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Game version 3.007 discussion: Bf109K4, P47D28, Camel, Pfalz, FM, Multiplayer, Damage and more

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2 hours ago, fjacobsen said:

 

Though the amour of Tanks are thinner at the bottom, I doubt that this would work very well.

There might be real life combat reports indicating this, but do note that the number of Tank kills from Aircraft during WW2 was heavily exeggarated, both by the allies and the axis nations.

 

It is also take very precise aiming to get all 8 guns to hit the Tank, taking the gun convergence into consideration.

Even direct hits from 30mm AP rounds takes quite some hits at the right place to be effective.

 

 

bait.gif

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This is a completely un-scientific experiment on the two new planes ,the Jug & Kurfürst. I did an eight vs. eight at 2000ft combat on the “Quick Mission” once with me on the Allied side & then just reversed the battle. Now I have to admit even after all these years that I’m pretty much an average pilot that flys with normal settings. Without going into all sorts of detail, generally the “K’s” cleaned up. I got 3 Thunderbolt kills all by myself, generally by being a bit faster & turning inside the Jugs. I got no kills and was genrally killed or severely damaged or stalled & fell to my death in the three tries flying the P-47...not as good as I hoped...

Don’t get me wrong I LOVE the new Jug-its truly a beautiful aircraft & beautifully done by the developers. I will fly it & fly it often when ground support careers become an option in BoB, even into wickedly  accurate AA fire, but for now I’ll stick with the completely predictable 109 & 190 most of the time...

Like I said “unscientific...”

Edited by Blitzen
Misspelling
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@Blitzen Yeah, at even alt, especially lower alts, the Jug does not shine.  It acts more like a 190 that you seem more familiar with.  Always dive on the enemy, never turn with a 109, and use your massive engine to speed away from a bad situation.

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2 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

This is a completely un-scientific experiment on the two new planes ,the Jug & Kurfürst. I did an eight vs. eight at 2000ft combat on the “Quick Mission” once with me on the Allied side & then just reversed the battle. Now I have to admit even after all these years that I’m pretty much an average pilot that flys with normal settings. Without going into all sorts of detail, generally the “K’s” cleaned up. I got 3 Thunderbolt kills all by myself, generally by being a bit faster & turning inside the Jugs. I got no kills and was genrally killed or severely damaged or stalled & fell to my death in the three tries flying the P-47...not as good as I hoped...

Don’t get me wrong I LOVE the new Jug-its truly a beautiful aircraft & beautifully done by the developers. I will fly it & fly it often when ground support careers become an option in BoB, even into wickedly  accurate AA fire, but for now I’ll stick with the completely predictable 109 & 190 most of the time...

Like I said “unscientific...”

 

Nothing unscientific. Thunderbolt is very good fighter but need different tactic like other planes. Is ideal for z&b tactic, but in close dogfight have disadvantage - is too heavy and too big to close turns. Ofcourse if Jug have energy is able do turn like an Bf - but one time only. Another turn is highway to hell. Only personally experience from MP - with Jug I got 4 kills in one mission (3x Bf109 + 1x Fw-190). Z&b tactic only. Not very beautiful for look, but lethal. Returned to base without any damage. 

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7 hours ago, guidom said:

is it really? is this a known thing?

Yes, been active on the forums, messaging the dev's, and contacting support to try to get it fixed. I was able to playtest to isolate the cause of the bug. Look at Force Feedback Induced Camera Movement Stutter in Technical Issues and Bug Support if you're interested

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I tried a quick flight of our new Jug & Kurfürst, earlier within the QMB as well. Very different feel about them, that's for sure. I liked how the Jug shutters when turning to long, felt very immersive, and how nimble the K feels. The Ai are maneuvering well I think, I tend to set them as hard as they go, (try all different speed approaches as well). Still love the play back feature, and to be honest, I have never really used it for flight tactic analysis, just the flight scenes from different perspectives, like a big kid :)   

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Yes i figured ...definitely not a 'turn and burn" aircraft ( I'll probably be seeing the same sort of thing in the Tempest & definately in the Me-262.. if memory serves there were similar discussions when the Jug first appeared in the original Il-2 Sturmovik as well.)but what a 'Magnificent Beast !!!"

51cb07c0ae79ad56d5974754a46d015f.jpg

Edited by Blitzen
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12 minutes ago, Boomerang said:

Still love the play back feature, and to be honest, I have never really used it for flight tactic analysis, just the flight scenes from different perspectives, like a big kid :)   

But if we're honest with ourselves, aren't we all in this hobby just because of that very reason?

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"Playback feature"...is this another term for Flight Records or did I miss something...again? Sigh..😏..

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56 minutes ago, I./JG1_Baron said:

 

Nothing unscientific. Thunderbolt is very good fighter but need different tactic like other planes. Is ideal for z&b tactic, but in close dogfight have disadvantage - is too heavy and too big to close turns. Ofcourse if Jug have energy is able do turn like an Bf - but one time only. Another turn is highway to hell. Only personally experience from MP - with Jug I got 4 kills in one mission (3x Bf109 + 1x Fw-190). Z&b tactic only. Not very beautiful for look, but lethal. Returned to base without any damage. 

 

Excuse me?

 

Some of us like them "big boned".

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Jade Monkey ....perhaps you could put together a quick ground support mission for the JUG with a few Jerries thrown in to make things interesting....if you had the time... I play your Single Missions over & over ( they are fun,) & have great respect for your ability in this area...😉

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I tried the my regular "durability test" yesterday. Quick battle, spawn at 3km, dive on Pe-2 at 1.5km and try to kill it. Many times, P47 failed to spread democracy and it's engine either burst on fire or just stopped after the confrontation with the magnificent Vasili the Gunner. It might be that due lesser punch of .50 cals than 30mms on K4 I had to stay on target for much longer time.

 

I love the 50 cals here though, they indeed do low structural dmg but insane dmg to critical components when aimed properly.

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There is something strange with the P-47 boost system. Activating water injection in the real world *does not* give any sign on the MAP gauge, while you do have immediately the extra power due to the leaning of the mixture. Here, when I push "boost" (water injection), the needle on the MAP gauge takes a jump.

 

Question: Does the D-28 have an internal throttle regulator overriding the throttle and turbo setting (which I doubt) or do we see an artifact, namely the MAP dial reflecting actual power output?

 

If the engine controls have not changed (and got more elaborated) in the P-47 from the 22 blocks, then I think we have a bug report to be made.

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20 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

Excuse me?

 

Some of us like them "big boned".

 

:)

 

One of kills what i wrote above

2018_11_21__16_48_22.thumb.jpg.1245227d5aec2840698d5c8f31702ba9.jpg

 

Must say that i really like Thunderbolt. Cant wait to Mustang and especially to Lightning2018_11_21__9_24_47.thumb.jpg.a11a0fa498ff96a74f4deedc4a3f1a03.jpg

 

Edited by I./JG1_Baron
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21 minutes ago, Rjel said:

But if we're honest with ourselves, aren't we all in this hobby just because of that very reason?

The hobby of virtual flight where you feel something, admiration for war birds and their history, watching a smoking plane spin out of the sky for sure.. ? 

 

31 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

"Playback feature"...is this another term for Flight Records or did I miss something...again? Sigh..

😉

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33 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

There is something strange with the P-47 boost system. Activating water injection in the real world *does not* give any sign on the MAP gauge, while you do have immediately the extra power due to the leaning of the mixture. Here, when I push "boost" (water injection), the needle on the MAP gauge takes a jump.

 

Question: Does the D-28 have an internal throttle regulator overriding the throttle and turbo setting (which I doubt) or do we see an artifact, namely the MAP dial reflecting actual power output?

 

If the engine controls have not changed (and got more elaborated) in the P-47 from the 22 blocks, then I think we have a bug report to be made.

I think it is supposed to go past a gate as described here, but this movement past the gate doesn't seem to be modeled. 

 

 

Edited by [CPT]Pike*HarryM

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21 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

Jade Monkey ....perhaps you could put together a quick ground support mission for the JUG with a few Jerries thrown in to make things interesting....if you had the time... I play your Single Missions over & over ( they are fun,) & have great respect for your ability in this area...😉

 

Thanks @Blitzen, i had a mission ready but the taxiing part is not playing nice, so i need to tweak it a bit. Shouldnt take too long.

 

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30 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Question: Does the D-28 have an internal throttle regulator overriding the throttle and turbo setting (which I doubt) or do we see an artifact, namely the MAP dial reflecting actual power output?

 

When you turn on water injection switch on throttle lever:
- water solenoid valve opens,
- water pressure actuaters boos re-set mechanism, which connected to turbosupercharger control unit (you can see at external wiev hov exhaust manifold wastegates moves),
- mixture leaner valve opened.

So, MAP increased by turbosupercharger, and it is not a bug.

 

23 minutes ago, [CPT]Pike*HarryM said:

I think it is supposed to go past a gate as described here, but this movement past the gate doesn't seem to be modeled. 

 

If you mean take-off stop - it is modelled. At ground level, with prop pitch control fully forward at 2700 rpm  you has 52 inch manifold pressure at approx. 95% of throttle lever position - it is take-off stop position. At altitudes above ~3000ft. - you has 52 inch manifold pressure with all interconnected controls at prop pitch lever position according 2700 rpm (full forward).

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Yes, I just looked again and I see that there is a stop modeled which opens when get to a certain throttle setting. So water switch is independent of that, the video makes it seem they are interlinked somehow. 

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10 minutes ago, [CPT]Pike*HarryM said:

Yes, I just looked again and I see that there is a stop modeled which opens when get to a certain throttle setting. So water switch is independent of that, the video makes it seem they are interlinked somehow. 

 

Agreed - that's consistent with my understanding which is that when initially introduced in the early D blocks, water injection was activated by the button on the throttle.  However, within a few months it was linked to the throttle position pretty much as we have with MW50 in the late model 109s. 

Edited by Yardstick
typo

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1 minute ago, Yardstick said:

 

 Agreed - that's consistent with my understanding which is that when initially introduced in the early D blocks, water injection was activated by the button on the throttle.  However, within a few months it was linked to the throttle position pretty much as we have with MW50 in the late model 109s. 

D-5 to D-10 had a toggle switch for water,

D-11 to D-20 water was initiated on last 1/8th inch of throttle travel

D-21 onwards throttle was a momentary switch (i.e. you had to keep it pressed to keep water flowing)

These are all in the manuals

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30 minutes ago, Gavrick said:

When you turn on water injection switch on throttle lever:
- water solenoid valve opens,
- water pressure actuaters boos re-set mechanism, which connected to turbosupercharger control unit (you can see at external wiev hov exhaust manifold wastegates moves),
- mixture leaner valve opened.

So, MAP increased by turbosupercharger, and it is not a bug.

So it does recalibrate the throttle system. Thanks!! I did not know that.

 

Great job with the update!!

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8 minutes ago, RoflSeal said:

D-5 to D-10 had a toggle switch for water,

D-11 to D-20 water was initiated on last 1/8th inch of throttle travel

D-21 onwards throttle was a momentary switch (i.e. you had to keep it pressed to keep water flowing)

These are all in the manuals

 

Thanks for the clarification!

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Thank you BOX team for this great update.  Had a chance last night to try the 47 and K-4 and I must say that every thing is as advertised as far as I am concerned:salute:.

Flew a couple of career missions as well as a couple of PWCG campaign missions last night, the whole feeling of the game has shifted to a new and welcome level.

 

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1 hour ago, CSAF-D3adCZE said:

I love the 50 cals here though, they indeed do low structural dmg but insane dmg to critical components when aimed properly.

 

I prefer longer convergence settings but for instant "one trigger tap one kill" set it to shorter range like 200m or 150m. It works for the P-40, too.

 

Does the P-47 get the same 0.50" ammunition types as the earlier P-40/P-39? I ask because when I was QMB-ing the Thunderbolt I was burning planes left and right, especially the bombers.

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9 minutes ago, Ehret said:

 

I prefer longer convergence settings but for instant "one trigger tap one kill" set it to shorter range like 200m or 150m. It works for the P-40, too.

 

Does the P-47 get the same 0.50" ammunition types as the earlier P-40/P-39? I ask because when I was QMB-ing the Thunderbolt I was burning planes left and right, especially the bombers.

As far as I know, there is only one type of ammunition for the .50 cal machine guns.

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8 hours ago, blitze said:

Anyway, back to the action, I jumped back into my VVS Moscow fighter Career.  Is it me or are the visuals much improved especially with lighting effects?  I16, Il2, Mig 3, 109 E7 and F's are looking very nice.

 

The lighting for the Moscow map was improved. It's in the change list. :)

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Holy Moly! That P47 is LETHAL!

It flies a bit like a very advanced brick but get it on target and goodnight Vienna!

FANTASTIC cockpit in V.R!!!

 

AND try opening the canopy and waggling the wings to see the astonishing metal wing effect. Superb!

 

Edited by Lensman
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I love everything that they added in this patch, the P-47, K-4, more detailed damage system for vehicles. Got tired of the engine failing and it saying “.... destroyed “player”. The one thing I’m disappointed about is that the American pilot has a life jacket, yet he still dies when parachuting into any body of water. What’s going on here guys? This should have been fixed with patch 3.001, at the very most, 3.006, but no.😡

Other than that, I hope that we can fly the D-9 before the end of the year, as well as WIP pics of P-51, Tempest, and P-38

Edited by Novice-Flyer

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Tested 110 on career and it was same old story no escort on bombing missions and ai self harming ways which end up termination by anti-air or enemy fighters.

In other words broken.

 

Started F2 Career on Road to Rzhev shot down 5 Mig's on bomber interception mission they circle as usual.

Sixth enemy Mig tailed be back to my base when i ran out of ammo and did the old "feature" by hovering over my airfield watching how it was being eaten by friendly AA.

All my squadron got shot down by Pe-2 gunners because they dont have a clue how to engage bombers. ( 3x F2 shot down 0 Kills for AI teammates )

 

No changes to career AI difficulty levels still the same Ace to enemy or Ace to friendly planes. Both are equally bad at least would be nice to get all Random or something.

Its nice to have new paid content but does it really matter when the single play missions and AI is faulty.

 

Lot of planes and content but single play is still lacking behind.

Some improvements have been implemented with patches but they are just minor fixes and it seems to me there are no focus to finish it anytime soon.

So why buy new stuff when you cant really use the old ones?

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Blitzen said:

This is a completely un-scientific experiment on the two new planes ,the Jug & Kurfürst. I did an eight vs. eight at 2000ft combat on the “Quick Mission” once with me on the Allied side & then just reversed the battle. Now I have to admit even after all these years that I’m pretty much an average pilot that flys with normal settings. Without going into all sorts of detail, generally the “K’s” cleaned up. I got 3 Thunderbolt kills all by myself, generally by being a bit faster & turning inside the Jugs. I got no kills and was genrally killed or severely damaged or stalled & fell to my death in the three tries flying the P-47...not as good as I hoped...

Don’t get me wrong I LOVE the new Jug-its truly a beautiful aircraft & beautifully done by the developers. I will fly it & fly it often when ground support careers become an option in BoB, even into wickedly  accurate AA fire, but for now I’ll stick with the completely predictable 109 & 190 most of the time...

Like I said “unscientific...”

Don't worry. Make 10x1 ratio and you will do fine on the jug :P

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On 11/21/2018 at 5:23 PM, I./JG1_Baron said:

 

Must say that i really like Thunderbolt. Cant wait to Mustang and especially to Lightning2018_11_21__9_24_47.thumb.jpg.a11a0fa498ff96a74f4deedc4a3f1a03.jpg

 

 

I am with you. I must say groundpounding with this [edited] beast of a big ass bird is a whole lotta fun!

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
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I feel that all of this debate over the P-47s anti-air abilities (or lack thereof) is missing a crucial element: its ground-pounding abilities. I spent some time today practicing with a full ordinance load (2500 lbs of bombs, 6 rockets, and extra ammo) and was able to achieve far more ground kills per sortie than in even the Hs-129 or Bf110G. No, it doesn't have the escape speed of the A8 or the combat speed of the K4, but this plane will render any two-engine plane obsolete in MP.

 

That is, until the P-38 arrives...

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I shouldn’t complain, but the P-47 isn’t nearly as rugged as it’s real-life reputation. The engine dies very quickly after taking hits. 

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47 minutes ago, Manstein16 said:

That is, until the P-38 arrives...

 

Oh yes. Going train killing with the "Fork-Tailed Devil" will be fun.

p38.jpg

Edited by sevenless
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so im not sure if its just so rare ive never had it occur or a change in the ai behaviour but the ai and i (plyaing quick mission against a p47) decided to go head to head and play a game of chicken neither of us broke and i ended up with my first ever (after 40 hours flying) head to head crash from a fighter (had a few with the big slow bombers but never a fighter)

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On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 10:58 AM, JG4_Sputnik said:

Great stuff!!

Thanks for the hard work team :)


I see that the AI keeps formation "a bit better" has anyone checked out yet what that means? Is it finally over that the one plane flyes way too far in front ant the other three wouln'd keep up?

 

It's a bit circumstantial, and depends a bit on the aircraft.

At the moment the AI formation behavior is largely unchanged for some aircraft, while others behave significantly better, some small vertical maneuvering problems that cropped up were fixed. Larger aircraft still bounce around horizontally quite a bit.

 

I fully expect some attention to be paid to this in the not so distant future.

 

 

 

Edited by Gambit21
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1 hour ago, lord_certalic said:

I shouldn’t complain, but the P-47 isn’t nearly as rugged as it’s real-life reputation. The engine dies very quickly after taking hits

I suppose it depends what hits it? A hit from an MK 108 it's going to ruin the day real quick.

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