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stupor-mundi

The new fad of flying on tank servers

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11 hours ago, Lofte said:

What else should they do if T-34 with its 76-mm short gun destroys Tiger in frontal armor at 1 km?

You just have to say "thanks" to Axis players who continue this beta-test.

 

I personally have not destroyed a single Tiger in frontal armor. It's pretty much impossible. The flank works great and the cupola and the top of the turret as well.

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1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Say what?

 

@LukeFF,

 

I have witnessed this at least on 3 occasions with a T-34 ramming a Tiger in game until it explodes.  I have started recording MP tanks engagements to try and report this as a bug!  No idea if they did it IRL though!

 

Regards

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Considering the mass difference between the two, IRL the T34 crew would most likely fell unconscious way before the german crew.

Unless they put some sekrit compound in their vodka.

 

It's the same as destroying a KV1 by ramming it with an empty Bf109. It works in game because of improper collision mechanism. IRL, no way.

 

On a side note, I'm even a bit surprised that they didn't came with some crazy idea in that flavor, like a long rod with a huge shape charge at the front for ramming heavy panzers Roman style ! On a BT5 or 7, it could have done wonders together with an expendable crew ! After the failure of homing dog landmines, this doesn't sound like a bad idea :rofl:

 

 

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber
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17 hours ago, Lofte said:

What else should they do if T-34 with its 76-mm short gun destroys Tiger in frontal armor at 1 km?

 

 

lol, try fighting them in a Pz3 then! The other day I was in one up against someone in a T-34 who was..shall we say..less than good at aiming, and I managed to hit him 5-6 times in the turret from about 400 meters, and he then just one-shotted me dead when he finally found his range, and drove off as if nothing had happened 😄  I'm really not sure what use the Pz3 is going to be in TC when its all done, because it just cant make a dent in any tank planned for the Soviet Side. The T-34 we have now is probably the weakest tank the Red's will get and it so massively outclasses the Pz3 that you would need five Pz3's to every one T-34 at this rate..

Edited by Flashy

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if we get the AA vehicles things will change! I am more than willing to just follow tankers with  halftruck and cover the air..... But that is a long time and probably 40 USD away....

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I have another complaint to add to my list of why the large amount of attack planes is damaging to the multiplayer situation, from the tanker's point of view. This one's more complicated.

There's a big difference regarding the effectiveness of the planes, with regards to mission goals, i.e. winning a map, vs. personal k/d ratio.

The planes kill a lot of tanks, and their pilots, at least on the red side, score higher than the tanks.

However, when it comes to being useful in either defending the flag, or taking one, holding a bridge, etc. , they seem to be worth much less than a tank. When it comes to numbers, we have to add the time it takes them to get to station.

So, when I join a map, I look at the tank / plane numbers on both sides before I make up my mind what to do. I usually don't join the blue side if numbers demand it, but I frequently decide not to join, in order not to skew the numbers too much.

But for this, I take tank numbers into account, and ignore planes, for the reasons outlined above. I think it's a problem that checking this is only easily possible before joining.

For whatever reason, the exessively large number of planes is usually on the red side. Maybe this should please me as a red tanker, but it doesnt. It doesn't feel great to be part of a numerically bigger team, even if the tank numbers are equal.

And I think this skewedness has an eroding effect on the overall sportsmanship on the server. Blue players who have been extensively bombed will then think it's fine to pursue a numerical advantage when the opportunity arises, instead of trying to balance out. And this is then a tank:tank skewed ratio, which makes the server completely unplayable in those situations, especially since the recent DM fixes.

 

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To illustrate that point, I was just on a map that was red:blue 8:9

 

It turned out blue were basically all tanks (tigers), whereas 4 of us 8 were planes. To me, it felt like trying to defend the base alone.

The planes were 100% useless in this situation, just as they are in most situations. It was completely pointless and I quit.

 

However, the only people able to see these ratios would be those who just joined the server, hadn't committed to a side yet, and clicked back and forth between red and blue to determine the tanks/planes ratio on each side.

 

I.e. anyone already IN the game can only see the tanks/planes ratio on their own side, since a recent update has taken away the ability of seeing the player count on the opposing side's bases. I understand the thinking behind this, but now something important is missing, in player's ability to assess the situation and choose a side based on that. I realize this only applies to the small portion of players who actually would switch sides, or choose not to join if the numbers were too absurd, but hey.

 

Also it irks me that the blue players in this situation would have come away with the impression that they were winning against an even matched opposition, whereas really they were outnumbering us 2:1

 

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There's always an option to switch sides before you respawn just to check how many's flying and how many's tanking. And then switch back.But i don't think that the opposing side really cares about that ratio.They won't switch to balance the battle. Victory is priority .

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Sure, you could do that.

It's more about what people realistically WILL do. Clicking back and forth before choosing a side is probably already beyond what most people do.

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, stupor-mundi said:

...

 

It turned out blue were basically all tanks (tigers), whereas 4 of us 8 were planes. To me, it felt like trying to defend the base alone.

The planes were 100% useless in this situation, just as they are in most situations. It was completely pointless and I quit.

...

Also it irks me that the blue players in this situation would have come away with the impression that they were winning against an even matched opposition, whereas really they were outnumbering us 2:1

Strange - I've seen it just the other way around. Two IL2 protected by 1 or 2 fighter completely dominated the battlefield, a group of 3 or 4 squad-mates is enough. Any Blue tank leaving the woods was scratched 1 min later. Doesn't matter if Tiger or Panzer III - dead meat. Since the sub-calibre ammo of the P-III is very weak (is that kind of internal kinetic-ricochet-damage modelled already?), there's nothing to go for except the Tiger. Red tankers have a lot more interesting options at the moment.
Will be a though job for MP-mission-design. Fighter-bombers are able to dominate the scenario totally, mobile AAA won't help. Mission designers will have to ban planes until a certain, large number of tanks spawned. Or any human tanker provokes the start of 2 AI-fighters keeping the enemies fighter-bombers busy. Something like that - else the tankers are rats for the terriers.

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Retnek said:

Strange - I've seen it just the other way around. Two IL2 protected by 1 or 2 fighter completely dominated the battlefield, a group of 3 or 4 squad-mates is enough. Any Blue tank leaving the woods was scratched 1 min later. Doesn't matter if Tiger or Panzer III - dead meat. Since the sub-calibre ammo of the P-III is very weak (is that kind of internal kinetic-ricochet-damage modelled already?), there's nothing to go for except the Tiger. Red tankers have a lot more interesting options at the moment.
Will be a though job for MP-mission-design. Fighter-bombers are able to dominate the scenario totally, mobile AAA won't help. Mission designers will have to ban planes until a certain, large number of tanks spawned. Or any human tanker provokes the start of 2 AI-fighters keeping the enemies fighter-bombers busy. Something like that - else the tankers are rats for the terriers.

 

Simple: you're referring to a different mission. I was referring to a mission in a city with a bridge. The city itself is quite wooded. Also, the distances aren't very large.

I agree with your other points.

 

Edited by stupor-mundi
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In todays battle in achtung panzer with the new map this situation happened: We had ran out of tigers and attacked mostly with panzer IIIs but the sky was full of russian airplanes, only me made it into prokorovka and there were no russian tanks in there at all! Every russian player was in the air for the last 20 minutes. After a while when waiting on the ground one sherman appeared.

Dunno why but most red players sticks to the air at all times.
When I play a T-34 Im often alone down on the ground xD

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16 hours ago, judgedeath3 said:

In todays battle in achtung panzer with the new map this situation happened: We had ran out of tigers and attacked mostly with panzer IIIs but the sky was full of russian airplanes, only me made it into prokorovka and there were no russian tanks in there at all! Every russian player was in the air for the last 20 minutes. After a while when waiting on the ground one sherman appeared.

Dunno why but most red players sticks to the air at all times.
When I play a T-34 Im often alone down on the ground xD

The tank crews had a day off.Or perhaps were trying to shoot down countless BF 110,Henschels or rocket carrying FW190s. Or is it ok to have them in the sky but not the red planes?:hunter:

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There should be some kind of automatic ratio.

 

Like 1 authorized plane for 5 tanks on the ground.

And full access to plane without any AT capabilities.

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3 hours ago, RIVALDO said:

The tank crews had a day off.Or perhaps were trying to shoot down countless BF 110,Henschels or rocket carrying FW190s. Or is it ok to have them in the sky but not the red planes?:hunter:

Hahaha, like your humour and point :P But no, we had 2 planes in the air, the rest was on the ground tanking, we were 12 players, the red team was 8.

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1 hour ago, judgedeath3 said:

Hahaha, like your humour and point :P But no, we had 2 planes in the air, the rest was on the ground tanking, we were 12 players, the red team was 8.

Gotcha:biggrin:

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I feel like quitting tanking on IL-2 in multiplayer, until the server admins address the issue or at least recognize the issue.

 

I would describe the current situation as follows:

 

Typically either red or blue have a numerical advantage regarding planes. There is a subset of missions (or maps) which are heavily forested where the tankers are not very affected by the planes.

But on the majority of maps, the tankers in the team with the smaller number of planes usually get massively pissed of, until most of them quit. Then the ratio becomes even more uneven and the other side wins.

Before the attack plane pilots "discovered" the tank servers, this wasn't the case. Most players will embrace the challenge of fighting against heavy odds, even against more powerful tanks. Why? because those are challenges which can be met, by trying to be a better tanker, or a trickier tanker, and so on.

But trying to become good enough at shooting down those planes is just unrealistic, especially since the attack by the plane, the small explosions from the MGs, and so on , kill the tanker's fps and make it even harder to get an aimed shot off.

Simply put, the tankers are just prey for the attack planes, there is no mutuality.

Does fighter cover help? Ultimately no. One side prevails, and that side's attack planes are free to find the tanks, where they KNOW they will be, due to the well known spawn points, and well known routes the tanks must take, and the scale of all that simply being much smaller than it would be in reality.

 

It has been proposed that (very sturdy) AA at the spawns might address the problem, but it will do so only for the defensively minded tankers, not for those keen to go on the offensive.

 

So, right now, the situation is, that you have to hope for your team to have a numerical advantage (in planes), otherwise having a bad time is guaranteed.

Those players who tank on both sides therefore have a strong incentive to join the already stronger side. The opposite of what would be desirable.

 

Thus, I will do what I myself dislike, I will look at the numbers, and join when it's favourable for my side, and abstain from tanking when the plane numbers are unfavourable. Which of course leads to bad numeric ratios. But whatever.

 

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Posted (edited)

But, but , Mundi......you can't leave, my dear arch rival! You just can't!

Edited by J5_Baeumer
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11 hours ago, J5_Baeumer said:

But, but , Mundi......you can't leave, my dear arch rival! You just can't!

 

I won't leave, clearly I'm too addicted to tanking. But I will decide more opportunistically whether to join or not.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, stupor-mundi said:

I

Achtung  Tank P.
Ground plane and bomber reduced.
a little more flak.
Think WorM of E-front is also rebuilding.

Edited by 7./SchG2_v*Athlon
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22 hours ago, 7./SchG2_v*Athlon said:

Achtung  Tank P.
Ground plane and bomber reduced.
a little more flak.
Think WorM of E-front is also rebuilding.

 

Yay! It's hugely appreciated Athlon!

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Posted (edited)

Hey stupor, i think i actually killed you while flying the stuka G, but I love to switch it up a bit in tanks, tank a bit and when I get killed fly a bit and tbh im pretty good at flying the hs129 and stuka but im terrible at dogfighting so the tank server was great for me.. im really loving it but i think the Efront tanks server is a bit Mehh, dunno why too many IA lots of people flying and bigger maps make it feel a bit stale compared to the other server i think..

 

Anyway i hope for more tank content soon as im loving it and i hope it will bring new players though at the current state/price i cant say that i would tell someone to buy it.

I good friend of mine likes this game as well he has the base game BOS, gonna try some tanking together soon, him being gunner or so multicrew tank think he will like it but cant really bring myself to tell him to buy the tank crew in current state.. like i said i really hope it will grow further.

I am guilty of warcrimes I have killed a few tanks with the stuka G while they were in the woods (some of those is contributed to engine damage / track damage)

repair system for the tanks would be nice for track repairs etc. because now people jump out when they are immobile thus granting the kill to the last player that damaged them.

 

On 3/27/2019 at 7:32 PM, Ze-GunnyHighway said:

But when one plays @ expert level, do the plane can find you once in the woods?

It is pretty easy to spot a moving tank while in a low flying plane the exhaust fumes are easy to spot and the dust cloud behind the tank which is realistic in summer but ive seen this also on a rain map and then the dust cloud shouldnt be there tbh.

 

I will try to play less of a attack plane and more of a tanker, Its a shame the game dies but there is some things that need to be adressed by the developers and by the server creators as well, but its also very early in development.

 

On 3/27/2019 at 4:50 PM, Eicio said:

There should be some kind of automatic ratio.

 

Like 1 authorized plane for 5 tanks on the ground.

And full access to plane without any AT capabilities.

i think something like this would really help.

The game also really needs flak trucks, then everything will balance out a bit more for example: 2 tigers in a big open flat area would dominate most russian tanks coming at them. but an airplane would be able to knock them out pretty easily (track damage or worse) but 2 tigers and one AA vehicle would make it much more difficult for a plane to knock them out and people will think about ammo choice (i would definatly bring HE if there are player controlled soft targets)

Edited by jann3man

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On 12/26/2018 at 5:07 PM, Thad said:

Also, playing on a expert server with no icons will make spotting of tanks much more difficult. 😀

 

I know this is an old post, but still valid. 

I like a no icon map, however that being said, it should be possible to report in a ground target and share it with the advancing tanks, of course it should not update the position of the tank only as long the spotting airplane can report its location you would see it on the map. I would also like the same function to be live updating targets so a less static mission situation could evolve. 

 

It it could be a request to bomb a bridge or whatever. 

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