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Why is there no teamwork from English speakers?


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I've never seen a sim that doesn't organically have a lot of people working together on TS or Discord. Look at every server on DCS and you'll see everyone using comms.  What is the issue here?  I haven't played for about a year and was excited to come back, but in the two days I've been flying I haven't seen a single person that speaks English on Discord or TS for the server.  

 

The Russians seem to have it together.  What's going on?

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Who knows? Two days back? Not much to go on. What servers were you on... What time(s) of day were your on. Could be anything.

 

Perhaps English speakers are just not sociable. 😀

 

Perhaps the differing time zones and servers  that players fly on has something to do with it.  :salute:

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Yes, for some reason Russians are more likely to be in TS. There is a group of English speaking pilots on TS as well, though it is smaller. They usually hang out on the "Official BoS" TS. For example, @Mobile_BBQ is often there. I also join it if I am flying a non-Russian timezone.

Edited by mincer
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It's because there's like 15 different voice coms two different softwares, it's a mess and why we need in game voip. Also the younger crowd seems to use discord more, older players won't touch it they think its reading their emails.

Edited by 392FS_Jred
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You know, I think a lot of people just don't want to be on comms in some giant communal meeting place where every stranger who happens to be playing the game is inclined to come in to your channel without being invited.   I think more than a few of us have been on TS where you have the stranger coming in who is the chatterbox, or the town drunk, or the let me tell you my life story type, the guy who makes political quips, or the can you guys answer a quick question type (oblivious that you have been yelling back and forth with your wingman for the last several minutes because you are in a massive furball), and this can all be very awkward and annoying.   I think at the very least, if you are going to get on comms with a group of people, and you don't know them, it is always good manners to say something like "Hi, do you mind if I fly with you guys", and then just make a point of toning it down a lot until you establish some relationships.   I think places like BoS Official would be a lot more populated if people were more apt to show these common courtesies.  A lot of people just go somewhere else so they can be with their squad or their buddies and avoid some of the more crowded areas.  I think it's quite an overgeneralization though to conclude that very few English speaking players get on comms. 

 

Some people keep asking for some in-game VOIP.  I'm not sure why people think if something like the "Official BoS Teamspeak Channel" has so few people on it, why simply moving the capability in-game would be so much better, because it doesn't seem to address the reasons why people might be splitting out onto their own preferred Teamspeak servers in the first place.  I guess it depends what other capabilities come along with it, such as simulated radio tuning, facilities for command and control integrated with the game, who can adminster a particular subsection like for private squad comms, or whatever.

Edited by SeaSerpent
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1 hour ago, SeaSerpent said:

You know, I think a lot of people just don't want to be on comms in some giant communal meeting place where every stranger who happens to be playing the game is inclined to come in to your channel without being invited.   I think more than a few of us have been on TS where you have the stranger coming in who is the chatterbox, or the town drunk, or the let me tell you my life story type, the guy who makes political quips, or the can you guys answer a quick question type (oblivious that you have been yelling back and forth with your wingman for the last several minutes because you are in a massive furball), and this can all be very awkward and annoying.   I think at the very least, if you are going to get on comms with a group of people, and you don't know them, it is always good manners to say something like "Hi, do you mind if I fly with you guys", and then just make a point of toning it down a lot until you establish some relationships.   I think places like BoS Official would be a lot more populated if people were more apt to show these common courtesies.  A lot of people just go somewhere else so they can be with their squad or their buddies and avoid some of the more crowded areas.  I think it's quite an overgeneralization though to conclude that very few English speaking players get on comms. 

 

Some people keep asking for some in-game VOIP.  I'm not sure why people think if something like the "Official BoS Teamspeak Channel" has so few people on it, why simply moving the capability in-game would be so much better, because it doesn't seem to address the reasons why people might be splitting out onto their own preferred Teamspeak servers in the first place.  I guess it depends what other capabilities come along with it, such as simulated radio tuning, facilities for command and control integrated with the game, who can adminster a particular subsection like for private squad comms, or whatever.

This is extremely short sighted, many people don't want to download TS or discord to be able to communicate. People don't use the Official ts channel because its a pita to setup. TS is old crap with terrible voice quality. Most younger people don't even have the software. Discord is 20x better. The amount of people willing to chat when it consists of using a button to push so you can talk compared with downloading software, finding the IP address to the server, and setting up all that crap would be pretty large I'd be willing to bet. I don't even know where the "official ts server" info is even at. I couldn't even tell you. I found it at one point but who knows where it is. It's inconvenient. It doesn't need to simulate anything like the real comms just give us the ability to talk to eachother. Teamwork would be far more common I can guarantee it.

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1 hour ago, 392FS_Jred said:

This is extremely short sighted, many people don't want to download TS or discord to be able to communicate. People don't use the Official ts channel because its a pita to setup. TS is old crap with terrible voice quality. Most younger people don't even have the software. Discord is 20x better. The amount of people willing to chat when it consists of using a button to push so you can talk compared with downloading software, finding the IP address to the server, and setting up all that crap would be pretty large I'd be willing to bet. I don't even know where the "official ts server" info is even at. I couldn't even tell you. I found it at one point but who knows where it is. It's inconvenient. It doesn't need to simulate anything like the real comms just give us the ability to talk to eachother. Teamwork would be far more common I can guarantee it.

 

I honestly have very little sympathy for the "it's too inconvenient" argument.  It literally takes no more than a few minutes to find Teamspeak, download it, install it, get a feel for it's menus, get the BoS Official TS address and set it up.  Now we spend thousands of dollars on computer hardware and flight sim peripherals.  That takes time to set up or build too.  We download things, that might take an hour.  We have to read manuals, we google P-47 turbocharger on the internet to learn more about it, we spend hundreds or thousands of hours playing the game and learning it, some of it being very frustrating.  Someone doesn't  know where the "official ts server" is?  Perhaps I can help:  Google "BoS official Teamspeak".

 

So considering how much time and resource it takes to set up everything else to be a flight simmer, my opinion of someone who thinks TS is too much of a PITA to set up because it might take 5 or 10 minutes to get going with the very first time, is that they probably aren't all that interested in being on Comms in the first place. 

 

I don't necessarily have a problem with developers making something more straightforward if it's absolutely necessary and they have nothing else to do with their time and resources, but you know, I've come to actually sort of appreciate the fact that not everything in this sim-world is instant gratification, because I really think it weeds out those who really want to be there, from the people who can't be bothered with even trivial aspects of it;  I think the latter are just going to be frustrated, and will probably spend most of their time complaining, because it likely isn't a good fit for them anyway.

 

 

Edited by SeaSerpent
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Too bad he doesn't let anyone else join up. It's a private discord only for his friends he says.

58 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

I honestly have very little sympathy for the "it's too inconvenient" argument.  It literally takes no more than a few minutes to find Teamspeak, download it, install it, get a feel for it's menus, get the BoS Official TS address and set it up.  Now we spend thousands of dollars on computer hardware and flight sim peripherals.  That takes time to set up or build too.  We download things, that might take an hour.  We have to read manuals, we google P-47 turbocharger on the internet to learn more about it, we spend hundreds or thousands of hours playing the game and learning it, some of it being very frustrating.  Someone doesn't  know where the "official ts server" is?  Perhaps I can help:  Google "BoS official Teamspeak".

 

So considering how much time and resource it takes to set up everything else to be a flight simmer, my opinion of someone who thinks TS is too much of a PITA to set up because it might take 5 or 10 minutes to get going with the very first time, is that they probably aren't all that interested in being on Comms in the first place. 

 

I don't necessarily have a problem with developers making something more straightforward if it's absolutely necessary and they have nothing else to do with their time and resources, but you know, I've come to actually sort of appreciate the fact that not everything in this sim-world is instant gratification, because I really think it weeds out those who really want to be there, from the people who can't be bothered with even trivial aspects of it;  I think the latter are just going to be frustrated, and will probably spend most of their time complaining, because it likely isn't a good fit for them anyway.

 

 

Also hate to break it to you but this game isn't that complicated, you press one button, the plane starts, you open the rads and figure out a few engine settings. If you've played War Thunder, then you can play Il2, this isn't DCS. Nobodies busting out the start up manual to get one of these planes in the air. You need a 30 dollar joystick and a monitor to start playing. This game needs fresh faces to keep getting developed. We keep making it some "exclusive" club then the money is going to dry up and the games going to stop getting new content.

 

Putting voice comms in the game is a huge plus. Just like I said that dudes discord was invite only and he wouldnt let anyone just hop on. So when somebody gets on the official TS and NOBODIES on it, then what? Scour the forums? Join a squadron with a bunch of bs rules? Let's quit with the idea that making things more cumbersome and complicated somehow creates a better community, most people think it's the opposite and breeds toxic elitism.

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6 minutes ago, 392FS_Jred said:

Too bad he doesn't let anyone else join up. It's a private discord only for his friends he says.

1 hour ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

What's wrong with having a Discord with your friends on it? 🤷‍♂️

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Just now, Talon_ said:

 

What's wrong with having a Discord with your friends on it? 🤷‍♂️

I never said anything was wrong with it, it's just not some public channel that can be used to show that we don't need voip in game. Gloating about how private it is and how nobodies allowed on it isn't really that cool either.

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1 minute ago, 392FS_Jred said:

Gloating about how private it is and how nobodies allowed on it

 

Don't recall any of this, only gloating about getting 25 Peshkas up at once, nothing to do with privacy or exclusivity :P

 

The Discord was just 2 people once and there's nothing to stop you doing the same...

 

Pretty sure most squadrons are invite-only, mine's just a bit too casual to be called a squadron

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I say go where the players are. That used to be TeamSpeak but now it’s 100% Discord. I have literally no sympathy if people are trying “official” servers using substandard tools like TS. Discord is loads better, state of the art chat as well as voice and even screen sharing for things like mission debrief.

 

If there’s an official Discord please let me know and I’ll join it. Until then I’m in Sheriff’s for community and Talon’s for squadron action.

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5 minutes ago, 392FS_Jred said:

I never said anything was wrong with it, it's just not some public channel that can be used to show that we don't need voip in game. Gloating about how private it is and how nobodies allowed on it isn't really that cool either.

You could always ask to join its not that difficult 🙄 

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22 minutes ago, 392FS_Jred said:

Too bad he doesn't let anyone else join up. It's a private discord only for his friends he says.

Also hate to break it to you but this game isn't that complicated, you press one button, the plane starts, you open the rads and figure out a few engine settings. If you've played War Thunder, then you can play Il2, this isn't DCS. Nobodies busting out the start up manual to get one of these planes in the air. You need a 30 dollar joystick and a monitor to start playing. This game needs fresh faces to keep getting developed. We keep making it some "exclusive" club then the money is going to dry up and the games going to stop getting new content.

 

Putting voice comms in the game is a huge plus. Just like I said that dudes discord was invite only and he wouldnt let anyone just hop on. So when somebody gets on the official TS and NOBODIES on it, then what? Scour the forums? Join a squadron with a bunch of bs rules? Let's quit with the idea that making things more cumbersome and complicated somehow creates a better community, most people think it's the opposite and breeds toxic elitism.

 

Thank goodness then for the utter complexity and inconvience of Teamspeak and Discord.

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1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

Here's my Discord totally failing to coordinate tonight on TAW :rofl:

 

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It's a multifaceted problem. Everything from too many teamspeak/discord channels to join, to no central voice administration channel/server, to not having a feature rich VOIP system for Discord or in the game, to the lazy, to people wanting to be *exclusive* and not invite the community to their administrated voice channel, and many other issues. 

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1 hour ago, 392FS_Jred said:

How ANYONE is arguing against in game voip is mind boggling. Cause what IL2 definitely needs is a smaller user base.

 

Saying that I'm "opposed" to it is too strong a statement.  I just don't think that it is one of the pressing issues of the game.  Maybe as part of the Air Marshall stuff, which I don't have much of an understanding of what it entails, you'll get your in-game VOIP, and that's fine.  If not, then people can just use common third party programs like TS and Discord and I don't see that as such a problem.  Reading the developer diaries and comparing the work that is planned versus all the gazillions of requests and complaints and wish lists that are fielded daily by the community must be a daunting task for the development team,  and I simply see some things as more important than others . As I said before, if certain people aren't playing the game because of the reasons you stated, such as TS being too confusing, or not enough motivation to take the 5 minutes to set it up, then I'm not sure those types would be a boon for the community anyway, even if it did lead to slightly higher numbers.   I truly believe that if you really want to get on comms with a group and do team oriented stuff, there is very little real barrier to doing that.  

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I use teamspeak but the ability to have radio comms in-game would be great and would add to the immersion.

 

Global channel to speak to the rest of your team and a squad channel to speak to your squadmates is basically all you need.

 

Another benefit would be that people would all be on comms by default, there wouldn't be any hassle to go searching around joining TS servers to see who is on.

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2 hours ago, 392FS_Jred said:

How ANYONE is arguing against in game voip is mind boggling. Cause what IL2 definitely needs is a smaller user base.

 

I'll bite. Discord (and others) have *always* been the more popular choice, even when games such as World of Warcraft offered in-game VOIP. Based on that history it's not at all obvious that people would use an in-game option. I'd rather have the developers work on other things than creating a VOIP service.

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19 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

I'll bite. Discord (and others) have *always* been the more popular choice, even when games such as World of Warcraft offered in-game VOIP. Based on that history it's not at all obvious that people would use an in-game option. I'd rather have the developers work on other things than creating a VOIP service.

In game voip like Squad would be ideal imo, everyone used voip in squad an communicates quite heavily.

 

I know if Il2 had voip I'd definitely use it, I don't have time to type out where I am when I'd getting jumped or in a dogfight.

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11 hours ago, mincer said:

Yes, for some reason Russians are more likely to be in TS. There is a group of English speaking pilots on TS as well, though it is smaller. They usually hang out on the "Official BoS" TS. For example, @Mobile_BBQ is often there. I also join it if I am flying a non-Russian timezone.

 

When I play on WoL or KoTA, I join the BOS Official TeamSpeak channel.  I often find 3 to 10 other English-speaking pilots to fly with.

When I play TAW, I join the TAW TeamSpeak with CptSiddy, and whoever else is part of the Cat Herd at that particular time. 

I also don't mind joining other non-English channels as long as someone is willing to translate and the 'extra chatter' of translating doesn't clog up the channel for everyone else.  I wouldn't want anybody to get shot down because they missed/couldn't hear a vital message while I was receiving a translation. 

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4 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

I'll bite. Discord (and others) have *always* been the more popular choice, even when games such as World of Warcraft offered in-game VOIP. Based on that history it's not at all obvious that people would use an in-game option. I'd rather have the developers work on other things than creating a VOIP service.

That's literally anecdotal evidence based on a completely different game. 

4 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

Saying that I'm "opposed" to it is too strong a statement.  I just don't think that it is one of the pressing issues of the game.  Maybe as part of the Air Marshall stuff, which I don't have much of an understanding of what it entails, you'll get your in-game VOIP, and that's fine.  If not, then people can just use common third party programs like TS and Discord and I don't see that as such a problem.  Reading the developer diaries and comparing the work that is planned versus all the gazillions of requests and complaints and wish lists that are fielded daily by the community must be a daunting task for the development team,  and I simply see some things as more important than others . As I said before, if certain people aren't playing the game because of the reasons you stated, such as TS being too confusing, or not enough motivation to take the 5 minutes to set it up, then I'm not sure those types would be a boon for the community anyway, even if it did lead to slightly higher numbers.   I truly believe that if you really want to get on comms with a group and do team oriented stuff, there is very little real barrier to doing that.  

LOL nobodies saying people aren't playing because of it but teamwork suffers because of it. It's also a draw for new players. 

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In all the games I played where there was voip, I disconnected it after few hours maximum.

 

Always the same type of players on voip :

- the "bad microphone quality" guy

- the "How was your day? I ate an hamburger with french fries for lunch. And I love my cat. Did I told you that *insert random plane here* is not correctly modeled in game? Let me explain you why..." guy

- the "I play with my child/wife/stepmother/dog screaming behind me for half an hour and I do nothing against it" guy

- the "I have no headset, so my game sound is at maximum volume on speakers, can you hear my beautiful engine roaring?" guy

- the "I don't care about English, I will speak in *insert random language here* " guy

- the "I play with music and I want to share it with everybody *boom boom boom boom boom*" guy

- etc...

 

 

I don't want to spend my time muting people while dogfighting.

If any day Il-2 develops voip, for me it will be shut off few minutes after the update.

Long live TS/Discord/whatever software with separated channels and permissions.

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17 minutes ago, -IRRE-Centx said:

In all the games I played where there was voip, I disconnected it after few hours maximum.

 

Always the same type of players on voip :

- the "bad microphone quality" guy

- the "How was your day? I ate an hamburger with french fries for lunch. And I love my cat. Did I told you that *insert random plane here* is not correctly modeled in game? Let me explain you why..." guy

- the "I play with my child/wife/stepmother/dog screaming behind me for half an hour and I do nothing against it" guy

- the "I have no headset, so my game sound is at maximum volume on speakers, can you hear my beautiful engine roaring?" guy

- the "I don't care about English, I will speak in *insert random language here* " guy

- the "I play with music and I want to share it with everybody *boom boom boom boom boom*" guy

- etc...

 

 

I don't want to spend my time muting people while dogfighting.

If any day Il-2 develops voip, for me it will be shut off few minutes after the update.

Long live TS/Discord/whatever software with separated channels and permissions.

 

This is why my discord is not public. It's not about elitism, it's about the fact we have a small community atmosphere where we trust each other, plan operations together, cover each other etc. 

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, -IRRE-Centx said:

In all the games I played where there was voip, I disconnected it after few hours maximum.

 

Always the same type of players on voip :

- the "bad microphone quality" guy

- the "How was your day? I ate an hamburger with french fries for lunch. And I love my cat. Did I told you that *insert random plane here* is not correctly modeled in game? Let me explain you why..." guy

- the "I play with my child/wife/stepmother/dog screaming behind me for half an hour and I do nothing against it" guy

- the "I have no headset, so my game sound is at maximum volume on speakers, can you hear my beautiful engine roaring?" guy

- the "I don't care about English, I will speak in *insert random language here* " guy

- the "I play with music and I want to share it with everybody *boom boom boom boom boom*" guy

- etc...

 

 

I don't want to spend my time muting people while dogfighting.

If any day Il-2 develops voip, for me it will be shut off few minutes after the update.

Long live TS/Discord/whatever software with separated channels and permissions.

 You are right , who would not hate behavior like that. Guys like me who's squad are not active , need to join others which do know how to behave and know how to operate and make good decisions plus flight in numbers - this especially in events like TAW or KOTA.

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less things game needs to do is better for MP, if they add viop im worried only about it straining already strained online expiriance, im even afraid of marshall coming in as of now and this last weekend trying to play online after update.

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5 hours ago, -IRRE-Centx said:

In all the games I played where there was voip, I disconnected it after few hours maximum.

 

Always the same type of players on voip :

- the "bad microphone quality" guy

- the "How was your day? I ate an hamburger with french fries for lunch. And I love my cat. Did I told you that *insert random plane here* is not correctly modeled in game? Let me explain you why..." guy

- the "I play with my child/wife/stepmother/dog screaming behind me for half an hour and I do nothing against it" guy

- the "I have no headset, so my game sound is at maximum volume on speakers, can you hear my beautiful engine roaring?" guy

- the "I don't care about English, I will speak in *insert random language here* " guy

- the "I play with music and I want to share it with everybody *boom boom boom boom boom*" guy

- etc...

 

 

I don't want to spend my time muting people while dogfighting.

If any day Il-2 develops voip, for me it will be shut off few minutes after the update.

Long live TS/Discord/whatever software with separated channels and permissions.


Honestly, I have never ever had any experience like that in IL-2, either BoS or 1946. I had it on other games, though.

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7 hours ago, 392FS_Jred said:

Lol the flight Sim community is truly peculiar. Turn it off if it bothers you so much. I rather be able to coordinate with my teammates without the time sink that comes with all the bs associated with 3rd party squads /software. 

 

To elaborate on what CountZero is saying, anyone who reads the rest of the forum, and plays MP, realizes that people's performance in multiplayer is always an ongoing 'issue'.  I put the word in quotes because I don't have a great enough understanding of all the factors contributing to one's relative online performance.  You notice that sometimes in dogfights, things can get the stutters, but then after some updates, things are buttery smooth.   And then they aren't again.  And then they will.   People are always complaining about getting booted.  It appears that we are going through one such period now, after the last update, where some people are having a really bad multiplayer experience.

 

So, hey, let's add more networked overhead to this sim, by replicating some capability that is already largely provided by third party programs...let's open up a whole new level of performance demands on that strained system!  You see the problem with that?  Yes, people in flight sim can be peculiar (and you are absolutely no exception, btw), but a lot of people are just looking at this from a practical standpoint, and there is nothing peculiar about that at all.

 

People all have their pet wishes.  Get in line with everyone else.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

To elaborate on what CountZero is saying, anyone who reads the rest of the forum, and plays MP, realizes that people's performance in multiplayer is always an ongoing 'issue'.  I put the word in quotes because I don't have a great enough understanding of all the factors contributing to one's relative online performance.  You notice that sometimes in dogfights, things can get the stutters, but then after some updates, things are buttery smooth.   And then they aren't again.  And then they will.   People are always complaining about getting booted.  It appears that we are going through one such period now, after the last update, where some people are having a really bad multiplayer experience.

 

So, hey, let's add more networked overhead to this sim, by replicating some capability that is already largely provided by third party programs...let's open up a whole new level of performance demands on that strained system!  You see the problem with that?  Yes, people in flight sim can be peculiar (and you are absolutely no exception, btw), but a lot of people are just looking at this from a practical standpoint, and there is nothing peculiar about that at all.

 

People all have their pet wishes.  Get in line with everyone else.

 

 

LOL glad somebody else could come up with an argument for you since all you could think of was why waste the time to make it.

 

VOIP is not a strain since many other games are capable of doing it, ARMA, SQUAD, all games that have the same amount of players on a server have 0 issues with it. Matter of fact if squad didn't have VOIP the game wouldn't exist. You say it yourself you have no idea what you are talking about. So how you can use that argument with any confidence is beyond me. TAW is running right now with ZERO issues online with lag or high player counts, its the two other servers wings of liberty and KOTA that are having issues, one is run by a bunch of newbies, and the other has always been a terrible server with lag issues, that's not the games fault. Apparently the pros can get it working just fine. You have no factual foundation to build that argument on.

 

Next.

 

😆

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11 hours ago, 392FS_Jred said:

That's literally anecdotal evidence based on a completely different game. 

 

And your point is?

 

Your opinion is that VOIP would be a big draw and that it's totally worth doing. My opinion is that it's not. I presented some reasoning and data points for my opinion. Others have added their opinion. I'm not trying to convince you, just stating how I see it.

 

I don't really understand why you have to get 200% combative in every frigging thread in which you post. Sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I don't, but we don't need to get into virtual fisticuffs over it.

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Honestly, JRed, maybe you need to take make an honest assessment of what this game means to you, and instead of spending most of your time complaining about things, it might be a win/win if you simply found something else that better suited your needs.

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1 hour ago, 392FS_Jred said:

LOL glad somebody else could come up with an argument for you since all you could think of was why waste the time to make it.

 

VOIP is not a strain since many other games are capable of doing it, ARMA, SQUAD, all games that have the same amount of players on a server have 0 issues with it. Matter of fact if squad didn't have VOIP the game wouldn't exist. You say it yourself you have no idea what you are talking about. So how you can use that argument with any confidence is beyond me. TAW is running right now with ZERO issues online with lag or high player counts, its the two other servers wings of liberty and KOTA that are having issues, one is run by a bunch of newbies, and the other has always been a terrible server with lag issues, that's not the games fault. Apparently the pros can get it working just fine. You have no factual foundation to build that argument on.

 

Next.

 

😆

TAW is not using moving vehicles or tanks or ships, they are just static, and there is good reason they dont use moving ones, performance.

WoL have more then few moving objectives ( tanks, trains ships...) on missions and their missions are more demanding for user. KOTA dont know if they use moving or static columns.

 

i can go your same logic, i see 100s ppl playing this game with no problem using TS3 and discort, managing to coordinate in game and play together.

 

im always on wol ts3 with my tm8 when i play, if i wont to play with ther english speaking guys i know where to fined them, i just dont wont to be bathered playing with ppl i dont know, my time is limited i wont to spend it with ppl i know play game as i do.

 

if VOIP is in this game i would disable it as i do in other games. I dont care if they add it or not, but thats thing this game dont need to improve MP expiriance.

Edited by 77.CountZero
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