Kill crediting system since patch

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand 734]

I have noticed a couple of times now that on TAW as well as on WoL, you do not get credited kills anymore that would have been credited before.

This is the case in situations where the enemy player crash lands without gear or even with the engine dead. you get credited in game but not on the server stats pages later it does not credit you that kill.

 

I am not talking about situations where the player actually lands without breaking his prop etc... its always been like that, that it wasn´t credit as a kill

 

Here is one example from WoL, where I witnessed the plane hit the ground (no gear down and breaking prop)

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/de/sortie/log/3789776/?tour=42

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2018 by =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn

[Flitgun 47]

That was a change in update 3.007

 

Link to 3.007 notes

 

Quote

10. Multiplayer: a kill will be awarded immediately only if an enemy pilot was killed, bailed out or his aircraft crumbled;
11. Multiplayer: a kill won't be awarded if a pilot manages to return and land at a friendly airfield (with the exception of point 12, see below);
12. In mission statistics, an aircraft will be scrapped only if its fuselage or a wing at its base has been ruptured;

 

I like it and think it's a realistic change. I know some will disagree.

[Legioneod 1739]

11 minutes ago, Flitgun said:

That was a change in update 3.007

 

Link to 3.007 notes

 

 

I like it and think it's a realistic change. I know some will disagree.

Agreed, hope they add even more to it so that you actually have to land at base to get credit for the kill.

[Flitgun 47]

3 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Agreed, hope they add even more to it so that you actually have to land at base to get credit for the kill.

 

I'd vote for that too.

[Mohawk76 45]

Quote

11. Multiplayer: a kill won't be awarded if a pilot manages to return and land at a friendly airfield (with the exception of point 12, see below);

This component is not working as advertised.

 

I shot down IceBerg_BIG who ditched in the middle of nowhere after turning his engine off and belly landing it.

 

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/3793912/?tour=42

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/3793960/?tour=42

[-=-THERION 751]

56 minutes ago, Fangthane said:

This component is not working as advertised.

 

I shot down IceBerg_BIG who ditched in the middle of nowhere after turning his engine off and belly landing it.

 

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/3793912/?tour=42

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/3793960/?tour=42

 

Well, I checked the new rules as introduced with the release notes of patch 3.007 and it says the following:

 

10. Multiplayer: a kill will be awarded immediately only if an enemy pilot was killed, bailed out or his aircraft crumbled
11. Multiplayer: a kill won't be awarded if a pilot manages to return and land at a friendly airfield (with the exception of point 12, see below)
12. In mission statistics, an aircraft will be scrapped only if its fuselage or a wing at its base has been ruptured

 

So now, if I have a look at both stats you provided us and comparing with the 3 new rules, to me it works as it should.

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand 734]

On 12/9/2018 at 6:11 AM, Flitgun said:

aircraft crumbled

 

What is that supposed to mean?

If it means crashing to the ground, then it didn’t work as it was supposed to I guess

[Flitgun 47]

17 hours ago, =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn said:

 

What is that supposed to mean?

If it means crashing to the ground, then it didn’t work as it was supposed to I guess

 

Well, 'crashing to the ground' could include a crash in which the wings and fuselage remain intact, or they don't remain intact. If they remain intact and player lands at a friendly field a kill is not awarded. If the plane breaks apart (fuselage or wing roots) - it's a kill. Both examples involve 'crashing to the ground'. So no, 'crashing to the ground' does not guarantee a kill. I understand the definition of 'crumbled' to be stated in rule 12: ''fuselage or a wing at its base has been ruptured'.

 

The following examples are presumed after your damage...

 

example 1: Victim has holes in his wings and lands  nicely at his friendly field = no kill.

example 2: Victim fumbles the landing at his friendly field and rips the gear off, bends the prop back and the wing tip snaps = no kill.

example 3: Victim's engine cuts out and the Victim makes a perfect wheels down landing on an iced over river in friendly territory but not at his friendly field = kill.

example 4: Victim lands his damaged plane at his friendly field, but comes down so hard he rips one of the wings off = kill.

 

At least that is my interpretation. In my experience, that seems to be how it is working.

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand 734]

5 hours ago, Flitgun said:

The following examples are presumed after your damage...

 

example 1: Victim has holes in his wings and lands  nicely at his friendly field = no kill.

example 2: Victim fumbles the landing at his friendly field and rips the gear off, bends the prop back and the wing tip snaps = no kill.

example 3: Victim's engine cuts out and the Victim makes a perfect wheels down landing on an iced over river in friendly territory but not at his friendly field = kill.

example 4: Victim lands his damaged plane at his friendly field, but comes down so hard he rips one of the wings off = kill.

 

 

Well no, I saw him crash into the ground no landing gear down and breaking his prop (like I described in OP). This used to be a kill, but apparently you have to break the fuselage and/or and the wings?

Edited December 12, 2018 by =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn

[Flitgun 47]

6 hours ago, =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn said:

 

 

Well no, I saw him crash into the ground no landing gear down and breaking his prop (like I described in OP). This used to be a kill, but apparently you have to break the fuselage and/or and the wings?

 

No what? There have been changes to the way kills are awarded in multiplayer. Yes, your example here used to be a counted as a kill. Now, if that landing was at a friendly field, it is not.

 

My examples are generic. Nothing to do with you specifically.

[US93_Furlow 344]

On Wings of Liberty I shot down a 109 that belly landed in the middle of nowhere and was credited in game yet I still don't get a kill on the the stats page which is BS.  I guess I'll  continue to stick with TAW as my go to server where I would have been credited.  I'm through with taking WoL seriously when I fly there its the last straw for me. 

 

I completely understand belly landings not counting as kills as long as it happens at an airfield.

Edited December 13, 2018 by =AVG77=Garven

[Herne 839]

On 12/9/2018 at 5:11 AM, Flitgun said:

That was a change in update 3.007

 

Link to 3.007 notes

 

 

I like it and think it's a realistic change. I know some will disagree.

 

I dont think point 11 is working as intended though, you have to land at a friendly airfield, and sometimes I'm pretty sure that this is not the case. Especially the designated airfields

[Mohawk76 45]

On 12/10/2018 at 7:51 AM, -IRRE-Therion said:

 

Well, I checked the new rules as introduced with the release notes of patch 3.007 and it says the following:

 

10. Multiplayer: a kill will be awarded immediately only if an enemy pilot was killed, bailed out or his aircraft crumbled
11. Multiplayer: a kill won't be awarded if a pilot manages to return and land at a friendly airfield (with the exception of point 12, see below)
12. In mission statistics, an aircraft will be scrapped only if its fuselage or a wing at its base has been ruptured

 

So now, if I have a look at both stats you provided us and comparing with the 3 new rules, to me it works as it should.

Rule #3 (i.e. #12) is an exception of #2 (i.e. #11) and the key is "at a friendly airfield" and as in my case he landed 40km's from the airfield ditching it in the snow.

 

I have had this again yesterday though it might have been only 30km to the airfield.

 

So I believe that the new kill system is currently "operationally impaired".

[CountZero 1316]

This is probably error in web stats detection, wol guys use defolt vaal stats with some modiifications, so best is report this with srtie in question to vaal and maybe he knows how to fix it, i think this is just weeb stats detecting something wrong in some situations when enemy crash lands.

 

i see if status say: Crashed and sortie log says same crshed, then is counted as kill, but if status says Landed not on Airfield and sortie log says ditched then it doesent count as kill, so did guy landed on with landing gear down in that 2nd case, maybe thats comon for all thouse cases where you dont get kill if enemy crash lands and not near or on his airbase.

Edited December 13, 2018 by 77.CountZero

[CountZero 1316]

So i check some more and see that even before 3.007 update that guys are pointing out as reason to this problem, same thing was hapening.

 

example from 11.11.2018 before 3.007

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/3712574/?tour=41

 

also ditched and Landed not on Airfield and no kill for guy who damages you in thouse conditions.

 

and i check for me and rip also and found one case when we get tis and he111 no kill for us, also ditched and landed not on airfield, and i remenber that both of us landed wth no engine at not active airfield in that sortie, after 111 gunners got our engines.

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/3784877/?tour=42

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/3784878/?tour=42

 

so to me this is no bug of game, or new logic after 3.007 update but maybe problem how vaal stats consider landing (probably with gear down) on any place or maybe any frendly airbase ( no mather active or not) as no kill for guy who damaged you. To me this should count as kill and not no kill as its now.

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by 77.CountZero

[Flitgun 47]

9 hours ago, =11=Herne said:

 

I dont think point 11 is working as intended though, you have to land at a friendly airfield, and sometimes I'm pretty sure that this is not the case. Especially the designated airfields

 

That could well be the case. I'm just explaining the design. But yeah, I think that's what Schwarz is trying to say - that he had a glitch with it. Though he has never said whether the landing was at a 'friendly field', which is a critical ingredient.

[CountZero 1316]

10 hours ago, =11=Herne said:

 

I dont think point 11 is working as intended though, you have to land at a friendly airfield, and sometimes I'm pretty sure that this is not the case. Especially the designated airfields

 

10 minutes ago, Flitgun said:

 

That could well be the case. I'm just explaining the design. But yeah, I think that's what Schwarz is trying to say - that he had a glitch with it. Though he has never said whether the landing was at a 'friendly field', which is a critical ingredient.

 

that point 11 works as intended after patch, enemy gets your engine, and you still manage to land back to your spawn/active airbase, and no in game kill message or web stats kill reworded, game now waits to see if youll make it before giiving guy who damaged you kill. Befor 3.007 that didnt work ok as in game if you destroy enemys controls or engine, in game chat would imidiatly give you kill message, but if you bring that same airplane back to your spawn/active base web stats would not give you kill. After 3.007 they are sincked and game also dont give kills for airplanes that made back safe to ther base.

example from yesterday on wol, he got his engine destroyed but managed to glide to his home base and land, no kill in game or in stats for guy who damaged him.

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/3807583/?tour=42

before 3.007 that would be differant, in game chat would imidiatly give kill not even waiting to see if player can land on home base, while web stat would be same as now. Thats why they fix that in 3.007.

Edited December 13, 2018 by 77.CountZero

[Herne 839]

7 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

 

that point 11 works as intended after patch, enemy gets your engine, and you still manage to land back to your spawn/active airbase, and no in game kill message or web stats kill reworded, game now waits to see if youll make it before giiving guy who damaged you kill. Befor 3.007 that didnt work ok as in game if you destroy enemys controls or engine, in game chat would imidiatly give you kill message, but if you bring that same airplane back to your spawn/active base web stats would not give you kill. After 3.007 they are sincked and game also dont give kills for airplanes that made back safe to ther base.

example from yesterday on wol, he got his engine destroyed but managed to glide to his home base and land, no kill in game or in stats for guy who damaged him.

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/3807583/?tour=42

before 3.007 that would be differant, in game chat would imidiatly give kill not even waiting to see if player can land on home base, while web stat would be same as now. Thats why they fix that in 3.007.

 

to give an example I tangled with a 190 on Kota  on the 44 map near the front line at 13k feet. He must have been at least 50km from one of the designated open airfields, yet its likely friendly ones which were not "open" were much closer. I took out his engine, I left him be, knowing he could not make it back to base. 
 

I get an in game kill notification when he hit the deck, yet stats showed that he ditched, but I had no kill credited, which makes me think he either ditched at an undesignated friendly airfield where the rules may apply, though am not sure. Or that they do not work as intended, especially if the design is supposed to be for open "mission " airfields
 

[SeaSerpent 812]

14 hours ago, =AVG77=Garven said:

On Wings of Liberty I shot down a 109 that belly landed in the middle of nowhere and was credited in game yet I still don't get a kill on the the stats page which is BS.  I guess I'll  continue to stick with TAW as my go to server where I would have been credited.  I'm through with taking WoL seriously when I fly there its the last straw for me. 

 

I completely understand belly landings not counting as kills as long as it happens at an airfield.

 

I think everyone agrees that a belly landing should be a kill.  So is this happening on KOTA too, and everywhere else but TAW?

[CountZero 1316]

43 minutes ago, =11=Herne said:

 

to give an example I tangled with a 190 on Kota  on the 44 map near the front line at 13k feet. He must have been at least 50km from one of the designated open airfields, yet its likely friendly ones which were not "open" were much closer. I took out his engine, I left him be, knowing he could not make it back to base. 
 

I get an in game kill notification when he hit the deck, yet stats showed that he ditched, but I had no kill credited, which makes me think he either ditched at an undesignated friendly airfield where the rules may apply, though am not sure. Or that they do not work as intended, especially if the design is supposed to be for open "mission " airfields
 

 

KOTA is using same web stats Vaal made ( same WoL uses), and in my previous posts i explain when i see this bug when kill is reworded in game but not in web stats (ditched=landed not on airfiels, for type of scenarious you describe in this post also ) , and this is not same as point 11 that works as intendend in game and in web stats ( as from what i can see that problem in this topic happends when enemy lands on inactive base or lands with gear down on field, not like point 11 says about active base ) .

That type of scenario you describe should be reworded as kill also in web stats, type in point 11 should not (and it works like hat after 3.007 in game and in stats), and from what i can see this problem OP talk about is only stats problem, and should be fixed by Vaal, game works ok as intended after 3.007, as you did get kill message in game like other players when enemy ditches.

 

40 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

I think everyone agrees that a belly landing should be a kill.  So is this happening on KOTA too, and everywhere else but TAW?

 

Taw has its own web stat system not deendend on Vaal stats.

 

I posted in web stats topic about this problem so maybe vaal can fix it when he have time.

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by 77.CountZero

[CountZero 1316]

On 12/7/2018 at 6:09 PM, =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn said:

I have noticed a couple of times now that on TAW as well as on WoL, you do not get credited kills anymore that would have been credited before.

This is the case in situations where the enemy player crash lands without gear or even with the engine dead. you get credited in game but not on the server stats pages later it does not credit you that kill.

 

I am not talking about situations where the player actually lands without breaking his prop etc... its always been like that, that it wasn´t credit as a kill

 

Here is one example from WoL, where I witnessed the plane hit the ground (no gear down and breaking prop)

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/de/sortie/log/3789776/?tour=42

 

 

 

 

i shoot at you today and i got kill in game after you dived away leaking fuel, but when i check web stats it says same landed not on airfiled, and no kill in web stats like in your case

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/3818025/?tour=42

 

so from your pov did you do something differant this time crash landing, did you land with gear down, or didnt brake something on landing, or landed close to frendly objective and so on, there has to be something differant this time so it counts as ditch and no kill. 

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand 734]

40 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

so from your pov did you do something differant this time crash landing, did you land with gear down, or didnt brake something on landing, or landed close to frendly objective and so on, there has to be something differant this time so it counts as ditch and no kill. 

 

Well, as you can see you didn´t shoot me down

 

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/3818025/?tour=42

 

landed smooth as a baby´s behind 😄

 

Turned enigne off and made a perfect landing. So that wouldn´t have been a kill under the old system either, but you know how that worked...

Edited December 16, 2018 by =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn

[CountZero 1316]

32 minutes ago, =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn said:

 

Well, as you can see you didn´t shoot me down

 

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/3818025/?tour=42

 

landed smooth as a baby´s behind 😄

 

Turned enigne off and made a perfect landing. So that wouldn´t have been a kill under the old system either, but you know how that worked...

 

thats why im asking, stats say u didnt land on airbase, and thats usealy kill as it count as crash landed if you dont land on your spawn base.

 

So did you land with your gear down on some random base or random field on your side of border ? as its the same sitation in your OP with link you posted.

 

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand 734]

Person in my OP landed without gear. That used to always be a kill

I landed with gear down on my side of

the border. That was never a kill and still isn’t.

 

So there is a difference

Edited December 16, 2018 by =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn

[CountZero 1316]

Thanks

[=SqSq=switch201 77]

I have noticed this issue on TAW as well, when I was playing on the first map. TAW didn't even register me as having damaged the enemy though so maybe something else is going on. As CountZero was saying. I figure this has to be an issue with the way the gameserver and the stats website communicate. obviously the game is counting these things as kills if they are showing up in the text feed. So the problem must lie with the way the websites are communicating with the game server, since on the client side things seem to be working as intended. 

[CountZero 1316]

since vall relised 1.2.28 web stats update on WoL server airplanes landing not on their airbases and having ditch in stats are now corectly counted as kill from what i could see after they updated it, like in game stats do it.

KOTA is still using old 1.2.27 from what i see on their web stats, so untill they update problem will exist there, and if TAW has same problem that will probably have to be fixed by Kathon.