Edited by SeaSerpent

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On 1/11/2019 at 8:38 PM, Solmyr said:

 

I vote for "yes". After all it was a historical tactic eventually.

 

Then if Taran attack gets transformed in "kamikaze" attack, it may be another story..

 

Yeah, in the end you guys seem to be right ; In a perfect world we could get them counted as kills only when it deserves to.

 

But in our world we would need to forget that idea that is only for a very tiny amount of occuracies among a big number of shot down planes.

So that I change my opinion.

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Perhaps the aircraft that got rammed should also be credited with a kill.  As technically they do destroy an enemy.

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4 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Perhaps the aircraft that got rammed should also be credited with a kill.  As technically they do destroy an enemy.

 

A succesful taran doesn’t necessarilly result in the destruction of the attacking aircraft. Take Khlobystov’s infamous action in spring 1942, where he shot down one German fighter and having run out of ammo proceded to ram two more with his right wing, destroying both, after which he returned home and landed with a good portion of his right wing missing.

 

khlo3.JPG

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23 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

And you would encourage more of it?   Servers full of kamikaze airquakers are a big turn off to me.  Stuff like this just dumbs everything down for everyone.  This kind of playing style became disturbingly popular in some of the 'daily' Rise of Flight servers, and it was one of the factors that ended up driving some of the more serious players away (leading to near empty servers), or to DiD tournament events only.

 

This is exactly why deliberate ramming should -not- be encouraged by legitimizing it.  Stuff like that can only serve as an encouragement for trolls masquerading as virtual fighter pilots.  And lets face it, If you are coming in on a firing pass, getting hits, and oops, you accidentally (?)collided with the target, you're probably going to get credit anyway, because you were nailing him with your guns first.  That happens a lot as it is, without any changes to the scoring system needed, so call it a 'Taran' if you wish, and be happy.

 

 

my tongue in cheek response was pointing out the lack of need for implementing the taran credit system. You hit the nail on the head. The airquake style of play is extremely annoying. There's a noob play style on icon-enabled servers where people just head on in to each other all day long. And with the mature/veteran players, whom I presume are just 'gamers', I noticed a very specific 'chicken' maneuver where they set themselves for a head on and then try to swerve away at the last millisecond with guns blazing. Sort of a "when all else fails ram!"Noticed it on all serves, including TAW. Unfortunately, these are the realities of the computer gaming in general.

Edited by moosya

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4 hours ago, moosya said:

 

 

my tongue in cheek response was pointing out the lack of need for implementing the taran credit system. You hit the nail on the head. The airquake style of play is extremely annoying. There's a noob play style on icon-enabled servers where people just head on in to each other all day long. And with the mature/veteran players, whom I presume are just 'gamers', I noticed a very specific 'chicken' maneuver where they set themselves for a head on and then try to swerve away at the last millisecond with guns blazing. Sort of a "when all else fails ram!"Noticed it on all serves, including TAW. Unfortunately, these are the realities of the computer gaming in general.

 

My bad; I missed the snark and thought you were being serious.

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It would be good for career mode, bad for MP, and probably a can of worms not worth opening to split the two. Maybe there would be an easy way to add an appropriate medal to career mode for it which would be cool (even if it doesn't add a kill to your score). 

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