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Andre0815

BoS - Cannot shot down planes

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Hello,

 

I am new to BoS an have the problem that I cannot shot down airplanes. I had some dogfights where I shoted a long while with the MG. Even targeting a bit beside the target plane does not bring results. 

Can annybody tell me whats the trick in shooting planes down.. Currently I play FastMissions ...

 

Thanks A

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Hi Andre, I suggest tha you enable the 'aiming aid' in the options (I can't remember the exact name of this option. It's the third or fourth option on the left column)

this will display an additional cue on the visor so that you know exactly where to aim when doing deflection shooting

Really useful when beginning with ww2 dogfights!

 

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13 minutes ago, Andre0815 said:

 

Can annybody tell me whats the trick in shooting planes down..

 

 

 

Practice

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Salutations,

 

Once you get close enough, don't always shoot directly at the enemy craft... shoot ahead to where it is going. Try leading the target when circumstances permit.

 

SeaSepent is correct. Practice improves results. :salute:

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Posted (edited)

Youtube has a lot of valuable information for newcomers to the genre, use it.

 

The most important thing you can do now is allow yourself the time to learn this stuff. No Hartmann fell from the sky, you know:)

Edited by Mauf
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Posted (edited)

Hartmann was a quite bad pilot at his debuts.. 😄

 

Don't forget that certain weapons are more or less only to disturb and annoy your opponent if you can get only a few projectiles into him from time to time. If you want these weapons to be efficient, you need a constantly efficient aiming, in a stable and precise way, so that your ammo shoot the same area of the plane.

Edited by Solmyr

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Honestly the AI fights in quick missions can sometimes be harder than online because they fly in a constantly curving flight path that often requires you to shoot with the enemy plane at least partially obscured behind the nose to get hits.

For early practice, fly against flights of bombers set to rookie with no ammo for their guns. Practice coming at them from different angles and estimate lead. Then move on to maneuvering targets.

Also the deflection shooting guides posted above are a godsend.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mauf said:

No Hartmann fell from the sky, you know:)

 

 

To be fair, when you adopt Hartmann's credo of "get close .. and when you think you're too close - get closer", you can do without deflection shooting... ;)

 

1 hour ago, Andre0815 said:

I am new to BoS an have the problem that I cannot shot down airplanes. I had some dogfights where I shoted a long while with the MG. Even targeting a bit beside the target plane does not bring results. 

Can annybody tell me whats the trick in shooting planes down.. Currently I play FastMissions ...

 

Kinda hard to know what the problem is with this description. Do you have any way of filming yourself while dogfighting (using Bandicam, Shadowplay or Fraps for example) and uploading the clip to youtube?

 

Besides that and speaking from my own experience when I started out:

1. You probably open fire too early. Any distance greater than 300 meters is usually a waste of time/ammo in fighter vs. fighter combat.

2. You probably don't concentrate your fire on one part of the enemy plane. 10 hits into the wingroot will have much better results than 10 hits spread all over the entire plane.

3. If you fire MG and cannon at the same time, you might mistake MG-hits for cannon hits. MG and cannon have different trajectories/ballistics, so it's entirely possible to hit with MG and miss with your cannon at the same time (if you fire all weapons together and depending on which plane you are using).

4. As others have said: You usually need to lead your target - meaning you have to aim where the target will be when your bullets get there. They're no laserguns so the bullets/shells need time to travel downrange towards your target. If you aim at the target while it is manoeuvring relative to you, your bullets will only hit the empty space where the target used to be.

5. Even if you can't upload clips, it might be a good idea to record your own missions in-game and then study the replay to see what happened from an external point of view.

 

Other than that: Practice... a lot.

 

And if you like reading:

 

513P2687GSL._SX314_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/Fighter-Combat-Maneuvering-Robert-Shaw/dp/0870210599

 

S.

 

 

Edited by 1Sascha
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Posted (edited)

Begin by having 1 or 2 Junkers 52,without a reargunner,and start trying too shoot them down.Then Take 1or 2 Il2 Sturmovik early 1941 version without a reargunturret then  shoot them down,Then finally you take 1 fighterplane and try to shoot it down,After that you play with a squad mates - AI say 4 vs 4 and try a bigger fight.

Edited by The_Ant

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15 minutes ago, 1Sascha said:

To be fair, when you adopt Hartmann's credo of "get close .. and when you think you're too close - get closer", you can do without deflection shooting... ;)

 

 

Since all non-VR users have owl capabilities in-game, his tactics don't work in game anyway 😉

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1 minute ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

Since all non-VR users have owl capabilities in-game, his tactics don't work in game anyway 😉

 

Not to mention the bionic eyes with built-in zoom.. 😄

 

S.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, 1Sascha said:

 

And if you like reading:

 

<Fighter Combat, by Robert L. Shaw>

 

 

Arguably, the *other* Robert Shaw would be a much better teacher for a newbie:  Taka Taka Taka.  With him, you go from being a Spring Chicken to a Shiitehawk in one easy lesson. 

Edited by SeaSerpent
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Set my convergence to 150m and try to be patient.  Let the enemy aircraft fill the sight before using short bursts of mg or cannon on them, leading the target a little in the direction they are flying.

 

I found the waiting part to be especially beneficial, before I would try to shoot planes down at further range and it was pathetic.  Getting up close is just way more effective.  I just finished a flight in my p40 where I shredded 5 He111's in a bomber intercept.  Those 6 .50cals are great.

 

Ride the rudder and constantly adjust your flight path as you come up on the bombers to throw their gunners and then when they fill the sight, short bursts on the engines or top forward position where the pilot would be on the fuselage. Il2's they are a different beast and can really soak up what my 109 F4 can dish out.  Flip side is when in one, you have a greater chance of surviving hits, I've returned to base with my wings like Swiss cheese and still landed. 😀

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Hi Andre,

 

Did I understand you correctly - you have trouble hitting enemy aircraft with your weapons, right?

In this case sadly there is no other way but practice, like other chaps already covered.

 

If you have some other problem, describe it specifically.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

Honestly the AI fights in quick missions can sometimes be harder than online because they fly in a constantly curving flight path that often requires you to shoot with the enemy plane at least partially obscured behind the nose to get hits.

 

True ! Reading the OP, it's the 1st thing that came to my mind. 

 

4 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

Not to mention the bionic eyes with built-in zoom.. 😄

 

I guess he was refering to that aspect yet.

Not to start the good ole' debate, but still it's a very much disputable point. I wish I had some very correct, normal eyes, which is not the case. But if I had, I'd really much prefer to be in a real cockpit from a real aircraft with a real reality around me than being in front of a damn stupid 24" screen associated with a TIR system and zoom in zoom out buttons when it comes to spotting, identifying and aiming...

 

6 hours ago, Andre0815 said:

I had some dogfights where I shoted a long while with the MG.

 

1) If you can, get closer.

2) Don't open fire unless you know you have about 1/2 sec efficient attack. Sustain your efficient fire.

3) Concentrate your fire (and set your guns convergence according to you).

4) Try to focus on the most relevant places to aim : engine, cockpit, fuel tanks...

 

5) Generic advice when you're a beginner : when you think your deflection estimation is good, add some more. 95% of the beginner's fails when attacking come from not enough deflection estimation.

 

Then, when you get your first kills, start to do the same but with a countdown in your head : it's the number of seconds you can focus entirely on your target without being shot down yourself by the guy who got your 6. Because there is one. When the countdown reaches 0, you HAVE to be clearing off there. ☺️

Edited by Solmyr

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10 hours ago, Solmyr said:

I guess he was refering to that aspect yet.

I wasn't aware that owls have zoom-lenses built into their eyes. I took it to reference the fact that owls can turn their heads 180° and look directly behind themselves.

 

 

Oh well... :)

 

 

S.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

I took it to reference the fact that owls can turn their heads 180° and look directly behind themselves.

 

Ah ok :) But in the context of the Hartmann's maxim... I'm not sure. Or did you mount some MGs in your tail ?? 😂

Reminds me another ace's anecdote : Once Clostermann was in a tough situation, trying to escape from a German pilot in his 6 (I'm not sure but I believe his plane was damaged). He was flying straight to his base and was really worried by that guy he couldn't get rid of. Suddenly he got an idea : firing. Because of the flames, the german seemed to believe he was riding the 1st AC ever being equipped with a tail weapon, firing backward, and he broke the pursuit. 😅

Edited by Solmyr

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dont shoot him just form in his six at 5 m and get on his nerves

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21 hours ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

Since all non-VR users have owl capabilities in-game, his tactics don't work in game anyway 😉

I feel I am called a cheater by not using VR 😝

 

but honestly is NON vr / vr so different that there should be special servers for each?

in my trials of it I find it tempting only for the Po 2 in this game. But enough for buying a used one

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1 hour ago, LuseKofte said:

I feel I am called a cheater by not using VR 😝

 

but honestly is NON vr / vr so different that there should be special servers for each?

in my trials of it I find it tempting only for the Po 2 in this game. But enough for buying a used one

 

I do feel at a disadvantage most of the time in VR. I am far more easily taken by surprise rather than the one doing the surprising, but in spite of that. I wouldn't fly IL2 any other way. The immersion it brings is really addictive.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, =11=Herne said:

I do feel at a disadvantage most of the time in VR.

 

Why not use this then ? (When server allows it)

 

Edited by Solmyr

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On 1/5/2019 at 1:19 PM, Andre0815 said:

Hello,

 

I am new to BoS an have the problem that I cannot shot down airplanes. I had some dogfights where I shoted a long while with the MG. Even targeting a bit beside the target plane does not bring results. 

Can annybody tell me whats the trick in shooting planes down.. Currently I play FastMissions ...

 

Thanks A

 

From someone who is not a very good shot, get really close.  My score improved markedly when I started disciplining myself to hold fire until I was very close.  Practice a bit in the QMB to get the hang of proper firing range.  

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1 hour ago, Solmyr said:

 

Why not use this then ? (When server allows it)

 

 

Doesn't help for checking 6 and alike...

Spotting is also harder because aircraft are often hidden at subpixel basis

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Posted (edited)

Hello, Sorry for be back so late.

OK, I want to understand aiming aid option with fighting against non maneuvering bombers. Where can i select mission against bombers ? On Quck Mission -Stanlingrad Summer map I don't see bombers on the map.  Yes I am a newbie :)

 

 

Edited by Andre0815
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27 minutes ago, Andre0815 said:

Where can i select mission against bombers

You can select the certain planes in a 1v1 a.i. dogfight. You'll see a pull down bar that shows all the types of planes your a.i. enemy can fly. This includes bombers as well as fighters.

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57 minutes ago, Andre0815 said:

Hello, Sorry for be back so late.

OK, I want to understand aiming aid option with fighting against non maneuvering bombers. Where can i select mission against bombers ? On Quck Mission -Stanlingrad Summer map I don't see bombers on the map.  Yes I am a newbie :)

 

 

 

Start with target drones (2 engine bombers) at the lowest AI-Level and then rinse and repeat until you get a hang of it. For the start arm your Messer with the 20mm gondolas. Then increase the AI Level of your enemies and maybe change the enemy plane types. Go in close from 6-o-clock for the start, aim for the engines and set your convergence range to 300metres or less. Once your aim gets better you can change that to 400 metres. You need practice, practice, practice. Increase difficulty notch by notch. As the saying goes "Es ist noch kein Meister vom Himmel gefallen" - "So far no master has fallen from the sky!" Meaning: Only practice will get you to the master skill.

 

 

Unbenannt.jpg

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Yea I shooted my first bomber down. Is the aiming aid option the resulting red point leading the target ? So that I must targeting this red point ?

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3 minutes ago, Andre0815 said:

Yea I shooted my first bomber down. Is the aiming aid option the resulting red point leading the target ? So that I must targeting this red point ?

 

Exactly that is where you need to aim at. Keep practicing. If you feel confident enough try practicing deflection shooting with the aiming tool. Sooner or later you don´t need it anymore, but it is a great help to learn aiming.

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Posted (edited)
On 1/6/2019 at 9:57 AM, LuseKofte said:

I feel I am called a cheater by not using VR 😝

 

but honestly is NON vr / vr so different that there should be special servers for each?

in my trials of it I find it tempting only for the Po 2 in this game. But enough for buying a used one

 

 

Nah, you can see better in VR. Dots are bigger. You can see around frames.

 

They just adopted new tech early so suffer from current VR limitations. Field of view and resolution are not ready if you want to see detail and have peripheral vision. They have to crank themselves around in their seat much further than a person would have to in real life and what you can see in VR is not as clear as our monitors. Something to keep the lenses from fogging up would be nice too.

 

Being critical of others setup while adopting tech early is a fault of too many VR players. When VR is ready it will be the default gear like track IR but until then it is a handicap. A really cool and immersive handicap.

Edited by 7./JG26_Smokewinder

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My advice would be: pick an easy to fly aircraft with center mounted weaponry with good balistics. E.g. Yak 1. Then fly singleplayer single missions and try to hit certain areas of aircraft. E.g. take Yak1 against flight of unarmed transport planes and try to consistently shoot it's engine, control surfaces, radiators and pilot. Practice makes perfect.

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On 1/5/2019 at 3:14 PM, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

Since all non-VR users have owl capabilities in-game, his tactics don't work in game anyway 😉

I wouldn't even call VR a handicap. I wish I had the same 3D vision as them, and could see around frames and the nose of the aircraft like they can. So while they have to turn their head a bit more than TrackIR users, VR also has the 3D vision advantage. Although I admit, I'm waiting for VR to improve before jumping in. What ever short-comings there may be with VR, it should be expected by early adopters. That's just common sense I would think.

 

I'd say the pros and cons even each other out. Mostly though, I wonder what kind of excuses people are even reaching for by bringing this up.

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Posted (edited)

I have the problem that the bombers fly me away. They are a bit faster than me. After shoting down the first the rest 7 bombers are out of range.

I fly "IL-2 Mod 1942" against bombers "Ju 88 A-4".

Can anybody tell me a plane that is faster than this bomber ?

Edited by Andre0815

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16 minutes ago, Andre0815 said:

I have the problem that the bombers fly me away. They are a bit faster than me. After shoting down the first the rest 7 bombers are out of range.

I fly "IL-2 Mod 1942" against bombers "Ju 88 A-4".

Can anybody tell me a plane that is faster than this bomber ?

 

Th IL-2 is a ground attack aircraft. Any of the fighters except the BoM I-16 should be able to tackle a Ju-88.

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24 minutes ago, Andre0815 said:

I have the problem that the bombers fly me away. They are a bit faster than me. After shoting down the first the rest 7 bombers are out of range.

I fly "IL-2 Mod 1942" against bombers "Ju 88 A-4".

Can anybody tell me a plane that is faster than this bomber ?

 

Since you're pretty new to Il2 it might be good to learn a relatively gentle plane and then go from there.  I fly mostly German but my understanding is that the Yak is very pleasant to fly.  Pretty fast, very maneuverable, and with good handling characteristics.  Not heavily armed to I go back to my first response - get close before you start shooting.  

 

When attacking bombers the engines tend to be the best target.  The fuselage will absorb a lot of damage so shooting directly into the rear of the target might not bring it down.  If you do target the fuselage then firing at the front (where all the crew is) will require you to be somewhat above or below the target.

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The yak's armament is not the best for a newer player imo, you dont have much to miss with.  I'd reccomend a fighter like the la5, fw190, or bf109 where you have more firing time.

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