Game version 3.008 discussion: Damage model update, fixes and improvements

[AnPetrovich]

1 hour ago, 3./JG15_HansPhilipp said:

28. Bodenplatte pilots put on and remove oxygen mask when needed;

Is this "automatic" or manual, by players?

It's "automatic" and depends on oxygen availability.

[SAS_Storebror]

59 minutes ago, xJammer said:

I wonder how does this affect 30mm HE cannons? Brief testing right now and it seem to do very little even when hit near the pilot's canopy from the side (strafing stationary aircraft, no pilot kills).

Killing stationary aircraft has always been a very tough job compared to "real" ones IMHO.

 

Mike

Edited December 5, 2018 by SAS_Storebror
removing quadruple post lol :D

[[110]xJammer]

Just now, SAS_Storebror said:

Killing stationary aircraft has always been a very tough job compared to "real" ones IMHO.

 

Mike

Killing stationary aircraft has always been a very tough job compared to "real" ones IMHO.

 

Mike

Killing stationary aircraft has always been a very tough job compared to "real" ones IMHO.

 

Mike

Killing stationary aircraft has always been a very tough job compared to "real" ones IMHO.

 

Mike

 

 

See my update on the PE2 AI tests while in flight.

[SAS_Storebror]

Fine, thanks.

I think much more than a video of the test, a recording with both .trk and .acmi files would make further investigation easier.

 

Mike

[NO_SQDeriku777]

18 minutes ago, JimTM said:

Oh no! More editor manual changes!   

 

2. New control elements added to mission logic (useful for mission designers): "Modifier: Add Val" and "Modifier: Set Val". They can alter the values of other logical elements - Counter and Timer (when used with a Timer object, Set Val can input a negative value to reset and stop a Timer);

 

5. AA searchlights now can follow Attack Area command which can be used to limit their search area and/or use them as visible beacons (useful for mission designers);

 

Nice update devs. Thanks!  

 I was wondering if experienced mission designers such as yourself could elaborate on the possibilities these new control elements open up.  Also, I am curious if BlackSix has incorporated them into his newly released scripted campaign.  

[LF_Gallahad]

After some tests I can say it's great. I see the new AP hit FX and also, airplanes seems to rip apart while on fire with big guns. I can't believe some people here.

 

It takes less for a Pe2 to go down as you take down his engines, controls or whatever. The guy won't be leaking fuel only.

[[110]xJammer]

Just now, LF_Gallahad said:

After some tests I can say it's great. I see the new AP hit FX and also, airplanes seems to rip apart while on fire with big guns. I can't believe some people here.

 

It takes less for a Pe2 to go down as you take down his engines, controls or whatever. The guy won't be leaking fuel only.

 

 

Here are the tests that I did. starting at 2:45

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by xJammer

[LF_Gallahad]

12 minutes ago, xJammer said:

 

 

Here are the tests that I did. starting at 2:45

 

I doubt many of those planes come back after the first shot. Take also in account that people won't shot a single round of Mk108 or only use the cannon. No matter how things change, people won't be happy and we don't have an exact input of how many shots did a 109 need to take out a Pe 2 with a Mk108 so at the end it's just a matter of extrapolation and how people think this plane could take out this one.

 

I see a better DM, you may see a worse one 🤷‍♂️

Edited December 5, 2018 by LF_Gallahad

[[110]xJammer]

Just now, LF_Gallahad said:

I doubt many of those planes come back after the first shot. Take also in account that people won't shot a single round of Mk108 or only use the cannon.

 

 

The test is to check how many 108 rounds it takes to bring down a pe2. Your argument makes no sense. Those aircraft were fully capable to fly home because they had no visible engine damage (oil/water leak), and maybe you could argue it is the fuel leaking out that will get them - but you can leak fuel even with mg17, don't need 30mms for that.

[LF_Gallahad]

2 minutes ago, xJammer said:

 

 

The test is to check how many 108 rounds it takes to bring down a pe2. Your argument makes no sense. Those aircraft were fully capable to fly home because they had no visible engine damage (oil/water leak), and maybe you could argue it is the fuel leaking out that will get them - but you can leak fuel even with mg17, don't need 30mms for that.

I see engine damage multiple times alongside fuel leaks, possible control damage after a second or third shot and many losses of control surfaces. 

I make sense, for me.

Also, can we really say we have proof? for both sides, you and me?

 

I am not telling you are wrong I am telling you that it's easier to down a Pe 2 now.

Edited December 5, 2018 by LF_Gallahad

[JimTM]

17 minutes ago, NO_SQDeriku777 said:

 I was wondering if experienced mission designers such as yourself could elaborate on the possibilities these new control elements open up.  Also, I am curious if BlackSix has incorporated them into his newly released scripted campaign.  

 

As far as the new items go, I'm an inexperienced mission designer. I'll need to play in the editor a bit to figure out the new items. Perhaps a sharper knife in the drawer will chime in before long. 

[LukeFF]

The pilot models are so stunning, it's amazing how great they look.

[Jason_Williams]

Cool it. Test elsewhere.

 

Jason

[LeLv30_Redwing]

Dear Devs,

 

I see you are addressing also editor issues so hear my cry and please help all mission builders with a simple fix; instead of port_up_unit_XXX let us have ammo containers and boxes which are on the ground or unlock the y-axis. I'm sure everyone who is building missions would appreciate this simple task for you with great joy, because it really gives options to build targets. Thanks in advance!

Edited December 5, 2018 by LeLv30_Redwing
spelling

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

3 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

The pilot models are so stunning, it's amazing how great they look.

Yeah, the new tankie examples (last week) were not lighted as well as the pilots but holy cow. The pilot examples looked like a Hollywood costuming photo.

Edited December 5, 2018 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[LF_Gallahad]

4 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

The pilot models are so stunning, it's amazing how great they look.

Yeah, can't wait to see my RAF dude riding a Tempest!

[Ouky1991]

It's almost impossible to shoot off wings even with mk 108. What the hell?

[II./JG77_Manu*]

14 minutes ago, LF_Gallahad said:

Take also in account that people won't shot a single round of Mk108 or only use the cannon. No matter how things change, people won't be happy and we don't have an exact input of how many shots did a 109 need to take out a Pe 2 with a Mk108 so at the end it's just a matter of extrapolation and how people think this plane could take out this one.

 

It needed 3-4 shots to down a B-17 on average, so i guess we can be pretty sure less then that was needed for a Pe2

[Korowiov]

Might be a weird question but is there any way to disable those animations? I kinda liked my pilot to have the mask all the time.

 

[sevenless]

19 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

It needed 3-4 shots to down a B-17 on average, so i guess we can be pretty sure less then that was needed for a Pe2

 

Look at this sequence starting at 2:03 to 3:33. That is a Me 110 G2 attacking a B17. Armament of the Me 110 G2 is 2xMK-108 30mm, 2xMG-151 20mm .

 

 

This is the same film material, with better quality. Look 7:17 - 9-17, same sequence as above:

 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by sevenless

[SYN_Haashashin]

Allways loved B-17´s, those beasts can take a good beating and get back home..even a no defended one as the one in the video (MGs are not moving at all)

 

But that´s totally off topic, please keep it on topic.

 

Haash

 

 

[[110]xJammer]

6 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Look at this sequence starting at 2:03 to 3:33. That is a Me 110 G2 attacking a B17. Armament of the Me 110 G2 is 2xMK-108 30mm, 2xMG-151 20mm .

 

With such a poor quality it is impossible to tell what was fired, where it hit and if the 110 even had any 108 ammo left at that point.

 

Guys lets move this to a separate thread to help the devs figure out if there is an error with the 30mms!

Edited December 5, 2018 by xJammer

[sevenless]

3 minutes ago, SYN_Haashashin said:

..even a no defended one as the one in the video (MGs are not moving at all)

 

Haash, if you look closely you can see that the 110 selectively killed off Tailgunner and Ballturret gunner before getting closer and "working" on the engines. Terrible times that were back then.

[Voidhunger]

19 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

It needed 3-4 shots to down a B-17 on average, so i guess we can be pretty sure less then that was needed for a Pe2

Look at the well known video of Me163 attacking B17. min. 3 hits with Mk108 .damaged/desteoyed inner ingine, dorsal turret and elevator.  And B17 landed at home airfield.

[SYN_Haashashin]

Please no more off topic, I was part of those so...my mistake.

 

Haash

[rolikiraly]

I haven't read the whole thread, but let me explain my opinion on this:

There is no reason to say things like "look, i was right" or "so it really wasn't really perfect after all, right?" or "it's a long overdue fix for xy plane". 

It's not like the devs finally admitted they were wrong, they've just probably found some ways to do it better within the technical limitations. They never said it's 100% like the real thing, let alone 100% like what you expect.

Also it won't ever be like that as long as it's a simplified simulation of physics. 

BTW it seems like a nice update, and thanks for all who provided useful feedback/sources that actually helped the devs, if there were such people.

[Ehret]

10 minutes ago, xJammer said:

With such a poor quality it is impossible to tell what was fired, where it hit and if the 110 even had any 108 ammo left at that point.

 

Where rounds hit that's clearly visible - part of the tail, fuselage, inner wings and engines nacelles. I counted at least 20 exploding hits; few of them seem to be much brighter than others.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Ehret

[catchthefoxes]

does anyone think well get some planes when the tanks are released?

[ACG_Kroko]

Few minutes ago, i called the ministry of defense and suggested them, to exchange ineffective, obsolete 20- 27mm aircraft armament by something (more powerful)  as the minigun or GshG-7,62.

Edited December 5, 2018 by I./ZG1_Krokodilor

[Ehret]

1 minute ago, catchthefoxes said:

does anyone think well get some planes when the tanks are released?

 

Could be. For planes which they would be? For the Axis side the Dora for sure; but for Allies? I have no idea - perhaps, someone else has?

[Voidhunger]

Cant wait to test this patch thorougly later this evening.

6 minutes ago, catchthefoxes said:

does anyone think well get some planes when the tanks are released?

Tanks are scheduled in Q1 next year.

[=FEW=Hauggy]

Nice update!

These are some eagerly awaited fixes! The German planes felt incredibly OP due to their HE damage! And the P-47 felt insanely weak.

Thanks!

I really hope that this helps general server performance a bit too because lately it's been real bad.

Edited December 5, 2018 by =FEW=Hauggy

[13Nrv]

Thanks for the FFB updating , not enough time to test until this week end but will do it on saturday/sunday ....

It s a long awaited update for all the people who own an MS FFB2 and a Track IR to get rid of those silly stuttering we are facing with  ffb on .

Thanks Devs both  for the work and to take care of what we are saying in this forum

13

Edited December 5, 2018 by 13Nrv

[Lubos]

2 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

Excellent work! Thankyou so much for the fixes and additional content, especially the RAF pilot . I've been looking forward to meeting him since I first heard about the work in progress.

 

It's time to go screenie mad!

 

B..but where is the female version? Just kidding, thanks for what looks like a great update.

[-Six-Motivated]

Are the damage decals still the same for aircraft? The current ones we have now look quite bad as they're all low-resolution.

[Thad]

1 hour ago, JimTM said:

 

As far as the new items go, I'm an inexperienced mission designer. I'll need to play in the editor a bit to figure out the new items. Perhaps a sharper knife in the drawer will chime in before long. 

 

I am impressed. A truly wise person knows and acknowledges ones weaknesses. 😀

[Legioneod]

1 hour ago, Ouky1991 said:

It's almost impossible to shoot off wings even with mk 108. What the hell?

You must be missing then. I have no problems shooting down anything with the Mk 108, destroys P-47s and other things in one shot most of the time.

[Nightrise]

all my ammo in a yak 1b to kill a single 109. what is this  🙃

[I./JG1_Baron]

1 minute ago, ACG_Nightrise said:

all my ammo in a yak 1b to kill a single 109. what is this  🙃

 

 

Thats new era of dogfights

[Nightrise]

Just now, I./JG1_Baron said:

 

 

Thats new era of dogfights

Its terrible i dont like it at all