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Dutch2

Advice needed: The best i7 CPU

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It seems my sons PC is going KO. So as usual my old rig (i7-7700k) is going to my son. To be prepared I’m orientating for a new system. I did read Ferris reply in this forum; the whole AMD series is not suited for VR, so I geuss it will be the Intel series. 

The new i9-9900k is rather expensive, but the i7-8086k, i7-8700k and the new i7-9700k is more nearer to my budget.  The 9700k en 8700k are more a less the same priced while the 8086k is something like €40,- more. 

Pure based on performance for only BoX in VR, what would be the best performer. 

 

Edited by Dutch2
8060 —> 8086

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the i9-9900K will be more difficult to overclock to 5.0 or above, so not worth if your only purpose is IL-2 VR.

 

As said above the best performance/price choice would be i-5 9600K. In theory, it will be a bit easier to overclock than i7-9700K. Regardless of price I would go to a i5-9600K if I would upgrade my PC today.

 

Both 9600K and 9700K incorporate soldered thermal interface, so heat is evacuated better than in 8th gen CPUs. The 8th gen CPUs has to be delided to have better heat dissipation.

 

Look at this post: 

 

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I recommend a I7 8700K (6 cores, 12 threads ) because the I5's drops performance at some moments.

I believe that 4 or 6 cores isn't enough in 2020 or above.

 

https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3407-intel-i5-9600k-cpu-review-vs-2700-2600-8700k

 

As I7 9700k has 8 cores and 8 threads, the next Intel I5 generation can beat it.

If I'm right, the next I5 will be equivalent the I7 9700 with 8 cores/8 threads to compete with AMD processors

I haven't property to speak about heat dissipation, overheating or even overclocking as our friend Chili but that is my suggestion.

Edited by 3./JG15_HansPhilipp

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1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

the i9-9900K will be more difficult to overclock to 5.0 or above, so not worth if your only purpose is IL-2 VR.

 

As said above the best performance/price choice would be i-5 9600K. In theory, it will be a bit easier to overclock than i7-9700K. Regardless of price I would go to a i5-9600K if I would upgrade my PC today.

 

Both 9600K and 9700K incorporate soldered thermal interface, so heat is evacuated better than in 8th gen CPUs. The 8th gen CPUs has to be delided to have better heat dissipation.

 

 

Based on some reports I have seen, does not appear all that difficult to overclock the i9 9900k to 5.0 GHz. 

Whenever I can get the motherboard I want for it, I will certainly be finding out for myself.

 

I agree though, for just IL-2 in VR it is probably overkill.

I myself though would go with at least an i7, especially if one is like me and only builds a new rig every 5 years or so.

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Will report soon (ish) when I get my 9600k up and running, hope to get it running at a steady 5.2ghz...silicon lottery and all but my thinking was regarding thermals.. IL-2 and all programs I use will barely (or not) use or load  all  6 cores and certainly no more, but that is just my personal use, other people may well get more benefit from an i7 with 8 + threads.. But = more heat (and noise) being in a country with quite high ambient temps makes me more sensitive to cooling issues and resultant noise (and expense to keep in check) 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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49 minutes ago, dburne said:

Based on some reports I have seen, does not appear all that difficult to overclock the i9 9900k to 5.0 GHz. 

Define difficult. It draws even more power than the 7900X at elevated clocks. Make sure you have a very, very potent cooler. From what I read, the CPU will draw ~180 Watts, the whole system >400 Watts at these clocks. But having a good OSU plus an 360 AIO (or better larger), I would expect it to readily hit 5 GHz.

 

That CPU having something better than cetaceum (or whatever Intel thought right us use so far) to transfer the heat to the spreader, it clocks much better than previous CPU‘s. At -230*C, (cooled with liquid helium) it even reaches 7.6 GHz. ;)

 

It is an expensive toy. The 9700K uses ~20% less power to reach the same frequencies, still giving you all the cores you need.

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24 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

 

It is an expensive toy. The 9700K uses ~20% less power to reach the same frequencies, still giving you all the cores you need.

 

That's ok, I happen to like expensive toys. A result of liking this hobby I guess lol.

;)

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For what its worth my i7-8086k is rock steady at 5.0Ghz with moderate temps thanks to Corsair H-00i liquid cooler.

I highly recommend this cooler. Now on sale for $90 - a $40 discount.

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Liquid-Cooling/Dual-Radiator-Liquid-Coolers/Hydro-Series™-H100i-Extreme-Performance-CPU-Cooler/p/CW-9060009-WW

 

I sold my GTX 1070 on ebay last night and my Zotec RTX 2080ti won't be here until late Friday. Grounded for 8 days.

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12 minutes ago, Gordon200 said:

For what its worth my i7-8086k is rock steady at 5.0Ghz with moderate temps thanks to Corsair H-00i liquid cooler.

I highly recommend this cooler. Now on sale for $90 - a $40 discount.

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Liquid-Cooling/Dual-Radiator-Liquid-Coolers/Hydro-Series™-H100i-Extreme-Performance-CPU-Cooler/p/CW-9060009-WW

 

I sold my GTX 1070 on ebay last night and my Zotec RTX 2080ti won't be here until late Friday. Grounded for 8 days.

 

Fully agree, that is what is on my current i7 4820K. It has been running for over 5 years now without a hitch.

I have a new Corsair H150i Pro sitting here in box awaiting on my new build.

Hoping the motherboard I want gets released next week. <fingers crossed>.

 

Congrats on the new card!

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1 hour ago, dburne said:

 

That's ok, I happen to like expensive toys. A result of liking this hobby I guess lol.

;)

Yep! ;)

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i7-9700k would be my recommendation. Alternatively, if you're will to wait for spring, the 7nm AMD Ryzen 3000 CPU's maybe worth a look. Leaks and rumor mill are all suggesting about 5GHz with some IPC improvements thrown in. If that's even half true, the 7nm Ryzens will have better single thread performance than anything Intel has out there in addition to having twice the core count and a lower price. But we'll have to wait and see how it turns out. I think the formal announcement is during CES, launch will be a few months later.

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On 1/3/2019 at 11:15 AM, 3./JG15_HansPhilipp said:

because the I5's drops performance at some moments.

 

It is interesting to hear that.  How did you tested?

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1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

It is interesting to hear that.  How did you tested?

Look at link in that post.

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1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

It is interesting to hear that.  How did you tested?

 

I suppose you refer to the link you were mentioning in your post from gamersnexus.

 

We can not extrapolate results from test performed in monitor with other games or benchmarks, which can depend less on single-core performance.

 

Reading that article, the i5-9600K have some few sporadic framedrops in FarCry5, only when oveclocked to 5.2. 

 

In other games like Assassins or F1 those drops are not observed. In fact, the i5-9600K is having a better 0.1%LOW a bit better than the i9-9900K at 5.2 GHz. 

What the writer doesn´t tell you is that it will be more difficult to bring your 9900K to 5.2GHz than your 9600K.

 

Here we look at IL-2 in VR, which is very dependent on single-thread performance. So those test might not be valid.

We should talk with that guy to include IL-2 VR in their test!  😉

 

 

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14 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

 

Here we look at IL-2 in VR, which is very dependent on single-thread performance. So those test might not be valid.

We should talk with that guy to include IL-2 VR in their test!  😉

 

Is this something the game designers/coders will resolve or improved in the future. 

 

Bob

14 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

 

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Just to tell about the i5-9600K (I just built a rig with it, specs at the end). I'm liking it a lot.

 

At the moment I got it to 4.8Ghz, Vcore at 1.212V (set at 1.210V on BIOS with LLC on Turbo). My temps are almost 70ºC even on all cores (average max) with a Zalman 9900 NT (I've been doing tests with coolers over the years and this cooler is on par with the Lucifer V2 and a couple degrees above the NH-U14S at 4.6Ghz with an i7-3770K above 1.320V).

 

It was at 1.200V and failed after 5 minutes. Then I up it to 1.210V and run a 10 minutes test - done with AIDA64 (CPU/FPS/Cache), which in temps is more or less equal to OCCTs CPU test. Later I'll run a longer test, but 010V is a good increment. Print of the test attached below. Of course voltage and temps will vary from chip to chip.

 

I have an Assassin II with Akasa Fans (Viper / Piranha), which makes it perform like a Noctua NH-D15, but my Corsair memories are too high for it to fit. It would probably give me more 5 or 6 degrees of head room (the Zalman cooler is a beast for its size). I intend to by a Cryorig Universal, which is on the same ballpark of the NH-D15. I was thinking about a custom water cooler or a 360mm AIO, but from the looks of it, I won't need it to get to 5Ghz, which is my goal. But after 4.7Ghz the increment in voltage was more pronounced, then I might not get to 5Ghz with an air cooler and stay below 75/80ºC during the summer.

 

But this is just initial tests, but I don't intend to use Prime or anything. I render some videos with Nero 12 and the temps are on the same ballpark of AIDA64. But from who came from an i7-3770K, that could not pass OCCT with less than 1.320V at 4.6Ghz going close to 90ºC, I'm impressed, especially with the temps.

 

Mind you that I'm in Rio de Janeiro, summer, no air conditioning and about 32ºC in my room.

 

But from what I hear, I think an i7 is the best option for VR. I don't know about thread count in VR, but both with the i5-8600K and i7-9700K releases, core does not have the same weight as before. They are tying with the i7-7700K and i7-8700K respectively. So I would go for more threads than cores at this point.

 

On iL-2, this is the usage I get with 16 planes, heavy clouds at the level of the fight, Kuban map, and high settings on graphics (shadows in Ultra), TrackIR 5 and G940 setup.

 

Rmb9Ba6.jpg

 

So for TrackIR the i5-9600K is more than fine (it is overkill). Even my old i7-3770K handles it perfectly, but I had to replace my rig because Windows 7 support will end at the end of the year and I did not want to rush things at the last minute. As a side note, Windows 10 is not as good as 7. The interface alone (search and files) is a disaster.

 

My rig:

 

i5-9600K

Z390 UD - finding it to be superstable, with little variation in voltage. By the reviews, looks like Gigabyte is one of the few who bumped VRM count with the 9XXX series

GTX 1060 6GB

Zalman 9900 NT

Corsair 16GB 3200Mhz C16

Samsung 970 EVO

Corsair RM750W

 

NOTE: just now that I saw that I cut the AIDA settings on the print below. The test was done with CPU, FPU and Cache checked.

Overclocking-4.8Ghz-1.212V.jpg

Edited by SeaW0lf
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I also have the i5 9600K OC to 4.8 on air (Noctua NHU 14s) - the size of that fan :biggrin: . I haven't even tried to go further yet but what an incredible upgrade for this sim over my previous i5 4690K. 

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47 minutes ago, doog442 said:

I also have the i5 9600K OC to 4.8 on air (Noctua NHU 14s) - the size of that fan :biggrin: . I haven't even tried to go further yet but what an incredible upgrade for this sim over my previous i5 4690K. 

:good:

 

 

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47 minutes ago, doog442 said:

(Noctua NHU 14s) - the size of that fan :biggrin: 

 

Wait until you get a dual tower :biggrin: I had to lay down my case to use the Assassin II on my previous rig :biggrin:

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Thanks for the i5-9600K info. That CPU deserves a good cooler to get the max of it.

If anyone reach 5.0GHz with the i5-9600K I will be interested in knowing the Passmark Single-Threaded performance.

And also if you could run the IL-2 VR benchmark: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29322-measuring-rig-performance-common-baseline-for-il-2-v3009/

 

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4 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Thanks for the i5-9600K info. That CPU deserves a good cooler to get the max of it.

If anyone reach 5.0GHz with the i5-9600K I will be interested in knowing the Passmark Single-Threaded performance.

And also if you could run the IL-2 VR benchmark: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29322-measuring-rig-performance-common-baseline-for-il-2-v3009/

 

If I can, I'll do it. I might get an H80i since my case cannot fit a 240mm water cooler (Carbide 300R), but I might mod it to fit a 280mm rad at the front (I have to take the HDs bay). Either way I'm not concerned about cooling, since it is handling itself with honors with the 9900 NT in the South America summer (today is blistering hot!). I might try to go to 4.9Ghz as it is now, because I still have at least 6-7ºC of headroom, especially with AIDA64, which is not made to 'destroy' the CPU :biggrin:

 

Let's see...

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9 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Thanks for the i5-9600K info. That CPU deserves a good cooler to get the max of it.

If anyone reach 5.0GHz with the i5-9600K I will be interested in knowing the Passmark Single-Threaded performance.

And also if you could run the IL-2 VR benchmark: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29322-measuring-rig-performance-common-baseline-for-il-2-v3009/

 

 

Will post results when my build is complete, looking for 5.00 ghz and hoping for 5. 2 (got to be optimistic!) 9600k and H150i pro

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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9700k here for a month now.  Running 5.2ghz with 1.330v. I really didn’t even have to try, and my temps have never gone over 74C.  It’s paired with a high-performance z370 mobo, 1080ti hybrid, 2x 240mm fans + 2 120mm fans (not including the GPU radiator fan).

 

Edit:  It’s worth noting that single thread performance is king for VR in this game, if it hasn’t already been said.

Edited by =BES=Coyote-66

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11 hours ago, =BES=Coyote-66 said:

It’s paired with a high-performance z370 mobo

 

What model exactly? I am planning to buy 9700k soon and OC it to 5.0GHz at least.

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5 hours ago, marklar said:

What model exactly? I am planning to buy 9700k soon and OC it to 5.0GHz at least.

 

It is better to get a Z390 model because the VRMs got biffier for the i9-9900K. You will likely have better stability at higher overclocks. And the Z390 is native for the 9th generation. But do some research because apparently ASUS did not change the VRM phases count and just split some phases or something like it. Gigabyte and another brand (I think MSI) improved the phase count and quality on some models. 

 

I would check for that, especially for an 8 core CPU, although VRM throttling will happens more often with the i9-9900K depending on the motherboard. But if you are going for high overclocking, choose well your motherboard.

Edited by SeaW0lf

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6 hours ago, marklar said:

 

What model exactly? I am planning to buy 9700k soon and OC it to 5.0GHz at least.

 

 

avoid the ASRock Z390 Pro4  and the Z390 Phantom Gaming SLI,  because they overheating to >110 Celsius afteroverclocking.

Audiochip: only the Realtek ALC1220-codec.

Bios, I would go for an dual bios very handy at a miss flash

Wifi yes/no your choice

SLI/Crossfire, this become very rare and BoX VR can not run in dual Vcard, think not a point for selecting a mobo. 

 

 

 

 

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On 1/24/2019 at 1:23 PM, Dutch2 said:

 

 

avoid the ASRock Z390 Pro4  and the Z390 Phantom Gaming SLI,  because they overheating to >110 Celsius afteroverclocking.

Audiochip: only the Realtek ALC1220-codec.

Bios, I would go for an dual bios very handy at a miss flash

Wifi yes/no your choice

SLI/Crossfire, this become very rare and BoX VR can not run in dual Vcard, think not a point for selecting a mobo. 

 

 

 

 

100% true on the Pro 4.  I have the MSI z370 gaming Pro Carbon AC.  True about z390s, but I didn’t find the cost to move up worth it.

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After a lot of research I settled on MSI gaming Edge AC Z390, it has the same quality of hardware components as their higher end boards but without a lot of the extra  'fluff/bling' best bang for buck board available with all essential features (for my needs anyway, YMMV) 

Worth a look at anyway, am still "building" so yet to give a full review/test

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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I can only say, just read the reviews and I do mean the real ones, not the sponsered “fake” reviews as you see lot on the internet. If seeing something like the best top 5 motherboards, hmmmm, then be prepared. 

 

edit: right now I keep an close eye to the i7/i5 KF series that is an K, only without the iGPU, so this most be cheaper. 

Edited by Dutch2
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On 1/26/2019 at 5:45 AM, Dakpilot said:

After a lot of research I settled on MSI gaming Edge AC Z390, it has the same quality of hardware components as their higher end boards but without a lot of the extra  'fluff/bling' best bang for buck board available with all essential features (for my needs anyway, YMMV) 

Worth a look at anyway, am still "building" so yet to give a full review/test

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

The MSI gaming Edge has 5 phases that were doubled to create a 10+1 phase design, just like my Z390 UD, but the UD has two extra capacitors and it is 10+2. And the Z390 UD is way cheaper, so you could check if it has all the features you need, because you are paying for bling with the MSI and getting less than the Z390 UD.

 

You can search if 5 doubled phases is enough to reach 5Ghz or go past it with stability. I'm liking it so far (not going past 4.8Ghz now because summer really kicked in). There is no variation in voltage and basically what I set in the BIOS is what is showing with CPU-Z (LLC in Turbo). That wasn't the case with my old Z77X-D3H, when the voltage had a wide variation during stress tests and differed from the BIOS settings.

 

With similar price of the MSI gaming Edge AC, you find the Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Pro, but it has a 12+1 phase design (from 6 doubled phases). If the prices are the same in your region, I would consider a better buy. EDIT: Z390 AORUS Elite also has 12+1 phases (from 6 doubled) and is cheaper. Just check if it has all other features you need.

 

So to me this is the catch. Find a board with more [true] phases and a beefier VRM and that is cheap. The rest is what you said, just bling. SATA ports matter as well depending on how much storage you have. For USB ports (I use more than 8), you can buy an extension.

Edited by SeaW0lf

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Is there any real benefit of these new chips over the i7 7700k in IL2 other than a few extra mhz?

My current thinking is not worth upgrading my 7700k until 10nm and ddr5 or if game makers start utilising cores much better because of next gen console?

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On 1/28/2019 at 7:35 AM, kevman said:

Is there any real benefit of these new chips over the i7 7700k in IL2 other than a few extra mhz?

My current thinking is not worth upgrading my 7700k until 10nm and ddr5 or if game makers start utilising cores much better because of next gen console?

I don't think the advantage is very much.  The newer chips might have better memory controllers and things like that.  I am also waiting for DDR5.  My 7700k runs at 5.1ghz.

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