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E69_geramos109

Bf109 3D cockpit model not accured

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The in-game 109s'  frontal glass upper bar looks very similar to the following bar as viewed from this particular angle: here the pilot's "eyes" are strickly stuck on the ceiling of the canopy.

 

Messerschmitt-Bf-109-G-2-Black-6-IMG-576

 

(Image quoted from a previous post.)

 

Edited by wonders9
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Would be cool to know from where this is from.

Also, do you mean that the bar in the game looks like from this particular angle in the photo,

therefore wrong?

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11 hours ago, So_ein_Feuerball said:

Would be cool to know from where this is from.

Also, do you mean that the bar in the game looks like from this particular angle in the photo,

therefore wrong?

 

It is from Talon_'s second post in this thread.

Basically, yes. But in this argument one needs to put in the missing logical links himself.

 

Edited by wonders9

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On 1/13/2019 at 3:39 AM, wonders9 said:

The in-game 109s'  frontal glass upper bar looks very similar to the following bar as viewed from this particular angle: here the pilot's "eyes" are strickly stuck on the ceiling of the canopy.

 

Messerschmitt-Bf-109-G-2-Black-6-IMG-576

 

(Image quoted from a previous post.)

 

Probably even out of the cockpit. You can see there is no metalic bar on the photo. Just the armored glass

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9 hours ago, E69_geramos109 said:

Probably even out of the cockpit. You can see there is no metalic bar on the photo. Just the armored glass

 

I think this is the metalic bar -- or, if missing, where it should be.

 

Messerschmitt-Bf-109-G-2-Black-6-IMG-57630.jpg

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ a separate post ]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Among the images in Talon_'s first and second posts in this thread, there is this 109; but I suspect that this 109 is not using the original armour glass, since this piece of armour glass does not fit into its metalic frame (see the red lines in the second image below).

 0020_Zirchow_Usedom_Messerschmitt_Bf_109

 

0020_Zirchow_Usedom_Messerschmitt_Bf_109_G-14_WNr_462707_Cockpit_Instrumentenbrett00.thumb.png.fc31bee927795c915e54a280a951e1ee.png

 

Bf2010920G-1420WNr20462707_2.png

  

Edited by wonders9

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Honestly, DCS' K4 is modeled about the same. If sources state they are mostly like that I dont imagine we will see this changed. 

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12 hours ago, Field-Ops said:

Honestly, DCS' K4 is modeled about the same. If sources state they are mostly like that I dont imagine we will see this changed. 

No idea if is going to be changed. I sent Devs everything and sources are very clear. Still waiting some answer but i guess it will take some time go them to read the pm

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On 1/28/2019 at 1:07 AM, Field-Ops said:

Honestly, DCS' K4 is modeled about the same. If sources state they are mostly like that I dont imagine we will see this changed. 

 

Emphasis on about. 

 

In DCS, the side bars of the cockpit front are way less obstructive than in IL2.

 

If one takes a closer look, it seems as if they are bent in IL2 to fit the upper windshield, whereas in DCS they look in line with the side windows.

 

I can‘t be completely sure without seeing both teams‘ sources, but  my guess would be that the DCS team got this one right. If it‘s possible to be less obstructive, then why be obstructive.

Edited by So_ein_Feuerball

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On 1/27/2019 at 9:07 PM, Field-Ops said:

Honestly, DCS' K4 is modeled about the same. If sources state they are mostly like that I dont imagine we will see this changed. 

 

Edited by Panzer-uy
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Here given is a comparison between the armour glass bar of a 109 G2 in a historical photograph and that of a 109 G2 in our BoS sim. The viewpoint in the screenshot from the sim is very similar to that in the photograph, perphaps even a little lower, but that dominant horizontal bar in-game looks much thicker than in the historical photograph, thus having deteriorated the BoS sim pilots' cockpit view and flight experience.

  

post-187-0-11381700-1380226283.jpg

 

2019_11_15_19_19.png

 

~~~~~~~~~~~

Added:

We can also pay attention to the angle marked by orange lines in the images below. In the historical photograph, it is an acute angle, less than 60 degrees, but in the sim screenshot, it is a right angle.

 

post-187-0-11381700-13226283.png

 

2019_11_15_19_19 .png

 

Edited by wonders9
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16 minutes ago, wonders9 said:

Here given is a comparison between the armour glass bar of a 109 G2 in a historical photograph and that of a 109 G2 in our BoS sim. The viewpoint in the screenshot from the sim is very similar to that in the photograph, perphaps even a little lower, but that dominant bar in-game looks much thicker than in the historical photograph, thus having deteriorated our sim pilots' cockpit view and flight experience.

  

post-187-0-11381700-1380226283.jpg

 

2019_11_15_19_19.png

  

 

Bad example and not suitable to compare - wrong angle, wrong distance.

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54 minutes ago, -=-THERION said:

 

Bad example and not suitable to compare - wrong angle, wrong distance.

 

The angles are not absolutely the same, but you can definitely see what is wrong in the sim. If you can't, well, I can't say anything more.

By the way, the gunsight in the historical photograph is placed higher than normally seen in the sim.

 

 

Edited by wonders9
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I think that, it is a little geometrical difference, but it is placed in the worst place just in front of the pilot's eyes.

By the way, the REVI gunsight seem a little lower in game, than in the wartime pictures.

Edited by III/JG52_Otto_-I-

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The comparison with the historical photograph I posted above is not meant to be a proof as such of the 3d-model bug, but for people to better sense the problem. The proof has already been provided by the OP's picture: 

  

1716554174_seccionfrontalbf109.thumb.jpg.0daa7ba35fdaa68ab97e334c95c1cc41.jpg

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to me the width actually looks fine. rather the angle and placement on the curve of the canopy frame look different.

 

are they the same model?

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10 hours ago, OrLoK said:

to me the width actually looks fine. rather the angle and placement on the curve of the canopy frame look different.

 

Yes, exactly. The angle, not the width, of that bar in the sim is wrong, which is 90 degrees to the side bar of the armor glass, as indicated in the screenshot I later added to that post, and because of this mistake the bar in the sim looks extremely thick. Certain posts on page 1 of this topic have already made it clear.

 

I believe that regarding this issue Willy Messerschmitt must have made the better choice.

 

Edited by wonders9

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I think we won´t know whether the angle is correct until someone finds and posts original BF 109 blueprints.

What me and OP have posted are not technical drawings, but Ersatzteillisten - spare part lists.

We don´t know how accurate they are, but at least they are an indicator that there may be something wrong.

 

We would need either the source material the devs used or blueprints of our own.

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On 12/19/2018 at 3:27 PM, LizLemon said:

From the G6. The highlighted line is the top of the armored glass

1874067199_g6pit.png.59ba0e254caec19e16788f3fe8fe2c61.png

 

Is this wireframe view of the Bf109 G6's 3D model in BoX ? 

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Just now, wonders9 said:

 

Is this wireframe view of the Bf109 G6's 3D model in BoX ? 

 

yes

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Posted (edited)
On 12/17/2018 at 9:58 AM, E69_geramos109 said:

Hi everyone

Here I bring you something i noticed after testing by myself the cockpit of a bf109 in contrast as well with some mates from Jg52 squad @III/JG52_Otto_-I- @III/JG52_Supongo

 

Problem is that on the game the armored frontal glass on the 109 has modelled wrong the angle of the bar that holds this glass. This has nothing to do with the refraction problems that the FW190 has because on this case we see the metalic part outside the glass, so no refraction involved, just 3D model.

When will  this be fixed?

:salute:

skud

Edited by LukeFF

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44 minutes ago, ATAG_SKUD said:

When will  this be fixed?

:salute:

skud

No idea. What I hope is the next G6 late they will release with normandy map. Maybe then devs will have a look on the 3d problems that the 109 has

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On 4/10/2020 at 2:57 PM, E69_geramos109 said:

No idea. What I hope is the next G6 late they will release with normandy map. Maybe then devs will have a look on the 3d problems that the 109 has

They´ve released the G14 and the K4 in the meantime and Jason confirmed there are currently no plans to increase the fidelity of older cockpits and cockpits that are based on these.

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Geez some of you guys nit pick about some total garbage!!...just play the damn game FFS!

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8 hours ago, -332FG-Tonester said:

Geez some of you guys nit pick about some total garbage!!...just play the damn game FFS!

I´m afraid nitpicking is one of the favourite pastimes historians and history-enthusiasts pursue.

So unless complaining about our nitpicking is your favourite pastime, I do recommend you stop wasting your time with tring to stop us. 😋

 

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Luckily games are not only for ... gaming, they are also for documenting one self (wrt performace, aircraft design, types, historical usage, airframes), doing videos, creating missions, campaigns, setting up servers... i.e. flight sims..... are more than airquake....

 

If people in this thread did not play the game I'm afraid they wouldn't have noticed things to nit-pick about.

 

Complaining about complaining about complaining....

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By the way i found that we have the same blind angle in the K4 whindshield, that in the previous Gustavs in game.
This is a photographic comparison of a real BF-109K4 windshield compared with the K4 modelled in game.
K4_windshield_comparation..thumb.jpg.f03d0a531f4f7ade51b6d97f24a4be36.jpg

P.S.
This real cockpit windshield is built by www.arsenal-45.de as spare part for Bf-109K4 restoration projects, for airworthy, and technical historical purposes. Arsenal-45 reproducing these spares, according with technical Messerchmitt documentation, historical photos, and archaeological rest found of the original aircraft, in some cases .  

 

 

 

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