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Bilbo_Baggins

This is becoming a very well polished sim- and fast

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The latest update with regards in particular to damage modelling has been tremendous. Let's face it- before, the wings sometimes snapped off like twigs, the BF109 entire tail section seemed to occasionally just fall off, not to mention the recent P47 wing spars, and certain machines seemed almost indestructible compared to others. 

 

Upon downloading the update today, I first loaded up a little map I made on the mission editor using constantly re-spawning random AI planes in a swirling dogfight over the Volga river. Battle ensued, however, in a fashion much different from before; I was flying Yak series 69 and putting heavy hits into this AI BF109- he was losing parts of the plane but still flying. I saw the right flap come off, one of the elevators come off, pissing coolant from his right water cooler, canopy perspex smashed, holes all through the fuselage. The machine was basically a wreckage. I then followed him briefly, and soon after, his engine seized solid and he bailed out. 

 

I then grabbed a Messerschmitt and came crashing down on a Yak 1b, landing 20mm hits across his wings- which I'm almost certain would have snapped his mainplane in 2 before this update. Now however, I could see his machine in a complete state of disrepair and he slowly descended, seemingly unable to change course and trying to recover, before ultimately cartwheeling it through the woods.

 

Multiplayer. I was in a BF109F2 and was pounced on from high by a red-nosed Yak series 69. He hit my machine on the first pass well, albeit not critically. The canopy was smashed and the watercooler streaming, but I continued to maneuver. This guy was all over me, taking multiple passes, ammunition exploding across my airframe. I took wounds to my pilot, I lost a whole flap, my elevators were jammed with pitch control only from the stabilizer; the whole airframe was raked with ShKAS 7.62 ammunition. Then... something interesting happened- he actually broke off me and headed back to base. On multiplayer this before was really a rare occurrence when you have a fighter locked onto your 6. It was usually just the case of quick hits either until pilot killed or wing/tail off, and that was it. 

 

...In the end, flying on stabilizer trim with a wounded pilot and airframe shot to all buggery, I managed to crash land the machine just inside friendly territory. Only when I clicked finish flight did it come up with the message and reward this gentleman for the kill. That was good I thought.

 

I think this update changes the entire combat dynamics, especially online. Before, in many engagements you used to have a burst on an aircraft and if you got good hits, either instantly the wing/tail snapped off or the pilot was killed. Once you saw that machine break in 2, you broke off and were sure. Now, the wings and tail section don't snap off anywhere in comparison to before- other systems and structures fail first. Now, the planes go down, but in good time. It far more depends on hits to the motor and lubrication/cooling systems, rather than instantly snapping a wing/pilot kill. As long as you have hit his cooling system, he will go down before too long, but yet his machine will remain in the air for longer. In any case, you will more than likely get the kill. 

 

It is wonderful that the developers are paying this attention to the existing game fundamentals, as well as adding all these splendid machines and content. It was really amazing to see this update, and I'm sure there are others like this yet to come. 

 

RGDS

 

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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Yep I think so too, this 'small' update changed the whole game. I've got so much university work to do right now but I'm absolutely hooked and cant stop flying and dogfighting :biggrin:

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Thanks for your point of view.


I have to agree with you. I had a great experience in both SP and MP (AI has improved too)

First I managed to bring down a He with my rusty I-16. Aiming at the engines he lost one engine and then the other one. It was rewarding. My guns felt like machineguns and I was constantly reminded why bigger guns were used in the latter years.

 

The other one was using a 0.50 cals. I was behind a Ju88 and started to shoot at the engines. As the wheels are stored behind the engine I could see how the part fell apart and the wheel hit my propeller.

 

I can't be more happy with this update. It's a new and beautiful world wich showcases a great Damage model. You can see the need of bigger guns and see the effect. Gorgeous, really gorgeous.

 

I can't stop shooting at things it's great to see them being ripped apart 👹

Edited by LF_Gallahad
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yup, awesome update overall!

 

It's actually interesting how after placing couple of 20mm shell hits on the player, when before you just saw him going down in pieces and you, desensitized, pull away, now you actually have to get a little bit closer and assess the damage you inflicted whilst reflecting if any additional shell spendage on the target is necessary...

 

truly awesome.

Edited by moosya

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2 minutes ago, moosya said:

yup, awesome update overall!

 

It's actually interesting how after placing couple of 20mm shell hits on the player, when before you just saw him going down in pieces and you, desensitized, pull away, now you actually have to get a little bit closer and assess the damage you inflicted whilst reflecting on any additional shell spendage is necessary on the target...

  

 truly awesome.

 

Exactly that. The machine could be in complete ruins, but you don't know if it can get back to friendly lines, let alone a base or not. 

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins

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I couldn't agree more,

 

I played last night trying a few different planes in QMB. I thought the new DM and AI were much better and more realistic.

 

Cheers

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4 minutes ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

Exactly that. The machine can be completely dilapidated, but you don't know if it can get back to friendly lines, let alone a base or not. 

 

on a psychological level it introduces an observable event as well. Does the attacker see the enemy is torn up and gives him a chance to limp back home as far as it can, or like in Roman times, consult his internal animal instinct and thumb down the guy...

Edited by moosya

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This games' progress never ceases to amaze me. Every new dev blog leaves me more excited than the last. No other WWII air combat sim even comes close at this point. And I have no doubts that this series will soon surpass other WWI air combat and WWII tank sim products as well.

 

Keep up the good work team! :clapping:

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Just now, Warpig said:

This games' progress never ceases to amaze me. Every new dev blog leaves me more excited than the last. No other WWII air combat sim even comes close at this point. And I have no doubts that this series will soon surpass other WWI air combat and WWII tank sim products as well.

 

Keep up the good work team! :clapping:

I'd even think that further down the development road it's not unlikely that at some point we'd reach a level of playerbase and addictiveness that the critical game-mass gets cracked and the series sells 5-fold. Dreaming :biggrin:

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Well we'll I told you so since wings fest happened... Bravo me hehe , devs who listens players feedback will make this sim truly great. 

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Best combat sim on the market. Maybe ever. Love the new AI tweaks, much more convincing.

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Yes this sim has come a long way in the last year and a half or so.

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I feel like I have to pull my convergence in closer now.  I had a bad night in multiplayer last night so hoped in sp to test the new dm with the different la5 belts, mig and p40 .50s, bf109 mg151, ect. and feel like I cant shoot as far as I could used to with the same effectiveness, which imo is good. 

 

The only dm thing I would like to see addressed are radial engines, it feels like they are too weak and catch fire more easily than their inline competition.

 

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Methinks the series has got to the stage whereby it is a new form of religion nes pa?

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11 hours ago, 69TD_Joeasyrida said:

The only dm thing I would like to see addressed are radial engines, it feels like they are too weak and catch fire more easily than their inline competition. 

 

 
Agree 100%! The damage model for structural damage is now looking fantastic (albeit with some rough edges. High caliber canon shells are not doing as much damage as I'd expect for example). Huge improvement on before.

However, in my opinion, this highlights the need for more complex engine damage. Now that engine/system damage is more likely to be the reason the plane goes down. I made a list of key changes a while back:

 

On 9/4/2018 at 11:51 PM, peregrine7 said:

 
Well, there's so much wrong with the engine damage model I think this ends up being far down the list (though I haven't heard if the devs are even considering improving their DM).

My priorities would be:

  1. More iterative damage states for engines - The engine shouldn't die so quickly if overworked (especially in the 109, P39, P40, I pretty much solely fly red but blue really gets shafted on this with their main aircraft getting gimped with it). Damage should be iterative, with oil leaks/gasket failures being the primary overworked failure states.
  2. Realistic engine limits / time limits - Don't use peacetime engine limitations as a guide for when the engine will suddenly die. These are woefully conservative. We have wartime limits for the BF109s but peacetime limits for the P39/P40 - engines that took a far bigger beating at the hands of Russian pilots than the manual allowed. That's a bit odd (and frustrating, the P40 engine is a bit of a running joke)
  3. Complex engine damage - When hit by bullets you should see component based failures e.g. Individual cylinder head perforations, blown gaskets, severed electrical systems (engine may still run on residual heat "glow bulb" style), damaged supercharger, damaged governor, damaged shaft/shaft box. Oh and fires.
  4. Fires - Fire in game is very odd. A blown fuel tank fire should look more like a big (but relatively weak) fireball that quickly subsides with relatively little smoke. We should also see fuel line fires (IRL these are the ones that leak burning fuel through the cockpit guages, as was recounted by several pilots), oil pan fires (smouldering things that produce a ton of black smoke and can easily spread through the engine hoses/electrical) and, more rarely, surface and subframe fires on aircraft with flammable components.
  5. Complex engine management - This is where things like MP/RPM ratio comes in.
  6. Realistic fuel flow management - Yeah, it's not specifically engine related. But if I'm in a plane with a big fat yellow knob next to me that allows me to select feed tanks and turn Xflow on/off then I should probably disable Xflow when my wingtank is ruptured. But no, I have to watch all my fuel from all of my tanks drain through a hole in one wing. Even more frustrating in VR where the knob to disable flow to the wing is right there.

 

Edited by peregrine7
Accidentally a word
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1 hour ago, peregrine7 said:

 
Agree 100%! The damage model for structural damage is now looking fantastic (albeit with some rough edges. High caliber canon shells are not doing as much damage as I'd expect for example). Huge improvement on before.

However, in my opinion, this highlights the need for more complex engine damage. Now that engine/system damage is more likely to be the reason the plane goes down. I made a list of key changes a while

 

 

Agreed, this sim its way more immersive now, more realistic and fun now after 3.08 update.

Its not just shoot and kill anymore, more head game, get good hits and leave them smoking, look for next target, they will die most of the time with some good hits.(You just dont have to see the wing or tail coming off)

 

Agreed with your engine damage list , hope that is the next step, it will make it an amazing WWII sim even better.

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15 hours ago, 307_Tomcat said:

Well we'll I told you so since wings fest happened... Bravo me hehe , devs who listens players feedback will make this sim truly great. 

 

Tomcat, I don't understand what you're referring to here. What's the wings fest and when did it take place?

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As much as I love this sim and think that the devs are the best in the business, I cant let the OP's post go.

 

1) It is very far from being "polished".

 

2) It has not been "fast", it has taken 5 years.

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100% agree with the topic starter. I (and not only I) was writing here many times before how the planes are too gragile compared to RL (specially wings). Now its more like what we can see in guncams and read from real pilot interviews.

 

1 hour ago, AeroAce said:

As much as I love this sim and think that the devs are the best in the business, I cant let the OP's post go.

 

1) It is very far from being "polished".

2) It has not been "fast", it has taken 5 years.

1) Its getting there...

2) Well its not a warthunder right? Its a simulator game not a "game with airplanes".

Edited by blackram
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2 minutes ago, blackram said:

100% agree with the topic starter. I (and not only I) was writing here many times before how the planes are too gragile compared to RL (specially wings). Now its more like what we can see in guncams and read from real pilot interviews.

 

1) Its getting there...

2) Well its not a warthunder right? Its a simulator game not a "game with airplanes".

 

1) Polished is there, not "getting there".

 

2) Yes it is a sim, you are very observant.

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Just now, AeroAce said:

 

1) Polished is there, not "getting there".

 

2) Yes it is a sim, you are very observant.

 

Wow, it is like listening to Yoda-AeroAce!

Just missing the Mmmm!

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1 hour ago, AeroAce said:

1) It is very far from being "polished".

 

2 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

1) Polished is there, not "getting there".

 

?
Maybe it's just an English problem, but I don't get your point here!

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1 minute ago, -IRRE-Centx said:

 

 

?
Maybe it's just an English problem, but I don't get your point here!

 

Yes English problem. You need to follow through the replies that I got.

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1 hour ago, AeroAce said:

As much as I love this sim and think that the devs are the best in the business, I cant let the OP's post go.

 

1) It is very far from being "polished".

 

2) It has not been "fast", it has taken 5 years.

 

No flightsim will ever become totally polished - but I don´t know any other sim as stable, good looking, well performing and complete as the Il-2 BOX series.

 

5 Years develeopment from the first IL-2 BOS and until now might sound as a long time.

But at every point of time, expect at the point where we had unlocks, this series has been superiour to other competitors.

IL-2 BOS, BOM, BOK has each been complete on their own, but with new features and enhancements ported over to the former titles.

 

Generally the developers here are constantly delivering what they have promised and on top of that also constantly optimised the entire game.

Graphics has been improved and at the same time performance ahs become better and smoother - at least on my rig.

 

Another  competitor releases one early acces module after the other without finsishing them, and the core/base flightsim doesn´t get optimised, rather the performance egts worse after each update.

 

Personally I´m really happy with my purcases of IL-2BC, FC and TC and still needs to feel cheated be the devs.

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1 minute ago, fjacobsen said:

 

No flightsim will ever become totally polished - but I don´t know any other sim as stable, good looking, well performing and complete as the Il-2 BOX series.

 

5 Years develeopment from the first IL-2 BOS and until now might sound as a long time.

But at every point of time, expect at the point where we had unlocks, this series has been superiour to other competitors.

IL-2 BOS, BOM, BOK has each been complete on their own, but with new features and enhancements ported over to the former titles.

 

Generally the developers here are constantly delivering what they have promised and on top of that also constantly optimised the entire game.

Graphics has been improved and at the same time performance ahs become better and smoother - at least on my rig.

 

Another  competitor releases one early acces module after the other without finsishing them, and the core/base flightsim doesn´t get optimised, rather the performance egts worse after each update.

 

Personally I´m really happy with my purcases of IL-2BC, FC and TC and still needs to feel cheated be the devs.

 

 

I agree with all of this!!! 

 

All I wanted to say is that is it not polished and it was not fast to get to this stage!

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5 hours ago, AeroAce said:

 

 

I agree with all of this!!! 

 

All I wanted to say is that is it not polished and it was not fast to get to this stage!

 

I think is a matter of perspective.

To me is getting polished, understanding it like a continuous process.  Every polishing job unveiling new characteristics and enhancing the previous ones.

5 years to me is quite fast for the sim industry and if we compare to other product.

 

Your answer is as good as mine or the OP´s. It is an opinion.

Edited by HR_Zunzun

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Just now, AeroAce said:

 

 

I agree with all of this!!! 

 

All I wanted to say is that is it not polished and it was not fast to get to this stage!

 

I'm sure that the OP mentioned that the sim "Was becoming a polished sim" and I didn't read or believe that he inferred that it was polished! In addition, I think that he was referring to how fast that this up-date on the back of the other one had arrived!  

However, once again from my limited observations of you in this sim and indeed on MP you are always in one server and in a Spit, so perhaps try other servers and experience other airframes before you start the doom and gloom statements!

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11 minutes ago, HR_Zunzun said:

 

I think is a matter of perspective.

To me is getting polished, understanding it like a continuous process.  Every polishing job unveiling new characteristics and enhancing the previous ones.

5 years to me is quite fast for the sim industry and if we compare to other product.

 

Your answer is as good at mine or the OP. It is an opinion.

 

I agree!!!

9 minutes ago, Haza said:

 

I'm sure that the OP mentioned that the sim "Was becoming a polished sim" and I didn't read or believe that he inferred that it was polished! In addition, I think that he was referring to how fast that this up-date on the back of the other one had arrived!  

However, once again from my limited observations of you in this sim and indeed on MP you are always in one server and in a Spit, so perhaps try other servers and experience other airframes before you start the doom and gloom statements!

 

It does not matter if I only play 1 plane... it is what I still see that is not "polished" that has been here from day one: GUI, ICONS, BAD NET CODE, silly bugs, no offical MP, NO EASY FMB, BUGED IN GAME HOSTING ......

 

Anyway I love this sim and the above examples for me are what is "polish".

 

lets just leave it there.

Edited by AeroAce
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5 hours ago, AeroAce said:

 

1) Polished is there, not "getting there".

 

2) Yes it is a sim, you are very observant.

1) And what polished means to you? Its kinda not applyable to any game isnt it? Good devs always improving things in game....thers no perfect game, much less perfect combat sim game which is a part of super small market...

2) What I was trying to say...to make one plane, and one plane "right" in IL2 GB devs will need much more time than in some arcade or semi arcade or less detailed sim. And you know that.

 

Are you trolling us...ohh wait, you bought everything from them...but why do you trash your money on something you dont like. Just to whine all the time?

 

Ive been very critic in the past (and Im still) when I think something should be improved or is not right. But "not polished" remark is funny. What the ....that means anyway.

Edited by blackram

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I agree in part. Ongoing development of features already included ingame speaks very well of the devs. It is the main reason I think it`s been worth buying each and every GB title.

 

That said, you can`t change reality. 5 years is a long time for any game and I`m not sure how much more life Great Battles has.  As far as I`m concerned, 1CGS should already be thinking about giving birth to the successor.

 

About the DM I`m not so sure how I rate the upgrade. Was flying about 15 hours on 3.008 against AI of all sides and I haven`t noticed any big changes. Well, maybe besides P47 taking multiple 30mm/37mm hits without much problem. At the same time, I noticed tearing off wings at the root is as easy as ever now., on any plane be it light, medium or heavy. Some aircraft take ridiculous amount of damage to the fuselage and wings now whereas one hit of any calibre to the engine strikes flames of death almost instantly.

 

It feels wrong to me, I`m just saying.

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21 minutes ago, Mac_Messer said:

As far as I`m concerned, 1CGS should already be thinking about giving birth to the successor.

 

I really don't hope so. IL2 GB is a great quality sim and there is still too much we could do with it.

I think the business model is changing for many games nowadays. What would be the purpose of a new IL2, a new Warthunder or a new Elite Dangerous ? These games are kind of releasing their own successors every year already. 

Edited by kem

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Games go on for over 10 plus years now. It's not 1990 anymore where technology progressed so fast, that games got outdated in a year.

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20 hours ago, pilotpierre said:

Methinks the series has got to the stage whereby it is a new form of religion nes pa?

 

Praise be brother.  IL2 is a light unto my flylng path. 

 

Yea, though I walk through the shadow of lesser simulations, I shall not partake of them. Amen.

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There are at least seven major battle zones, not including the Eastern Front ones I don't know about that the Great Battles team can pursue before the game would even threaten to get stale. 

 

That said, the features and additions over the past year, in particular, are what tipped it from "interesting, but not worth getting" to "must have" for me. VR, the US planes, transonics, the new campaign system, and the damage modeling are big game changers for me.

 

I have not been this excited to play a flight sim since the first time I flew the original Il-2 Sturmovik. 

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1 hour ago, Mac_Messer said:

I agree in part. Ongoing development of features already included ingame speaks very well of the devs. It is the main reason I think it`s been worth buying each and every GB title.

 

That said, you can`t change reality. 5 years is a long time for any game and I`m not sure how much more life Great Battles has.  As far as I`m concerned, 1CGS should already be thinking about giving birth to the successor.

 

About the DM I`m not so sure how I rate the upgrade. Was flying about 15 hours on 3.008 against AI of all sides and I haven`t noticed any big changes. Well, maybe besides P47 taking multiple 30mm/37mm hits without much problem. At the same time, I noticed tearing off wings at the root is as easy as ever now., on any plane be it light, medium or heavy. Some aircraft take ridiculous amount of damage to the fuselage and wings now whereas one hit of any calibre to the engine strikes flames of death almost instantly.

 

It feels wrong to me, I`m just saying.

Your lack of faith disturbs me

 

Jokes aside. A sucessor? Really?
I think we are just at the point of the iceberg. Every year the development goes faster and we have more and more features. I don't mind if we have this pace for the next 10 years if they keep improving (as they are doing) the game and adding new things... I will buy their content as they have shown focus, dedication and, I have fun flying.

Edited by LF_Gallahad
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I can only agree with Gallahad.

Il-2 has really made a name for itself over the years and is now equipped with a good collection. I really hope that with the expansions (which will surely come soon) more content will be added from all over the world. The Mediterranean, Pacific, China, Spanish Civil War would be wonderful with their own machines.  The integration of Tank Crew and Flying Circus alone is wonderful. With each new location, the whole series becomes one aspect richer, and that's what I really love.

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3 hours ago, Mac_Messer said:

5 years is a long time for any game and I`m not sure how much more life Great Battles has.  As far as I`m concerned, 1CGS should already be thinking about giving birth to the successor.

 

It takes a huge amount of money and a huge amount of work to make this kind of sim. Just look at the old il2 (much less amount of work because much less details and realism)

It needs a specialized team who work a lot with overtime, for a very very tiny income (Russian Income!). Those kind of very talented , dedicated people are so scarce.

I believe that this sim will be last at least 10 more years, I hope for much more!

Only a brand new engine with much more capabilities than the current one might (!) be interesting for a successor , with more player base.

The attractiveness of this kind of flight sim is not the shiny engine, but the amount of planes, theaters and gameplay.

Honestly I do not believe this sim will have a true successor given the so low player base. Except if the planes could be easily imported.

I might be wrong, please correct me.

 

 

Edited by TG1_Nil
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Just flying the P-40 against ground targets (that keep shooting me down...) So far I've crashed on takeoff and watched a stray tire go rolling, wobbling off into the distance, plowed through a copse of trees and lost various parts multiple times, ended up pancaked upside down, with each wing breaking in a different way, with one of the wings staying attached, though cracked for a while, before it finally had enough and gave way with a loud crack.

 

The damage modelling in this game is really really cool, the way things fail in complex and emergent ways. The physics work that went into this is fantastic. The original IL-2 had that sense of wonder to it too. I still remember that one time when I'd just started learning it, and I'd misjudged a pass against a German bomber and caught my left wingtip on its fuselage; the force (and the fidelity of the physics engine) was enough to to flip my plane over the top of its fuselage, and drive me straight through its wing on the other side.

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