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Luorps

P-47 Pointers/Ground Attack

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In regard to getting the most out of the "Jug", I would truly enjoy some insight on how I can consistently lay my bombs/rockets down on a target. I know that practice makes perfect but any help would be very much appreciated. 

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I usually go for a 30 degree dive and as soon as the target disappears beneath the nose I let loose with the bombs. It's not a 100% effective method but I can get pretty darn close doing it.

 

Rockets I'm still trying to get a sense of on the P-47 though it looks like the marks on the gun sight should help with that if I can find out what they do.

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adding a question to the question, for ground attack would you take the gyro sight, or the static one? For bombing I usually just drop by feeling, and that works, but cant really explain it, I just try to calculate the impact point from speed and alt. The rockets are a different story that I am very much just learning to employ efficiently.

Edited by E4GLEyE

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4 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

I usually go for a 30 degree dive and as soon as the target disappears beneath the nose I let loose with the bombs. It's not a 100% effective method but I can get pretty darn close doing it.

 

This is the best way to drop bombs, absolutely.

 

For rockets, more finesse is required.  Generally the trajectory of your rocket is very much like lobbing a rugby ball on a longer pass, or throwing a ball underhanded.  You learn to predict the arc of your rocket relative to your target and either fire from longer range and hit at the bottom of that arc or from very short range and hit before the apex.

 

Or you can use them as an AOE rocket artillery strike and fire them off in pairs as you strafe an enemy position, if you don't have the luxury of time and (relative)safety.

 

 

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1 hour ago, E4GLEyE said:

adding a question to the question, for ground attack would you take the gyro sight, or the static one? For bombing I usually just drop by feeling, and that works, but cant really explain it, I just try to calculate the impact point from speed and alt. The rockets are a different story that I am very much just learning to employ efficiently.

 

I don't even take gyro sight for air-to-air fights so... you can guess my answer for rockets :biggrin:

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5 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

I usually go for a 30 degree dive and as soon as the target disappears beneath the nose I let loose with the bombs. It's not a 100% effective method but I can get pretty darn close doing it.

 

Rockets I'm still trying to get a sense of on the P-47 though it looks like the marks on the gun sight should help with that if I can find out what they do.

 

This

 

Hitting with rockets is easy with the Jug.

You have this \o/ mark on your sights. Bring your target between the bars. When it fills the room between the bars fire your rockets. 

 

Thats everytime a hit on a standard size target like arty emplacements.

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4 hours ago, Grim said:

 

This

 

Hitting with rockets is easy with the Jug.

You have this \o/ mark on your sights. Bring your target between the bars. When it fills the room between the bars fire your rockets. 

 

Thats everytime a hit on a standard size target like arty emplacements.

 

Brilliant. I will be trying that method next time I'm flying!

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Definitely use the standard sight if mainly doing G/A it has markers for the rockets and whatnot, bombing is like everything else just gotta feel it, wait for the target to disappear and drop those 1k lber's.

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You can practice with bomb-assist and record the orientation of the gunsight with target.

 

It's a neat little feature of the virtual world.

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Loving the Jug but it does seem a little bit fragile; did my default 1 against 2x He111's and the rear guns shredded the plane every time, in most other planes I can shoot both bombers down and only get the odd hit?

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Gyro sight takes in to account the 1G down acceleration of earths gravity on a ballistic object.... learning how to use it for your bombing advantage may give you a good tool for precision bombing.

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11 hours ago, Georgio said:

Loving the Jug but it does seem a little bit fragile; did my default 1 against 2x He111's and the rear guns shredded the plane every time, in most other planes I can shoot both bombers down and only get the odd hit?

 

It's not quite twice the size of most of the other types. You may want to adjust the way that you attack bombers. The spray from the .50cals alone lets you engage them at a greater range which should open up some options for attacks from above, below, and the sides.

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The Jug is an excellent ground attacker.  I dive in fast (min. 30 degrees) with 100% trim, so I can safely pull away with enough acceleration to make another attack.

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8 minutes ago, Eicio said:

We don't have HVARs for the p47 ? 

 

That came on a later model.

 

We have the ability to mount the M8 4.5in 'Bazooka' rockets. It's not as cool as the HVAR but my early tests suggests is pretty effective.

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Just now, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

That came on a later model.

 

We have the ability to mount the M8 4.5in 'Bazooka' rockets. It's not as cool as the HVAR but my early tests suggests is pretty effective.

HVARS were used on earlier block P-47s but they could only carry 4.

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7 hours ago, Eicio said:

Hope we'll have them on the p51.

 

Nope, those came on a later model than we are getting.

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On 11/22/2018 at 8:28 PM, Luorps said:

In regard to getting the most out of the "Jug", I would truly enjoy some insight on how I can consistently lay my bombs/rockets down on a target. I know that practice makes perfect but any help would be very much appreciated. 

 

I confess I've not updated my game yet, and have not practiced dropping bombs with the P-47. But here are some basics. The mantra of RL Jurassic era fighter pilots when dropping dumb bombs was "steep, fast, press." This means to get better bomb scores use a steep rather than shallow dive angle, fly fast rather than slow coming down the chute, and "press" in close to your minimum safe release altitude.

 

As an example, you will generally find it easier to hit your target if you fly a very steep dive angle...but this will require a trade off with increasing your pull out altitude (to avoid smacking into the dirt or becoming a "frag mort" from your bomb's blast). The steeper the dive will also require a higher roll in altitude or apex if you're making a pop up attack. So a 30 degree dive angle is a good place to start, and if you're a little steeper (say up to 45 degrees) you're fine. I'd suggest starting from 2000' above the target elevation to get an idea of how steep you can dive and what your minimum pull out altitude is.

 

Second point, fast doesn't mean diving whilst trying to push your throttle through the firewall. It doesn't mean coming down the chute as fast as you can. Perhaps it's 50-100 mph faster than your cruise airspeed with your power in Combat Mode rather than Emergency Mode. A big reason why has to do with getting the airplane trimmed nose DOWN so the pipper doesn't wander (drift up from the target) as your airspeed builds as you come downhill. I cannot stress this enough, DO NOT TRIM NOSE UP just so you can avoid hitting the ground. Trim nose down enough so you're not pushing the stick forward to keep the pipper near the target. If you were trimmed for level flight at 300 mph (as an example for teaching purposes) prior to rolling in on the target and you roll in from a very high altitude, you will find an increasing need to push forward perhaps FULL FORWARD stick unless you trim NOSE DOWN. If it's not clear why, the airplane is trying to return to the condition to which it was trimmed, in this case 300 mph. And at some speed you may find you cannot hold the pipper near the target even with full forward stick. For that reason I suggest keeping your speed in the dive 50-100 mph above your cruise speed. A very common RL Jurassic era fighter pilot technique was to reduce the power (referred to as "stand the throttle up) in the dive to control the speed. The steeper the dive the greater the possible need to stand the throttle up.

 

At the risk of repeating myself, trim NOSE DOWN for dive bombing. The steeper your planned dive angle the greater amount of NOSE DOWN trim is required. This is one of the reasons a 30 dive is pretty benign in terms NOSE DOWN trim you'll need. Anybody that trims nose up is doing so because they use the "all d*ck and no forehead" method of bombing. They aren't even trying to get good bombs, they're going so damn fast and simply want to avoid hitting the ground. Call these guys "high speed cheerleaders" or in keeping with my trademarked abbreviations, 1GCCHSC (1 G Comfy Chair High Speed Cheerleader).

 

Finally, press is easy to do in game as long as you don't have your bomb's fuze set for instantaneous detonation. In this regard being able to pull out safely is key. Obviously the closer you can get before pickling the bomb, the smaller aiming error you introduce. In RL you have to take into account the factors that insure "safe escape" from your bomb's blast and those of your wingmen. 

 

On 11/23/2018 at 7:48 AM, CUJO_1970 said:

You can practice with bomb-assist and record the orientation of the gunsight with target. 

It's a neat little feature of the virtual world.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This is a GREAT TEACHING tool^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I say it's a great teaching tool because I'm an old guy and need all the help I can get. I try to set fairly consistent parameters to start with and review the video to see where I had the pipper when I released and then look to see where the bomb hit.

 

On 11/23/2018 at 12:22 AM, E4GLEyE said:

For bombing I usually just drop by feeling, and that works, but cant really explain it, I just try to calculate the impact point from speed and alt. 

 

Ahh, the Luke Skywalker method. If the FORCE is strong with you...absolutely...whatever works. This is also known as the TLAR ("tee-lar") meaning That Looks About Right. Or my personal favorite, Zen Bombing. Can't argue with success.

Edited by busdriver
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The preferred method by Il-2 pilot Vasily Emelianenko (author of Red Star Against the Swastika), was the "boot" method: when he visualized the target passing underneath his flight boots, he released his bombs. It worked really well, and he was known throughout the VVS as being extremely proficient with dropping bombs like this.

Edited by LukeFF
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Just now, LukeFF said:

The preferred method by Il-2 pilot Vasily Emelianenko (author of Red Star Against the Swastika), was the "boot" method: when he visualized the target passing underneath his flight boots, he released his bombs. It worked really well, and he was known throughout the VVS as being extremely proficient with dropping bombs like this.

 

Yeah, but he had size 15 boots!

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Dropping bombs is fairly easy. Generally, all the major parts have already been covered here.

Make sure you put in a delay-time, so you don't blast yourself to pieces on a low delivery.

Too  shallow delivery-angles will promote skipping of the bombs (had two 500lb'ers skip out under a train recently), so make sure you're not coming in/ releasing at too shallow an angle (unless you want to).

 

Rockets.

Oh well, what can I say? They don't call them "Rocket Scientists" fer nuthin'!

The best part about the Bazookas is that you can jettison the pipes after you have consistently missed using them 🤣

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What about some pointers for A/A? In the Jug, I’m not performing well in multiplayer against any German fighter if we start at similar altitudes. It feels slow, underpowered, sluggish, and heavy to me. Although, those 50’s do feel good if you can get some shots off.

Edited by pegg00

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4 minutes ago, pegg00 said:

What about some pointers for A/A? In the Jug, I’m not performing well in multiplayer against any German fighter if we start at similar altitudes. It feels slow, underpowered, sluggish, and heavy to me. Although, those 50’s do feel good if you can get some shots off.

It really depends on the altitude and if you're flying by yourself or not.

 

Low alt 1v1 are risky and I usually try and stay away from them, if I'm with a friend then I'm willing to fight anywhere. The Jug performs best up high so I recommend getting to at least 10-15k before leveling off, this still isnt the best altitude for the Jug but it will perform better than being on the deck.

 

The Jugs maneuverability increases with speed and altitude, so faster/higher is always best. Up high the Jug "easily" outmaneuvers 109s and 190s.

 

When fighting an enemy at similar altitudes I'd either run away and try to get above them, or I'd try and force a head on. Forcing a head on is dangerous but you'll have a slight advantage due to the range of your .50s.

 

The Jug has good roll, dive and zoom (they get even better the higher you go), use these to your advantage, never turn if you can't get the kill right away and save your energy for when you really need it.

 

Flaps on the Jug are excellent and enable it to turn with 109s on the deck but they come at a cost so make sure you really need them before deploying them.

 

These are just some tips not exactly tactics but if you ever want to fly and do some mock dogfights let me know.

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