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stupor-mundi

Gyro sensor based head tracking hardware?

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Hi all.

 

I currently use Opentrack with Delanclip and a PS3 Eye camera. I've now concluded that the difficulties I'm having have to do with the geometric limitations of this approach.

 

I have my face closer to the monitor (27") than most setups. The camera, in the center, on top of the monitor, has to look down quite a bit. When I move my head closer to the screeen, in order to have the Y input, occlusion quickly occurs (2 LEDs get too close together, tracking stops). Apart from occlusion, when close to the screen, with some headmovements, some of the LEDs are outside of the camera's view pyramid. I used to have the camera off to one side on top of the screen so that it was centered on the clip, but realized I had to move it to the center in order to straighten out the Y head movement. Now the occlusion and clipping issues are worse.

 

I could switch to Trackhat, but I think I'd still be fighting with occlusion and clipping, just at different head positions. Also I wouldn't want an actual hat which would interfere a bit with my headphones, so it would have to be something that has the hat geometry without being a hat, i.e. a horizontal clip onto the headphones.

 

So I'm wondering what the situation is nowadays with gyro sensor based solutions. I don't want to use my phone (which is large), rather I'd like something that's permanently stuck to the headphones. Could be wired or wireless.

 

I've just looked at the EDtracker site, those are currently sold out. Are there similar trackers that people have tried and found to be good? And would OpenTrack work with them or what software would be used instead?

 

I'm not too keen on having to assemble/solder something, a product-type thing would be preferred. There is a wireless one "Nx Head Tracker", has anyone tried it?

 

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6 hours ago, stupor-mundi said:

Hi all.

 

(2 LEDs get too close together, tracking stops).

 

I know this does not relate to your question, but what size are your LED's showing in OT? 

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19 hours ago, No_85_Gramps said:

I know this does not relate to your question, but what size are your LED's showing in OT? 

From around 11px to around 13.5px

They could be a fair bit bigger, if I hadn't toned them down quite a bit using the filters.

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18 minutes ago, stupor-mundi said:

From around 11px to around 13.5px

They could be a fair bit bigger, if I hadn't toned them down quite a bit using the filters.

Try to get them as small as possible w/o losing the track. The smaller they are the less likely you'll experience the occlusion. I sit about 2 feet way from my screen, and I have the pixel size ranging from around 8 to 9.5. 

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12 minutes ago, No_85_Gramps said:

Try to get them as small as possible w/o losing the track. The smaller they are the less likely you'll experience the occlusion. I sit about 2 feet way from my screen, and I have the pixel size ranging from around 8 to 9.5. 

I've dimmed them quite a lot, not sure I can get them much smaller. I'm about 1 1/3 feet from the screen, so I suppose that's in relation.
But good idea. Maybe if I apply a blur filter, and then dim them more, I might get them smaller.

 

 

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2 hours ago, stupor-mundi said:

I've dimmed them quite a lot, not sure I can get them much smaller. I'm about 1 1/3 feet from the screen, so I suppose that's in relation.
But good idea. Maybe if I apply a blur filter, and then dim them more, I might get them smaller.

 

 

You do have some direct control over the pixel display size in the point tracker tab. 

pointtracker..JPG

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On 1/3/2019 at 9:52 PM, stupor-mundi said:

when close to the screen, with some headmovements, some of the LEDs are outside of the camera's view pyramid.

Even if you set the camera's lense to wide view (blue dot)? The red dot setting (normal view) is only good for viewing distances over 2 feet in my experience.

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On 1/5/2019 at 1:34 AM, No_85_Gramps said:

You do have some direct control over the pixel display size in the point tracker tab

 

I've set those values to bracket the pixel sizes that actually occur, from Opentrack's point of view. I.e. trying to force the max value smaller than the max that really occurs doesn't help.

In the end the occlusion that occurs has to do with the actual size of the LEDs in relation to the overall size of the clip (or rather the LED locations on it).

Even lowering the threshhold doesn't help once it's low enough to prevent glare. Once the glare is gone, you have the actual size of the LED, as projected, and lowering the threshhold further just gives you something dimmer, not smaller.

That's why I mentioned blurring as a possible solution (speculative, haven't tried it).

----------

Regarding the view pyramid:

1 hour ago, sniperton said:

Even if you set the camera's lense to wide view (blue dot)? The red dot setting (normal view) is only good for viewing distances over 2 feet in my experience.

I might play around with that some more. I'm not a huge fan of the wide setting because on my PS Eye the optical quality of the wide setting is quite a bit worse than the narrow.

Considering the wider pyramid, it will help a lot with the head position further from the screen, and only a bit when bending forward.

And the question or camera orientation, and what xyz are, becomes even more important in that regard.

My camera is center, top of the screen. To best have the clip visible in the head forward position, I would angle it strongly downward and a bit sideward.

But there is no place in Opentrack where you enter those angle values, and I'm not sure the 'calibration' step informs it of those (it might).

So I have the suspicion that xyz might be from the camera's point of view, no matter how it's angled (which would be bad).

 

All those issues lead me to consider a gyro based solution, where you're not having to deal with such a view pyramid, or orientation issues...

 

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Sorry it didn't help. Only other idea would be to make a clip and increase the spacing of the LED's. I can understand why you are looking for an alternative.

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I switched from TrackIr to EDTRacker because I found it had better response. TrackIR works really well just looking around but I found that if I whipped my head around fast, like after a head-on pass,  it often got confused for a second or two before  sorting itself out and that is enough to lose you the fight as you try to re-acquire your enemy.    EDTRacker responds instantly with no glitches.    I also used to have problems with TrackIR when Flying during a  sunny day as any light coming through the curtains could confuse it. 

The 'downside' of EDTracker is that it only has 4 degrees of freedom but I got round that by using Opentrack alongside it.  Tilting my head to one side now moves my head sideways which was no loss because I always disabled head tilt on TrackIr anyway.  Looking down past a certain angle lowers my heads vertical position as well as moving it forward which works really well as the only reason to look down like that is to see your instruments so lowering and moving forward is just what you need.  Tilting my head up also raises my head slightly to look over the nose and the effect is too small to be noticeable when you are actually looking up at an enemy overhead as they are further away so moving 4 inches closer is nothing..  

 

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I just ordered EDTracker, and look fwd into giving it a ride.

 

Any recommendations regarding setup for IL-2 Forgotten Batles ( actually, together with Condorsoaring 2 the only two sims I presenty use )  ?

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15 minutes ago, jcomm said:

I just ordered EDTracker, and look fwd into giving it a ride.

 

Any recommendations regarding setup for IL-2 Forgotten Batles ( actually, together with Condorsoaring 2 the only two sims I presenty use )  ?

Set it up in OpenTrack. Il-2 Forgotten Battles doesn't work well using just the EDTracker input since EDTracker sets itself up as a virtual joystick axis. With OpenTrack it basically reads the EDTracker like a trackIR device. Forgotten Battles headtracking curves work a little differently from new Il-2, the input limits are different I think, so be prepared to play around a little bit.

There's tutorials for working with OpenTrack using EDTracker on their site, and quite a few youtube videos on how to set up 'Pseudo-6DoF' using EDtracker and OpenTrack. Here's a good basic setup guide. http://www.edtracker.org.uk/index.php/using/opentrack

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@RedKestrel, I actually meant IL-2 Battle of series - not the old IL2.

 

Are these new series readily compatible with the EDTRacker SW ?

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5 minutes ago, jcomm said:

@RedKestrel, I actually meant IL-2 Battle of series - not the old IL2.

 

Are these new series readily compatible with the EDTRacker SW ?

Hmmm, not sure. in old Il-2 there was a limit on number of input devices so that caused problems with just straight up using EDTracker, so I ended up setting it up in OpenTrack.

 I've always just gone through OpenTrack to be honest, as it allows you to do things like map tilting your head to sideways head movement and other such things to make up for the lack of 6DoF. 

The EDTracker software lets you do some calibration, tweaking etc for the device. But generally the software itself doesnt really interact with any games. EDTracker gets detected as a generic USB joystick by Windows so if your game allows you to use a stick to look around, you can set up the EDTracker in the game's settings to do that. 

I'm not sure if Il-2 allows you to map a joystick to looking around in that way but I suppose you could try.

In any case if you can't make it work that way OpenTrack does a really good job and I'm pretty sure it  gets detected by Il-2 automatically if you have tracking On. Unless you've got a reason not to use OpenTrack I think its the best option to get the most from the EDTracker.
 

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Opentrack can use the oculus headset as a trackir and it works amazing but having the oculus on your head is not a solution, I wonder why somebody doesn't make a headset with cameras that can do like windows mixed reality style tracking with two little cameras, or even just have the sensors like on the rift. I made my clip a little small and it drives me nuts sometimes. Need to order that delan clip but its like 50 bucks after the conversion rate and it takes like a month to ship here.

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Posted (edited)

Getting the sensors far apart is a good idea and helps the tracker to be precise.

I used rigid plastic tubing and zip ties, USB powered LED's, PS3 camera and Opentrack software. This is the second headset, original died but the head tracker moved over to the new one and still works great. The tubes are just over 6" long and not quite in my peripheral vision.

 

Same sensor model as the Trackhat but without the hat however you do need a headset that is the right design to support the sensors.

headtracker_zps4fi1lhkh.jpg

Edited by DD_Perfesser

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