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dog1

the Moscow map and how to use it

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hello

i just bought Battle off Moscow only to find out that you cannot fly over the city . I then inspected the whole map and i find only 4 cities .Only one city  Vjazma i found  to have been involved in the battles outside the capital. So my question is how do you use this map ?  Smolensk and Minsk are not there i dont see the Dnieper river so what epic air battles took place on this map and where exactly ? further does anyone have a list of the bases the Germans used between September 1941 and the winter of 42 on this map . The German retreated quite a distance approx 300 km's during the winter so where was the front line  ?  

Edited by dog1

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Yep, they decided that they did not have the resources to represent the city fully and because the city isn't actually involved directly in the fighting at any point (aside from a few bombing raids) that it would be better if it was just off the edge of the map.

 

To understand the air battles, you need to understand the ground war as both Luftwaffe and VVS were primarily operating in support of the ground. The few raids on Moscow were not overly effective and most of the German bomber force was engaged tactically bombing supply dumps, artillery positions, concentrations of enemy forces, etc. The Soviet bomber force, such as it was, was also engaged tactically and one of the key players in that was the Pe-2 - an ideal aircraft to fly in quickly and bomb a target and then get out again either via level bombing or dive.

 

The fighting in front of Moscow was intense. German and Russian units were front based and some of them came under artillery bombardment at various points. It's an extremely active front with small tactical missions being flown back and forth across the shifting lines.


Check out what was happening here in the Vyazma-Bryansk double encirclement in September and October of 1941:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow#/media/File:Karte_-_Kesselschlachte_bei_Vjazma_und_Brjansk_1941.png

 

 

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Schamrock

 Hello

 I dont understand that Velyaki and novosokolniki map ? why are they in the sim ? It would have made more sense to include Kursk , Karkov and the Dnyper river in one extra map instead . so basically you use the open space in the thrust to Moscow up to september 1941 , stalemate in 1942 and retreat winter 1943 .   

Edited by dog1

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40 minutes ago, dog1 said:

Schamrock

 Hello

 I dont understand that Velyaki and novosokolniki map ? why are they in the sim ? It would have made more sense to include Kursk , Karkov and the Dnyper river in one extra map instead . so basically you use the open space in the thrust to Moscow up to september 1941 , stalemate in 1942 and retreat winter 1943 .   

I think these were free maps made by some people like a mod. Not 100% sure tho. 2 of them are fictional, only vielkie luki are real as far as I know.

 

Unfortunately no one made any official career campaign for it, there is just some fan made scripted campaigns. Wish this map was expanded and added to new expansion or something.

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In Progress

I feel the same way , they should develop an add on map or maps to include i dont know if its west looking from Moscow the area Kursk Smolensk Karkov and the river Dniper . This will unite the maps to Kuban . Right now we can only fight skirmishes from Vjazma  to the outskirts of Moscow late 41 for a year approx  . 

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9 hours ago, InProgress said:

I think these were free maps made by some people like a mod. Not 100% sure tho. 2 of them are fictional, only vielkie luki are real as far as I know.

 

Unfortunately no one made any official career campaign for it, there is just some fan made scripted campaigns. Wish this map was expanded and added to new expansion or something.

 

Yes, both Novosokolniki and Velikie Luki are free maps that are included with the game.

 

xvii-Dietrich created a map showing where the IL-2 maps (and one DCS map) are located.

 

Edited by JimTM

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7 hours ago, dog1 said:

Karkov

This one is my dream expansion (after leningrad), i would love to see the longest career ever with 4 battles of Karkov 1941-1943.

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19 hours ago, dog1 said:

Schamrock

 Hello

 I dont understand that Velyaki and novosokolniki map ? why are they in the sim ? It would have made more sense to include Kursk , Karkov and the Dnyper river in one extra map instead . so basically you use the open space in the thrust to Moscow up to september 1941 , stalemate in 1942 and retreat winter 1943 .   

 

The Velikiye Luki map was done by a third party that was attempting to get a grasp on how to build more IL-2 maps. The one person responsible I think ended up helping the IL-2 team on all of their map projects after that. It also worked out well because at the time there was only the Stalingrad winter map and so the map worked out well having the same basic aesthetic and building sets. Also its thematically appropriate as the battle was referred to as the "little Stalingrad of the north."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Velikiye_Luki

 

The other map was the original development map that we flew on before the Stalingrad map was finished. It's small, its simple, and ideal for testing. They also give it out for free to people who own early access products that aren't finished yet (ala Bodenplatte or Flying Circus).

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so lets get hold of this guy and give him our list  to work on , i dont mind paying for a combo bunch off  historically correct maps  of  significance during the conflict . 

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10 minutes ago, dog1 said:

so lets get hold of this guy and give him our list  to work on , i dont mind paying for a combo bunch off  historically correct maps  of  significance during the conflict . 

This guy, called Zeus, Its already part of the dev team. He is in charge of the map team so most probably already have a list to work on.

 

Moscow map offer lots of possibilities to build missions/campaigns either historical ones or fictional.

 

Haash

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13 hours ago, dog1 said:

so lets get hold of this guy and give him our list  to work on , i dont mind paying for a combo bunch off  historically correct maps  of  significance during the conflict . 

 

As Haashashin already pointed out, he's now busy doing the official maps.

 

1CGS has been very smart with the maps they've laid out and the battle spaces they represent. Moscow, Stalingrad, Kuban have all been chosen well and they have picked boundaries to their maps that make a lot of sense for the actual battles fought there. Moscow's a great map I highly recommend checking it out in detail and maybe playing the Ten Days in Autumn scripted campaign or the Career mode for Battle of Moscow.

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I must admit one of the reasons I bought the Moscow campaign, was so that I could fly round  Moscow. Having been so impressed with the Stalingrad  area I thought they might do the same. I understand the reasoning behind it and it would probably be a waste of resources, but it would have been very interesting. 

Still a brilliant sim regardless

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On 11/25/2018 at 9:16 AM, SYN_Haashashin said:

This guy, called Zeus, Its already part of the dev team. He is in charge of the map team so most probably already have a list to work on.

 

Moscow map offer lots of possibilities to build missions/campaigns either historical ones or fictional.

 

Haash

Does that mean bye bye to the Odessa map?

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On the Moscow Map, German forces were physically on the map from october 1941 to march 1943 and both Rhzev and Vyazma were occupied until the end. So that already covers a lot of ground: operation Typhoon, Russian winter counterattack, Operation mars (late 1942). Plus German forces were not that far to the west in 43-44 and the terrain for operation Bagration is not that different. So with the current German-Russian plane set, you can stretch ops up to mid-44.

 

The La5-fn was the top Russian fighter until late 44. The La-7 only replaced it in front line squadrons in nov.-dec. 44.

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