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Game version 3.008 discussion: Damage model update, fixes and improvements

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After new patch game crashed sometimes  without any reason.

I've nothing changed on my machine or game settings. Sometimes game crashed to Win, sometimes to main menu.

 

Ramm.

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2 minutes ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

RE: patch notes vagueness

 

 May stop all the community guess work and arguments.

 

Then what would we do with ourselves. I mean, really :) :)

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45 minutes ago, Sunde said:

Uhm... I think your term "wasted" is correct. 
If you hit a Lagg with even 5-10 20mm shots its probably gonna have a hard time...

however firing and hitting are not the same! (duh) 

 

Oh really? Well according to the sortie log he got 99 hits from me plus he also took damage from another 109 and fw190. Check the log here: http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/3788178/?tour=42

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A big thanks to the dev team for keeping the improvements coming. The new TAW campaign has given me the opportunity to rediscover some of the early planesets and I continue to be impressed by the amount of work and dedication that clearly went into even the less-flashy workhorses like the Bf110e and Ju88. BoX has been one of my best entertainment purchases in some time, and the steady tempo of updates always gives me something to look forward to. Thanks again.

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The old Damage Model might have needed some minor adjustment here and there, but this new damage model of the 20 mm HE is just ridiculous. Was on the dead six of a Mig, really close, he didn't notice me at all, gave him a full burst of 20mm and Machineguns, checked the log afterwards,  26 full hits into his plane. That would have been a sure Knock-Out before the Patch. Thanks to the the new damage model he was just leaking some coolant and landed his plane safely on a nearby airfield. Thanks for the new patch, but the new damage model  needs some more tweaking!

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=27473&name=I./JG62_Knipser

Edited by I./JG62_Knipser
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7 minutes ago, I./JG62_Knipser said:

The old Damage Model might have needed some minor adjustment here and there, but this new damage model of the 20 mm HE is just ridiculous. Was on the dead six of a Mig, really close, he didn't notice me at all, gave him a full burst of 20mm and Machineguns, checked the log afterwards,  26 full hits into his plane. That would have been a sure Knock-Out before the Patch. Thanks to the the new damage model he was just leaking some coolant and landed his plane safely on a nearby airfield. Thanks for the new patch, but the new damage model  needs some more tweaking!

 

Yep. Did you see my log above? That was even more ridiculous, that lagg was able to absorb more damage than a Pe-2 before the update. To be fair, 109's wings also seem to be able to survive far more hits now.

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ohh goodie, now endless debate and crying 😭will ensue again... where is the popcorn :popcorm:

I'm sure its going be be great.

(the patch not the crying)

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All welcome improvements, thank you for the continued hard work and consistency that makes this sim as wonderful as it is. :salute:

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dm is open to interpretation and will always be a point of contention...

going to take weeks of testing , 1 encounter is a BS way to judge anything...

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* This block may contain incorrect information, this is due to the errors in the game log.

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Always excited for and happy to see AI improvements. Please keep them (and all other improvements) coming!!

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8 minutes ago, moosya said:

* This block may contain incorrect information, this is due to the errors in the game log.

 

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure my eyes displayed incorrect information when I was playing too. Anyway, I'm just trying to say that something might be wrong about the new damage model, no need to get immediately so defensive. After all, we all want the same thing and that's for the game to be as good as it can.

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I have the impression that the throttle lever of the P 47 has changed or did I miss something?

 

Have a nice day.

 

:salute:

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31 minutes ago, Lubos said:

 

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure my eyes displayed incorrect information when I was playing too. Anyway, I'm just trying to say that something might be wrong about the new damage model, no need to get immediately so defensive. After all, we all want the same thing and that's for the game to be as good as it can.

 

you sent me to the stat page and that text in red jumped out.. so there.. 😄

 

i haven't played it yet, so i'm just getting a kick of the 'business as usual' interaction on the forum here..

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1 minute ago, moosya said:

 

you sent me to the stat page and that text in red jumped out.. so there.. 😄

 

i haven't played it yet, so i'm just getting a kick of the 'business as usual' interaction on the forum here..

 

As far as I know the red text refers to the fact that in some cases the log shows that you fired all of your shots even though you didn't. Which means the gunner accuracy is also incorrect in this case. I believe this sometimes happens when you crash. But the number of shots that hit the target should always be accurate. In this case I really did see that plane taking insane amount of hits, so I don't doubt that the number is accurate.

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2 hours ago, I./JG62_Knipser said:

The old Damage Model might have needed some minor adjustment here and there, but this new damage model of the 20 mm HE is just ridiculous. Was on the dead six of a Mig, really close, he didn't notice me at all, gave him a full burst of 20mm and Machineguns, checked the log afterwards,  26 full hits into his plane. That would have been a sure Knock-Out before the Patch. Thanks to the the new damage model he was just leaking some coolant and landed his plane safely on a nearby airfield. Thanks for the new patch, but the new damage model  needs some more tweaking!

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=27473&name=I./JG62_Knipser

Yep. I’m going to have to do some formal testing but I already have a feeling that the “cure”  is worse than the “disease” in this case The “disease” was basically people feeling like the Jug was too easy to de-wing. Well congrats guys, now you can potentially  put your entire .50s ammo load into an enemy A/C’s stern and not get the kill. Enjoy your perfectly intact wings while struggling to control an aircraft that was damaged to hell because you couldn’t put down the bandit and go back on lookout in a reasonable amount of time.

Edited by CMBailey
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The humanity my pilot and co-pilot getting their instrument panels shot out

flying preciously needed cargo to MP bases on the map in the JU-52.

 

Just don't model my coffee machine and refrigerator for my sandwiches

and snacks being damaged or my co-pilot will quit and my PTSD gunner will

never get in the plane again without coffee.

 

Nice job team.

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I made a video of 3.008 TEST: Dogfight with 3 spitfire, shoot them all down, I still have remainig ammo.
1st spit was tough,he eat so many 13mm and couple of 30mm without crash.
2nd spit was normal.

3rd spit seems didn't saw me, close six onslaught was worked.

 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/JrPnst4Ycx0

I'm intreasting why 01:04 he firing guns in the AIR!?

Edited by Takuya_liang
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Glad to see the updates, some good improvements in there.

 

Normally my game updates automagically when I start it up, but apparently not this time. I've tried starting through steam also but no joy. It keeps telling me I need to update and won't go past the black IL-2 loading screen. Anyone else having this issue?

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Got a chance to fly tonight.

AI seems to use vertical maneuvers a bit more, even at lower levels. Got into a few rolling scissors with 109s! That was cool. Of course the career sent me into a few hairy spots of me and two wingmen vs. 6 109Es and 4 109F4s. That was pretty hairy.

109s are harder to catastrophically kill but I managed to de-wing one with a single short burst of 20mm and light MG. Most of my other kills were hits to engines etc. 

First impression is that 109s are somewhat more durable but my own craft (flying the yak-1) doesn't feel too different. Got dewinged at least once by 109G2s, and several other times did enough damage to force me to ditch with a dead engine.

If my gunnery was better I think I'd have gotten more kills, as it is I waste a lot of ammo lol, and the yak isn't exactly blessed with an abundance.

DM will take some getting used to but it doesn't seem too bad, nice to see some small improvements in AI. 

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21 minutes ago, CMBailey said:

Yep. I’m going to have to do some formal testing but I already have a feeling that the “cure”  is worse than the “disease” in this case The “disease” was basically people feeling like the Jug was too easy to de-wing. Well congrats guys, now you can potentially  put your entire .50s ammo load into an enemy A/C’s stern and not get the kill. Enjoy your perfectly intact wings while struggling to control an aircraft that was damaged to hell because you couldn’t put down the bandit and go back on lookout in a reasonable amount of time. 

 

what? I've scored about the same amount of kills, maybe a little less but with a lot higher feeling of this being right. It now really looks a lot like on guncams.

Also the 50ies are deadly as they should be, just hit the vital parts. hit engine, tanks or ammo and the enemy plane will go down veery quickly.

 

I really think its nice the 109 can take more of a beating now, feels very satisfiying to fill it with holes and see it flying still and crashing then because the pilot lost control.

 

One thing often forgotten here is that flying bombers is not the suicide trap anymore it used to be for a long time, getting continously dewinged by AA or fighters.

Edited by 216th_Jordan
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Just now, 216th_Jordan said:

 

what? I've scored about the same amount of kills, maybe a little less but with a lot higher feeling of this being right. It now really looks a lot like on guncams.

Also the 50ies are deadly as they should be, just hit the vital parts. hit engine, tanks or ammo and the enemy plane will go down veery quickly.

Agreed, I get roughly the same number of kills its just they appear less catastrophic. With the Yak's ammo load I was averaging 1 kill/sortie before patch, and the same after patch. My gunnery is crap and usually I end up killing one and maiming another with only LMG left.

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6 minutes ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

what? I've scored about the same amount of kills, maybe a little less but with a lot higher feeling of this being right. It now really looks a lot like on guncams.

Also the 50ies are deadly as they should be, just hit the vital parts. hit engine, tanks or ammo and the enemy plane will go down veery quickly.

 

I really think its nice the 109 can take more of a beating now, feels very satisfiying to fill it with holes and see it flying still and crashing then because the pilot lost control.

 

One thing often forgotten here is that flying bombers is not the suicide trap anymore it used to be for a long time, getting continously dewinged by AA or fighters.

If you fly against humans who know you are there and against the gyrations that humans do in this game you will see why this is a problem. If passing through the enemy’s snapshot envelope at close range isn’t reasonably likely to end the fight then ACM is no longer chess, it’s more like rolling dice. The ability to pass through a snap shot relatively intact also rewards stick-stirring over actual guns defense and reversals even more than was previously the case. Furthermore, a generalized nerfing of the gun’s damage potential disproportionately nerfs the boom and zoom/energy fighters, since they must generally content themselves with snapshot opportunities rather than “saddling up”. 

 

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1 minute ago, CMBailey said:

If you fly against humans who know you are there and against the gyrations that humans do in this game you will see why this is a problem. If passing through the enemy’s snapshot envelope at close range isn’t reasonably likely to end the fight then ACM is no longer chess, it’s more like rolling dice. The ability to pass through a snap shot relatively intact also rewards stick-stirring over actual guns defense and reversals even more than was previously the case. Furthermore, a generalized nerfing of the gun’s damage potential disproportionately nerfs the boom and zoom/energy fighters, since they must generally content themselves with snapshot opportunities rather than “saddling up”. 

 

 

All experiences I stated have been made online on Berloga and TAW. Snapshotted planes just fine. High angle from sides still leads to quick engine kills, fires or pilot kills. It wasn't a game of chess before, it was putting your chances on one card and getting that lucky hit. Now ACM is what counts, made a proper target approach and you get to pin down your enemy in the nicest ways. There has been no nerfing of guns, there has been an upgrade into how explosion forces affect spars and load bearing structure and that in the right way. Not everything is fine and some things will need some fixes in future but the general picture proves to be very nice. Seen lots of nice dogfights today.

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2 hours ago, FlyingShark said:

I have the impression that the throttle lever of the P 47 has changed or did I miss something?

 

Nope

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1 hour ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

All experiences I stated have been made online on Berloga and TAW. Snapshotted planes just fine. High angle from sides still leads to quick engine kills, fires or pilot kills. It wasn't a game of chess before, it was putting your chances on one card and getting that lucky hit. Now ACM is what counts, made a proper target approach and you get to pin down your enemy in the nicest ways. There has been no nerfing of guns, there has been an upgrade into how explosion forces affect spars and load bearing structure and that in the right way. Not everything is fine and some things will need some fixes in future but the general picture proves to be very nice. Seen lots of nice dogfights today.

I easily captured multiple films in just a few minutes of hammering down on enemy A/C with good bursts from under 400 to over-running them in multi-player without them being knocked out of the fight. Either you haven't been using 8X.50s in multiplayer (offline drones DO give up the ghost or bale when you put in a good burst still, so all the SP players won't care) or you haven't been paying attention.  "Booming and zooming" with .50s at least is out, as a high speed pass can hardly be expected upon to knock out a plane now. Take an opponent who actually sees you and is stick-stirring vigorously and chances fall to near zero. I haven't tested 20mms each, but if they have been rendered equally ineffective then the Mk. 108, which should be a tad of ridiculous over-kill for fighter-on-fighter, might in fact now be the only really viable gun package.

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Unexpected update!

 

These fix updates are as important as content updates, so very happy to see it. If only the devs at my job were half as good as IL2s... we would do wonders. Keep up the great work!!

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5 hours ago, FlyingShark said:

I have the impression that the throttle lever of the P 47 has changed or did I miss something?

 

Have a nice day.

 

:salute:

 

FlyingShark,

 

Hopefully this link below might be helpful if you are referring to a similar encounter/question that I raised!?

Therefore, I do not believe that the throttle has changed, although it would appear that there are two types, depending on whether you select gyro-guns sights or not and therefore perhaps you have not realized this level of detail, as i overlooked this as well.

 

Regards

 

 

 

Edited by Haza
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Thanks for the very surprising update, I had a chance to fly some QMB last night....... brilliant stuff!!

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I like the new DM very much. I have tested it now several times on the Jug, both with the 20mm and with the 30mm and even if you now need a few more hits, it is still fine.  Also hits in the engine and pilot are always critical/lethal. Great Work Devs 😄

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