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II./JG77_motoadve

The gamer vs the sim/history buff P47

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Sure but one incident does not make a very good sample size. There is luck and probably skill involved. That kind of damage and the shock of the impact plus other factors may make that very same aircraft an operational loss, in the hands of a different pilot, to be discovered in the nearby woods forty years later. Or even the same pilot and a difference of a couple of degrees on the impact angle.

 

So, far, as a "pilot" in this game I have nursed back aircraft in horrendous shape on numerous occasions and also been one-shotted about 1% of those times I am hit. I think this game models the randomness of damage pretty well. I fly Luftie almost exclusively and do not have the complaints of many about pilot kills/headshot deaths, weak 109 tails or being de-winged. Maybe it's skill, maybe it's luck, maybe it's some combination of those.

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf

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2 hours ago, BR_Calinho said:
During a attack, Bazilian pilot Raymundo da Costa Canário accidentally collided with the chimney of a factory, 
knocking it down. In the collision his airplane lost part of the right wing (1,28 meter), which did not prevent him from returning to the base
 
 
 
P47-BRAZIL-DAM.jpg
 
 

 

There are two hinges visible:

T3Ukkzc.jpg

 

and since the ammunition compartment isn't visible the cut must have occured at the fourth rip from the tip marked in red here:

Ldmbpyb.jpg

 

Damage such as this wouldn't really hurt the load bearing ability of the wing as it's akin to a cut, and therefore it is not comparable to the damage we see in the British trials.

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I really like how the P-47's flight characteristics are modeled, but not its ability to withstand punishment. After looking for the reasons of this, I found this post. Well, I'm not an aeronautics expert, but I did some SP testing with the Macchi C.202 against the P-47 IA. The machine guns of Macchi were more than enough to do pretty much damage, including what appears in the video below (the wing ripped off)...

 

 

I flew the P-40 many times in this game, and it seems to me much tougher than the P-47. And this is not consistent with what I've read about the pilots who flew this plane!

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Hi gents,

 

from a blue pilot point of view, i would say the Yak and the P-40 are way harder to bring down than the P-47 in MP.

Dosent matters if 20mm or 30mm 2 second burst and its done. When i hit the Yak or a P-40 at the same spot and angle, most of the time  they survive

and can even still fight, but P-47 goes down. Should be the other way around.

 

regards

 

Little_D

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Posted (edited)

This Bf 110 7.92mm MG fire 75mm ammo. :)

Edited by Sokol1

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Posted (edited)

P47 is a joke in the sim. And btw when I see one on my gunsight I know its done with a short burst. Yak is much more durable. Like they switched damage models.

Edited by =VARP=Tvrdi
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Posted (edited)
On 11/23/2018 at 12:45 PM, II./JG77_motoadve said:

If you go read about the P 47  you will find amazing stories of how durable it was.

One example in the book Thunderbolt (great book BTW) Robert Johnson shot to pieces by a 190, and could not be brought down, the 190 pilot will go next to him, look at it , shake his head , go behind ,shoot again, and again.

 

Many other stories of pilots making it back with lots of damage, it gave the reputation to the P47.

 

My personal favorite story is in Zemke's book, describing a P47 returning from a ground attack mission with tree branches embedded in the wing leading edge and telephone wire wrapped around the prop hub. 

 

 

Edited by Stoopy
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On 11/23/2018 at 6:27 PM, II./JG77_motoadve said:

P 47 feeling of flight feels real good to me.

Have a friend who owned a P47 D, he might get a more accurate input, will have him try the sim in VR, I bet he will be blown away :)

Please do this! As a recorded "initial reactions as it happens" interview, it would probably get a decent amount of YT traffic too.

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There should be a couple of P47s in this one, along with Russian aircraft..

edit: found the right one!

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sharpe43 said:

 

There should be a couple of P47s in this one, along with Russian aircraft..

edit: found the right one!

 

 

 

Notice how the P-47 doesn't get blown apart and the wings don't come off. Are these guncams of confirmed kills? I'm curious to know if that P-47 survived or not.

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6 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Notice how the P-47 doesn't get blown apart and the wings don't come off. Are these guncams of confirmed kills? I'm curious to know if that P-47 survived or not.

Dont be surprised if someone comes and say we PC gamers are better shooters than real WWII pilots because we have more hrs of practice so this is why we can blow the wings off, and they didnt.

 

Looks like a fire started on the wing and then quit, self sealing tanks? Would be nice to have that.

 

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I noticed that as well. I didn't think it was a fire as much as a fuel leak.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Dont be surprised if someone comes and say we PC gamers are better shooters than real WWII pilots because we have more hrs of practice so this is why we can blow the wings off, and they didnt.

 

Looks like a fire started on the wing and then quit, self sealing tanks? Would be nice to have that.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Sharpe43 said:

I noticed that as well. I didn't think it was a fire as much as a fuel leak.

 

 

 

Maybe but I'm not sure. P-47s don't have wing tanks so unless the round punctured the fuselage tank It may have just been a result of the cannon hitting the aircraft.

 

I agree though, self sealing fuel tanks are sorely needed, I've been hit by minor gunfire yet my tanks didn't seal and I lost all my fuel.

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The p-47 really is extremely fragile in this game when literally every piece of footage, memoir, and literature says otherwise. One round from a small caliber machine gun is enough to knock the engine out. Two and your wing falls off. 

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55 minutes ago, Rekt said:

 

From the devoper diaries or whatever a couple of years ago I remember how durability (of wings, engines etc) was something that was specifically set for each aircraft based on number of wing spars, type of engine and that kind of thing. So it would seem that somebody must have chosen values for the P-47 that are lower than or at best on par with those for other, shall we say daintier, aircraft in the sim. 

 

Apart from nostalgia there'll really be little reason at all to fly the P-47 in this sim once the P-51 arrives. If the R-2800 is going to seize immediately upon getting hit by a few rifle-caliber machine gun rounds, you might as well just fly the faster, smaller target.

With the liquid cooled engine..

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1 hour ago, Rekt said:

 

From the devoper diaries or whatever a couple of years ago I remember how durability (of wings, engines etc) was something that was specifically set for each aircraft based on number of wing spars, type of engine and that kind of thing. So it would seem that somebody must have chosen values for the P-47 that are lower than or at best on par with those for other, shall we say daintier, aircraft in the sim. 

 

Apart from nostalgia there'll really be little reason at all to fly the P-47 in this sim once the P-51 arrives. If the R-2800 is going to seize immediately upon getting hit by a few rifle-caliber machine gun rounds, you might as well just fly the faster, smaller target.

They need to fix it. End of story. The wings, the flaps, the engine all need worked on.

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P 47 has been out for a while  now and its surprising it has not been fixed, and this is a point where most of the community agrees, its a bit too fragile.

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The airframe of the p47 is well armored enough, just all radial engines(bmw801, m82, ect) in game are terrible at receiving damage.  Another thing that may just be me are that planes that were historically stronk (p47, lagg3, pe2, ect) seem to soak up cannons but get lit on fire or their control surfaces shredded with mg's and vice versa.  This is consistent for me between aaa shooting the aircraft or enemy planes.

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In fact, I can only agree with that. In general the engine damages in Il-2 are relatively hard. I think I was only able to bring 2 birds home with engine damage over a longer period of time and that was a P-40 and a Bf-109.
The 190, as well as the P-47 have little to laugh about engine damage and I don't feel much difference to water cooled engines.
Likewise the P-47 can be disassembled more easily. I don't know if it's the arming of the later 109 versions. But at least it could be possible that it will be revised until the full release.
After all, Bodenplatte is still Early Access and we should evaluate it accordingly. The problems with the overheating of the Fw 190 A8 were finally fixed after some time.  We will see what happens.  It could finally be that with the reworking of the engines (regarding the performance times) also the bullet resistance will be tackled again. Who knows

 

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Notice how the P-47 doesn't get blown apart and the wings don't come off. Are these guncams of confirmed kills? I'm curious to know if that P-47 survived or not.

 

The A7 is firing 20mm, wings do not come off in game easily with these either. You may mistake these for 30mm 

OTOH compared to let’s say a Yak the or a lagg, the P47 is fragile

Edited by =EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Notice how the P-47 doesn't get blown apart and the wings don't come off. Are these guncams of confirmed kills? I'm curious to know if that P-47 survived or not.

 

Neither the LaGG-5 that take more than the usual recipe "three cannon shells blow up an fighter".

 

Too bad that Luftwaffe gun cam in YT looks record with 1980's VHS camera from TV screen. Where are the 16mm?

Edited by Sokol1

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Posted (edited)

I consider myself in the middle. I want everything to be like it was IRL But I also want balance between the two factions so that either side is equally matched. I like to fly mostly full realism except I like pressing the map button in flight to find out where im at but when I do this I cant see where im flying which makes me vunerable I think this is a fair tradeoff for being lazy and wanting a gps map. Other than that I like it as real as possible.

Edited by Gamington
My aweful spelling.
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54 minutes ago, Gamington said:

I consider myself in the middle. I want everything to be like it was IRL But I also want balance between the two factions so that either side is equally matched. I like to fly mostly full realism except I like pressing the map button in flight to find out where im at but when I do this I cant see where im flying which makes me vunerable I think this is a fair tradeoff for being lazy and wanting a gps map. Other than that I like it as real as possible.

 

Print the map and put clear plastic over it. Mark your route and then mark where you are as you fly.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

 

Print the map and put clear plastic over it. Mark your route and then mark where you are as you fly.

Not enough room on the desk and once I learn the maps doing ir this way I dont use it as much kuban I know my way around pretty well around the coasts. Other than gps map which is I use only to navigate to combat zones being called out in mp. I dont use anything else easy. Im also still novice pilot only a few years simming.

Edited by Gamington

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