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Count_de_Money

3.009 damage model... ahem..

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hello..  what happened to the DM.. is rather comical..

 

it feels like I'm fighting against some flying balloon animals that pop whenever I hit them with .50 cal he from mc202. Want to take off a wing of yak? 4 x .50 rounds, please. A wing of mig-3?  4 rounds again. Wanna take the wing off with 2 rounds of MG or 2 rounds of .50 cal? Sure thing, buddy! Just hit them when they're turning. Pop! Pop!

 

and the cannons are so arcadly grotesque they are hilarious. It's like you hit the plane with a paddle. Hit it in the engine and the plane deeps in  45 degrees nose down. Hit the plane in the tail section and plane pitches 40 degrees up and then levels out. The cannon rounds are hard hitting, yes, but the way the plane behaves is like it has zero mass, or it's like a buoyant rubber duck that you can tap from the top and it'll go under for a split second and then pop back up.

 

then there are some cannon shots placed on the turning plane that completely rip it apart. Those are so grotesque I actually burst out laughing.

 

So.. can we have 3.008 damage model back, please? Pretty please? 😄

Edited by moosya

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There is no other change in either FM or DM in 3.009 compared to 3.008, except for those listed in the update list. I specifically did a control check of the code before the release. If something constantly seems to someone from version to version, keep the old versions and do correct comparative tests, because individual cases are not indicative, you need statistics on DM for comparison. And it is better to do these tests offline, if we are talking about DM and not about the network.

 

(From @AnPetrovich)

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/8056-обсуждение-версии-3009-у-2вс-крепость-на-волге-бостоны-над-кубанью/?do=findComment&comment=658820

Edited by LukeFF
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2 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Thanks for that link. Can we organize some sort of automatic posting system that reposts this quote - especially the last sentence - in any DM thread including MP anecdotes? ;) 

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2 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

Thanks for that link. Can we organize some sort of automatic posting system that reposts this quote - especially the last sentence - in any DM thread including MP anecdotes? ;) 

 

Yes, that would be golden. :) 

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I don't know jack about the mission editor or running a server, so how does that work when an update is distributed?  I mean, in order for the missions to be completely compatible with the new versions, don't the MP server operators typically have to edit/re-save their missions or something like that whenever a big update comes along? 

Edited by SeaSerpent

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I watched a lot of recent single-player replays of mine and what OP describes in such vivid terms looks like realistic behaviour to me: for example when you hit plane's elevator it pitches up because you just severed the controls, etc, etc: Anyway. I didn't notice anything " grotesque" or even jarring in the replays, maybe it only happens in multiplayer due to lag ?

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@LukeFF @AnPetrovich What's mostly being reported by players (and some videos/clips/gifs in the update discussion and bug report section) isn't because of DM system, looks like it's because of some sort of netcode problem. Planes sometimes when hit with bullets (even one or two rifle caliber impacts might be enough) suddenly break appart in a very violent way, like if they had a massive over G effect applied when hit. Apparently it mostly affects single engine planes, at least the cases I know involved that type of plane (Fw 190, Bf 109, Yak-1, Spitfire Mk V)

I experienced this twice today when playing on TAW server (by shooting at a 109 and seeing how a 110 did it to a Yak), and a couple other players I know suffered from it as well. I hope you can find the cause and make a hotfix soon.

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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5 hours ago, unreasonable said:

 

Thanks for that link. Can we organize some sort of automatic posting system that reposts this quote - especially the last sentence - in any DM thread including MP anecdotes? ;) 

 

Instead of ridiculing a game breaking bug (at least for al MP players), it would be better to elaborate the actual problem - netcode causing DM oddities of the highest order

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53 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

Instead of ridiculing a game breaking bug (at least for al MP players), it would be better to elaborate the actual problem - netcode causing DM oddities of the highest order

 

I am in no position to elaborate the problem since I have never experienced it. What I have experienced, repeatedly over the years, is people identifying as MP blaming the FM, DM or whatever for odd goings on that are not present in SP. They sometimes even insist that the FM, DM and AI are different in MP, SP tests results are not applicable to MP etc. 

 

It is these people I am ridiculing, not the bug. Now we have in black and green a top developer telling them to test offline.  This information needs to reach the widest possible audience. 

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8 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

What I have experienced, repeatedly over the years, is people identifying as MP blaming the FM, DM or whatever for odd goings on that are not present in SP. They sometimes even insist that the FM, DM and AI are different in MP, SP tests results are not applicable to MP etc. 

 

Or you could actually stop kiss "someones" ass and say how it is: The netcode has been really bad from start to finish. I am also doing sim racing and with a netcode like this franchise, you would be dead in that niche immediately. The netcodes in racing sims are worlds apart from this one, making door to door racing possible with the cars not warping a single cm to left or right, even when there are 50 cars in the grid. And sim racing is also a tiny niche market just as sim flying, so the "small budget" is no argument.

The netcode has always caused odd situations in MP that are not present in SP, just as you pointed out. There are and have been several problems in many cases that are still not fixed. So no wonder people flying MP are upset about it. Especially when there is a more then 10 years old sim that doesn't have those problems at all (1946)

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*

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As much as I agree that the net code probably needs some overhaul, as much I have to second what @unreasonable says.

As a software developer myself, I can tell you that among the most annoying things you can ever meet are customers who complain in an "all sh*t" manner, however being unable to identify, let alone separate issues themselves.

That being said, each and every false claim of "broken FM" or "broken DM" where in fact the netcode would be to blame, is another nail in the netcode's coffin.

That's why indeed the word needs to be spread that if people face such strange allegedly "DM" issues, they should try to reproduce the same thing in SP, and if they can't, stop claiming that it'd be a "DM" issue at all because most likely it's not.

 

Talking about 1946, that game has serious net issues as well.

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

For instance, AI gunners in 1946 have a life of their own. What you see in MP isn't necessarily what your opponent sees as there's no net sync of that action at all.

Add to that the "shooter wins" hit solution and the "victim wins" damage solution, where in the whole "a shoots at b" situation the server has no single bit of control about what's actually going on... cheaters anyone?

 

Talking about racing sims, I'd say: I beg to differ.

For a racing sim net sync is probably even more important than it will ever be for a CFS game, but on the other hand it's a tad easier there too, except for when you'd have planes and gunners shooting bullets around at each other and dropping bombs/launching rockets.

 

:drinks:

Mike

Edited by SAS_Storebror
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Of course I agree with that first paragraph, but most people don't know that, they won't do detailed testing themselves (why should they? they are consumers after all), and they assume the most obvious: the FM or DM being broken. The "all shit" mentality comes from recurrent frustration and is not caused by a single bug or event, but because of many bugs and events over a long time, that don't get fixed. 

 

I took part in plenty of SeoWs (dynamic online campaigns) in 1946 with closed sign-ups, no cheaters. I never once saw something odd going on with the netcode, it was smooth as it gets, even with massive troop and ship movement on the ground and massive bomber swarms in the air. That's what I hoped for can be reached in the "next generation" as well, but this hope is long gone unfortunately. What I hope now, and what really should be possible, is, that in the current scope (84 players max and barely any ground assets) the game runs smooth online without oddities..

 

I wouldn't say it's easier for a racing sim. Yes, the cars are not shooting bullets or dropping bombs, but there are 360 (in newest tech up to 720) changing physics calculations per second, depending on the road surface, wind and speed for each car. And they still all manage that those cars don't warp a single CM (in contrary to aircraft in BoX which sometimes warp 50m)

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*

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30 minutes ago, SAS_Storebror said:

As much as I agree that the net code probably needs some overhaul, as much I have to second what @unreasonable says.

As a software developer myself, I can tell you that among the most annoying things you can ever meet are customers who complain in an "all sh*t" manner, however being unable to identify, let alone separate issues themselves.

That being said, each and every false claim of "broken FM" or "broken DM" where in fact the netcode would be to blame, is another nail in the netcode's coffin.

That's why indeed the word needs to be spread that if people face such strange allegedly "DM" issues, they should try to reproduce the same thing in SP, and if they can't, stop claiming that it'd be a "DM" issue at all because most likely it's not.

 

Talking about 1946, that game has serious net issues as well.

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

For instance, AI gunners in 1946 have a life of their own. What you see in MP isn't necessarily what your opponent sees as there's no net sync of that action at all.

Add to that the "shooter wins" hit solution and the "victim wins" damage solution, where in the whole "a shoots at b" situation the server has no single bit of control about what's actually going on... cheaters anyone?

 

Talking about racing sims, I'd say: I beg to differ.

For a racing sim net sync is probably even more important than it will ever be for a CFS game, but on the other hand it's a tad easier there too, except for when you'd have planes and gunners shooting bullets around at each other and dropping bombs/launching rockets.

 

:drinks:

Mike

 

what i see from videos and stats it exactly what was before happening online in small cases when data of bullet would be delayed, you would then have this violent damage recived on guy being shoot at. I try to expalain that to guys complaining about that DM is somehow changed, as this is only happening online. Most online players dont play SP so usealy what they see online they think happends also in SP.

If people pay atention on how they are trying to fix MP since 3.007, they would see that this could easy be problem of them trying to fix outdated data online bug. Now probably data is not so mutch delayed(they maybe found fix to minimise delay) , but effect of when enemy airplane recive that bullet data is still there ( 100% damage).

 

look at this video from before 3.007, look how 190 just explods (in same way as shown in clips of a20vs190 from 3.009) when it recives bullet data from il-2 who shoot at him in 23s of video:  (same as what people see now, just it happends withextra small delay in 3.009)

 

they dont have ability to run big online beta tests so this things are expectable, but if people complain to strongly and then even miss ID whats happening, they could not be so wiling to continue fixing MP in future, and there was some noticable fixes to mp since 3.007.

Edited by 77.CountZero

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Hi all,

 

As Jason said already. They know whats going on and has to be something MP related since SP DM work as intented. And there is no 2 DMs.

 

Locked

 

Haash

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