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Jasta 5 FC Flugpark - Photo Recon Credit Tweaks

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FC as a game, has big problems with a set of aircraft.  There were cards with the same set in the ROF, and there the players also chose the most powerful aircraft.  But in the RoF, the cards changed for others with different years, and in the FC constantly "Groundhog Day".  I understand why a little time after the release of the game, it became a lot of bothers.  We cannot change the composition of the aircraft, but to exclude or limit part of them is accessible.  Probably it is worth listening to the change of all parties and making mutual concessions, in order to somehow diversify this three-card card game 🙂

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Posted (edited)

Agreed, Emely - the current FC plane set presents a pretty large problem in that there's no balance. Albatroses are fodder to Camels, S.E's, SPADs, and the Entente aircraft are fodder to D.VII Fs. 

I really do think the 220hp SPAD and D.IIIaü German scouts are the solution to the problem, but we can only tell the devs our opinion as a community...SPAD to match D.VII F and IIIaü to counter the current Entente planes. 

 

One saving grace that at least adds some balance, and I hope nobody takes this as a sly 'dig' at the Centrals, is that whereas the Pfalz and Albatros are underperforming compared to the Entente scouts, the Entente scouts require more experience to fight effectively in. An inexperienced Alb pilot will tear up an inexperienced SPAD pilot every time, an inexperienced Camel pilot is just as likely to kill themselves in a spin, etc etc. 

Still, that's small compensation, and many of the FC pilots are experienced enough that you're more likely to run into someone that is competent in their plane. All that's happening at the moment is the Centrals are frustrated when flying anything other than a D.VII F, and the Ententes are frustrated because the D.VII F is heavily outclassing their planes. There needs to be a change, as the current plane-set is definitely causing some animosity in the FC community that otherwise wouldn't be present. 


But I've said the exact same thing a few times now. Not holding my breath for any new FC planes anytime soon hah! 


 

Edited by US93_Larner

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I agree that is possibly the most meaningful post from emely i read here on the forum. But if we look at the air to air victory for every month, i think the balance sits about right. Given the fact that flight time is mostly in favour of the central planes.

 

October: Entente: 808 - Central: 836

November: Entente: 946 - Central 994

December: Entente 599 - Central: 616

Jannuary: Entente 261 - Central 264

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Posted (edited)

We're just talking in circles now I suppose. 

 

Anyway, thanks for upping to 7. 

 

See you around.

Edited by US213_Talbot

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35 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

Agreed, Emely - the current FC plane set presents a pretty large problem in that there's no balance. Albatroses are fodder to Camels, S.E's, SPADs, and the Entente aircraft are fodder to D.VII Fs. 

In RoF, only that Albatross could withstand a camel was different.  The rest has not changed.  As for the F7F, they can be shot down with the weapons that are given to us.  Honestly, I see no reason for a dispute

 

28 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

I agree that is possibly the most meaningful post from emely i read here on the forum. 

Forgive me, dear sir, for the fact that I have been too clever ... I will continue to write what I wrote before - all nonsense.  It will suit me if you remove all planes from the map, but leave the dolphin and F7F 😉

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42 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

We're just talking in circles now I suppose. 

 

Anyway, thanks for upping to 7. 

 

See you around.

 

Just make sure they engrave the words: "Thy shall not have more Spads!" into my tombstone :)

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 I just got home from work, never expected this to still be going.

 

  Sizzlor has a point, this is a lot of grief for actually raising the limit from 5 to 7.  IIRC there are no more than 12 DVIIF's on any map, (and on those maps none of the other aircraft are limited.) 

 

  As for lethality, according to the last Aviators Chronicle it was the Camel that had the most kills in the first week of flying. Then again, that's probably just because it's unlimited.   Ditch a Camel, no problem... just grab another. Ditch a 7F... odds are your beat for the rest of the afternoon. (sorry Sizzlor, just had to stick that in there ;))

 

   For the record, I want to thank Sizzlor for making the missions at all, I know I can't do it.  

 

 S!

 GC

 

  

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, J5_Gamecock said:

As for lethality, according to the last Aviators Chronicle it was the Camel that had the most kills in the first week of flying.


I wouldn't trust what that garbage says...



And it was 29 D7F Kills to 26 Camel Kills

Edited by US93_Larner
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And now the 7F and Spad 13 shake wings and fly off happily into the sunset never to quarrel againOIP1KZ0NB7X.jpg.cb6242826543adb84fa635bed73b3f81.jpg

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1 minute ago, US93_Larner said:


I wouldn't trust what that tripe says...

Dishonest media.... Fake news!

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Yes, don't get me wrong, I absolutely appreciate his work, J5's, and anyone else who contributes time and money to the community. Please don't interpret my bitching as anything negative towards you guys. Thanks for providing a house and playground. 

 

Full disclosure: PM's between myself and others got the limits bumped up, which I am definitely happy for. 

 

These were general complaints about the limitations, that some folks may not have even know were there, which snowballed (with me certainly pushing) into a larger argument. 

 

Honestly, I'm just upset Sizzlorr didn't accept my Grindr friendship request. That's the whole matter.

 

 

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10 hours ago, US93_Larner said:


I was under the impression that the SPAD was limited due to historical reasons. You can't have it both ways...either limited SPADs and no D.VII Fs, or unlimited numbers for both. 

Just my 2 cents. 

 

soup_nazi_from_seinfeld.jpg

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14 hours ago, J5_Baeumer said:

 

If by bunkers you mean actual active artillery emplacement bunkers, yes, you need to find those specifically and then fire flare....there are on screen prompts....if you don't get those you are

either not over the artillery itself or not in the plane assigned to perform Arty Spotting mission.

 

I've done it once successfully but had to be 1000m to get it to trigger.

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4 hours ago, US93_Larner said:


I wouldn't trust what that garbage says...

 

Entente propaganda.   The Central aces all know how the croissants and biscuits like to inflate their kill claims!

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Guys, some words from a pilot who flies a lot of different planes but has no clue about how to bring the optimal performance out of any aircraft beside the Dr.I, simply as I am not flying all the time at perfect engine settings and  am not patient enough to use every plane the way it should be used (meaning consideration of possible top-speed and turning performance and power at high or low altitude etc.):

All those discussions on the strenghs and weaknesses on the individual planes are for sure absolutely correct and based on lots of experience, but finally it really matters mostly in pure 1:1 situations only... 

In game (as well as many times in reality too) the fighting situation is a different one: I get my kills if I am able to start the fight with an advantage and survive when I know when its the best time to run away.  Meaning: Also in my Dr.I in the tightest turn fights the absolute most important factor for getting a kill is attacking a plane that is foccused on someone or something else and the most important factor of beeing shot down is when someone else (no matter if camel or spad) attacks me in similar situation.

Those 1 on 1 duels happen at least according to my experience rather rarely....

 

I absolutely agree on the fact, that the lack of top speed for most german planes finally makes a significant difference with respect to the chances of hunting a fleeing enemy or of escaping out of difficult situations but also on that point I have to say => I guess that's just pretty close to the realistic situations german pilots were facing in the later war.

And: As soon as there is an early plane set released with the pusher planes on entente side and Albatros D.II and Rolands for centrals the situation is simply 180 degrees different..

 

So in the end the most important overall success factor is the strategy u choose and the team work applied in each situation 😉

 

I am just writing this statement because I read all the time something of "frustrated central pilots" and from my perspective I only want to make clear that I don't feel any bit of frustration because of any perfomance differences here...

The only cause of frustration is that there is still no Info an any new content for FC in sight...   🙄

 

So aside of any balancing issues the top requirement is anyhow: GIVE US MORE PLANES FOR EACH SIDE!!!! ...the more the better and for all phases of the war please!!!

Ah.... and new maps too, of course 🙂

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Posted (edited)
On 1/8/2020 at 4:31 AM, US213_Talbot said:

That's cool but there are literally only about 12 people who mostly fly SPADS vs everyone else in fokkers. 10 of those folks are 3PG the other 2, 1PL.

 

With numbers, go look at the sortie ratios... 2:1 D7vSPAD. Doesn't matter how many planes are there. 

 

One night five of us fought off waves totalling 20 fokkers. Which actually is historical lol.

 

Anyways. Not bitching but the the limited numbers thing is silly. 

 

No. 23 was as SPAD squadron who served on this FC spring 1918 map. They had SPADs until May 1918 where  they were replaced by dolphins. Which is the same time D7s started showing up on the front. 

 

There should be zero D7Fs for historical accuracy spring 1918.

 

But that would be lame.

 

On 1/8/2020 at 5:02 AM, J99_Sizzlorr said:

That is more of a thing that other entente pilots fly other planes. On the Central side there are less useful planes. That is out of my control. If the plane limit is silly then we shall drop it on all planes. But i am not convinced that it is...

 

The F is merly for compensating that there is no Albatros D.Va with 200 hp Mercedes engine and no Fokker D.VII with the same engine. Flying Circus has it's limits as well.

 

 

I'm with Talbot on this issue, especially if we want to keep things slightly historical and based around the current Spring Offensive 1918 Arras map.

 

Since we don't have the 200hp Albatros D.Va/Fokker D.VII (granted that would fix a lot of things), it's useless to pretend that we are past April/May 1918, even if we do have the Summer 1918 Halberstadt 200hp, Bristol F.2B F.III and the late 1918 Fokker D.VIIF available in-game. Camels would have been plentiful both as scouts and in the fighter/bomber role with Bristol F.2B F.II bombers and escorts.

 

On the Central side: plenty of Albies, Pfalzes, Halberstadts, a few Dr.Is and some vanilla D.VIIs.

 

 

 

So how to balance out this extreme imbalance?

 

Like this:

 

 

9RTmHmi.jpg

 

 

Entente needs to stop the massive Spring Offensive.

 

  • Camel fighter/bombers must stop advancing Tanks, and Bristol high- altitude bombers must destroy Artillery, Trains, Barges and Industrial complex at Cambrai deep behind enemy lines all the while dodging AAA everywhere.
     
  • Scouts must defend the Bristol bombers.
     
  • Trenches are a secondary target, once the main assault has been stopped.

 

 

 

 

3bmwnbO.jpg

 

 

Central needs to make sure the Spring Offensive is succesful. If Entente doesn't counter-attack by air, this is a default win.

 

  • Halberstadts must hit Trenches in support of the Tanks and Artillery.
     
  • Scouts must defend their airspace. Incursions deep behind enemy lines prohibited.
     
  • Arras is a secondary target with some Trains and Barges, though it is heavily defended by AAA and has a Camel base nearby.

 

 

 

 

In conclusion:

 

  • No recon or artillery spotting

    I really wish this was different, but neither awards you any points ("engine limitation"). You could be the best recon pilot of all time and you'd have nothing to show for it.

    To put it in the words of one of our recent visitors:

    DO5WOe6.jpg

    (I stole those targets, by the way) (I regret nothing)

     
  • No Fokker D.VIIF, Halberstadt 200hp and Bristol F.2B F.IIIs

    The 200hp Halberstadt and Bristol F.III are simply not needed. No loss there.

    Hardcore D.VIIF flyers who just want to dogfight Camels are going to be pissed off no matter what and may just leave the server. That is fair enough.

    Camel flyers, on the other hand, will have a field day if they stay on their side of the lines and wait for the enemy to come over. Central must fly organised and limit crossing the lines to a minimum.


     

Finally, I'm not a mission builder.

 

All I can do is make suggestions on how to make it perhaps more playable for everyone. If Central flyers feel that the D.VIIF is indispensable, then bin the whole idea and let's keep doing what we're doing now.

 

Just don't ask me to do any recons in the Halberstadt, it was not used as such. If anything you could strap a camera to the F.

Edited by J5_Hellbender-Sch27b
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Please Please! don't start locking fuel loads like ROF that sucked. Oh yea, leave the Camel alone. S! 

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Just now, -332FG-REDMAN said:

Please Please! don't start locking fuel loads like ROF that sucked. Oh yea, leave the Camel alone. S! 

 

I'm against locking fuel, although there should be an incentive not to run on fumes and bring back your plane alive for repair and refuel.

 

The only thing I'd like to see is that Camels come with bombs as standard, but not locked.

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30 minutes ago, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

(I stole those targets, by the way) (I regret nothing)

 

Why you little! ..... 

 

 

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Regarding the missions, let’s be honest, we don’t have much of anything to work with and we don’t expect to get improvements simply because we are the ones with knowledge about the things we need or that are missing (personally for me, a patch of land south of Cappy, points for recons and the Gotha! The Gotha!). And we are not developing the game.

 

I would personally stick with the basics - smaller missions in general, WWI flak and no locked airfields, especially the ones on the Somme if the mission includes the river. And ask the developers to come up with a system to award points for recons.

 

How do we do recon here? Do we shoot plate to plate like in ROF?

 

And how do we do repair and refueling?

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Posted (edited)

I think a spring offense utilizing JG1's moving lines sounds really cool. 

 

I recently finished an audio book "unsubstantial air" all about the dawning of the USAS (big surprise there, right?) And a section was all about the entente retreat during the spring offensive. G.Defreest Larner (the super cool real one. Not the weirdo we have here) speaks about the aviation squadrons having to fall back from field to field with no idea what the hell was going on really. Simply: "we need to leave now and go to X." Mass confusion and people just rolling out formed up or not. 

 

I think there should be [edited] (for lack of a better word) of entente ground targets on the front that when they get destroyed, the front moves westward in that section taking the field. New ground units appear farther west, rinse repeat until there are no longer fields to spawn from. Have the schustas moving to the forward fields so they can keep putting pressure on the fronts. Put the low turn fighters in the front and the boom and zoomers in the back. Place german ground units near the field, they get killed that section of the front is pushed back east.

 

I'm preaching to the WW1 stamp collection choir here when I saw that the german advance spring 1918 had a good many people thinking the war was lost for the entente. Let's recreate that with what we have?

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
Language. There are better words...just saying
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

I really wish this was different, but neither awards you any points ("engine limitation"). You could be the best recon pilot of all time and you'd have nothing to show for it.

To put it in the words of one of our recent visitors:

DO5WOe6.jpg

 

Excuse please. Me no understand. Person not like  because no points for recon so they leave? They go other server so they get points for recon? TAW have points for recon?  ACG have points for recon? Coconuts have points for recon? Gosh, me go there also plenty quick..

Edited by JG1_Butzzell
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Ok, just was wondering because of the screenshot in Hellbenders posting (for me it looked like it was taken from a statspage...)

 

But do the Server-Admins at least have any chance to check the Chat-Logs?

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That is a screenshot from in game probably from a recording in game.

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I see wing struts in that screenshot. Probably ingame.

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17 hours ago, US213_Talbot said:

No emotions here, chief. 

 

"You contradict yourself a little here, if no one besides 1PL and 3PF flies them on a regular basis why do you want to have more of them?"

 

No contradictions here, bud.  J

😘

 

 

I'm confused ..... Is he a Chief or a Bud?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JG1_Butzzell said:

 

Excuse please. Me no understand. Person not like  because no points for recon so they leave? They go other server so they get points for recon? TAW have points for recon?  ACG have points for recon? Coconuts have points for recon? Gosh, me go there also plenty quick..

Ww2 missions rarely use any recon at all , aty jobs do not exist. Where all air ww1 was about corps jobs done  - recon and Arty.  I can image ppl would like to have points for they efforts in a GAME, you would do it anyway but I can see why others not and can't track the progress or results in long periods.

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk
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1 hour ago, SeaW0lf said:

I see wing struts in that screenshot. Probably ingame.

 

Just a friendly innocent recon plane taking pictures and doing artillery spotting at 3000m. Nothing to see here.

 

mWWzpQk.jpg

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54 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Ww2 missions rarely use any recon at all , aty jobs do not exist.

 

But there u have Cargo or Paratroop missions, where u have the same issue with respect to rewarding: There is no logged event to grant any score for a successfull completion....

So I think also WW2 mission makers would appreciate the possibility to define free mission events that are logged and scored accordingly...

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Posted (edited)

Scandalous shusta pilots!

 

 

 

So there is no way to assign points to a specific plane for completing a specific task given that the task gets completed by that plane?

Edited by US213_Talbot

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, II./JG1_Etzel said:

 

But there u have Cargo or Paratroop missions, where u have the same issue with respect to rewarding: There is no logged event to grant any score for a successfull completion....

So I think also WW2 mission makers would appreciate the possibility to define free mission events that are logged and scored accordingly...

Cargo and paratroopers are in general used in TAW and they use own stat parser /score system and you do gain points plus generate combat mission and you and others see progress on next mission based of what you achieved in previous. BTW personal stat are updated on the fly ,you do not need to wait for mission to end.

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

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1 hour ago, US213_Talbot said:

So there is no way to assign points to a specific plane for completing a specific task given that the task gets completed by that plane?

 Correct, never has been in RoF , Bos and now in FC......except that in our undying quest to improve our experience through creative innovation, we hope to be piloting a possible solution soon.

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22 hours ago, US93_Larner said:

Agreed, Emely - the current FC plane set presents a pretty large problem in that there's no balance. Albatroses are fodder to Camels, S.E's, SPADs, and the Entente aircraft are fodder to D.VII Fs. 

I really do think the 220hp SPAD and D.IIIaü German scouts are the solution to the problem, but we can only tell the devs our opinion as a community...SPAD to match D.VII F and IIIaü to counter the current Entente planes. 

 

One saving grace that at least adds some balance, and I hope nobody takes this as a sly 'dig' at the Centrals, is that whereas the Pfalz and Albatros are underperforming compared to the Entente scouts, the Entente scouts require more experience to fight effectively in. An inexperienced Alb pilot will tear up an inexperienced SPAD pilot every time, an inexperienced Camel pilot is just as likely to kill themselves in a spin, etc etc. 

Still, that's small compensation, and many of the FC pilots are experienced enough that you're more likely to run into someone that is competent in their plane. All that's happening at the moment is the Centrals are frustrated when flying anything other than a D.VII F, and the Ententes are frustrated because the D.VII F is heavily outclassing their planes. There needs to be a change, as the current plane-set is definitely causing some animosity in the FC community that otherwise wouldn't be present. 


But I've said the exact same thing a few times now. Not holding my breath for any new FC planes anytime soon hah! 


 

Once the Germans get a bit of a better engine, and when they expand the timeline backwards a bit then the Alby (hopefully we get the D III too!) and the Pflaz should fair better. These planes weren't as outclassed as they are in the game, it just happens they are the most obsolete aircraft being the oldest at the start of this time period. They would usually be facing a fair amount of older craft aswell but instead its mostly camels, spads, and a few R2bs

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3 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Cargo and paratroopers are in general used in TAW and they use own stat parser /score system and you do gain points plus generate combat mission and you and others see progress on next mission based of what you achieved in previous. BTW personal stat are updated on the fly ,you do not need to wait for mission to end.

 

yes I know I am wondering how they are doing this, maybe the using only the fact that you've flown a cargo plane and landed successfully at a specific place to count this as 1 succsessfull transport. Regarding paratroopers: I don't think that its shown anywhere in TAW statistics page if a Pilot specifically have flown a successfull paratroop mission... of course you get a CM for it, but you get also a CM just for a flight of at least 15 Minutes with successfull landing....

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Posted (edited)

Plane limit is fine as a balancing factor- if we could perhaps do something like TAW where certain planes are not immediately available to the pilot until they rack up some points?  This could also get a few more two-seaters into the air?

Edited by J28w-Broccoli

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17 hours ago, CubanCoveRunner said:

 

I've done it once successfully but had to be 1000m to get it to trigger.

I tried it again last night and nothing, not at 1000 m though.

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