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Sybreed

Bombing in the 109

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I would like to know if I'm doing something wrong here.

 

I'm used to bomb with IL-2 and Mig-3s, but the 109 is giving me some trouble. The main issue is that the plane seems to "skid" sideways all the time making hitting a target kind of difficult. I need to correct my course with the rudders but even then it's not always good enough. I don't recall having the same problem with the other planes.

 

Is this something other people experienced? If so, how do you manage to control it?

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1 minute ago, Sybreed said:

I would like to know if I'm doing something wrong here.

 

I'm used to bomb with IL-2 and Mig-3s, but the 109 is giving me some trouble. The main issue is that the plane seems to "skid" sideways all the time making hitting a target kind of difficult. I need to correct my course with the rudders but even then it's not always good enough. I don't recall having the same problem with the other planes.

 

Is this something other people experienced? If so, how do you manage to control it?

 

I'm not having that problem myself, are you sure its not just a crosswind effect?
I also tend to also bomb at around 600kph and like to come in with some height, so as to zoom back out of danger.

Plus due to AA I jink a lot on the dive in.

I made a single player mission around this exact thing (bombing in 109f4) and did a lot of this (bombing in 109f4) during mission debugging. Hence I acquired a lot of experience on this technique as a result...

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4 minutes ago, Stix_09 said:

 

I'm not having that problem myself, are you sure its not just a crosswind effect?
I also tend to also bomb at around 600kph and like to come in with some height, so as to zoom back out of danger.

Plus due to AA I jink a lot on the dive in.

I made a single player mission around this exact thing (bombing in 109f4) and did a lot of this (bombing in 109f4) during mission debugging. Hence I acquired a lot of experience on this technique as a result...

ehh maybe it'S the wind!! Never thought to check the wind in BoK....

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Wind is extremely important when doing ground attack of any kind. Any sidewind beyond a couple of m/s can seriously throw off your aim. It is worst with rockets (slow-ish missile fired from a distance), but bombs (slow missile released at very close distance) and bullets (fast missile fired from a distance) are affected to.

 

With cannon fire you can sorta compensate for it, but the best thing is to simply take note of the wind direction (look for smoke columns or other giveaways) and simply attack into or away from the wind.

 

Coming from IL2-1946 this can be hard getting used to, since for some reason, wind didn't affect especially gunfire nearly as much in that game.

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7 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

Yes, you are bombing with 109. 

 

 

 

 

:ph34r:

 

I blame career mode for that xD

 

3 missions in one day in BoK, 2 of which are bombing ground targets with no escorts.

 

Fun.

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My bf 109 bombing accuracy is so poor that I use my wing cannon instead with great effect. 3 or 4 bursts will take out a bridge!

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On 11/13/2018 at 12:03 PM, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

Yes, you are bombing with 109. 

 

 

 

 

:ph34r:

 

True , but the Germans did it  or it would not have been an option . In mplay I don't use bombs on fighters myself...

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That's actually a good question: how much did they use the 109 as CAS ?

 

The 190 replaced the old stuka in that role and thus became regular but what about 109 ? 

 

On the other side of the channel Pierre Clostermann, spitfire pilot, said that the tests to put some bombs under the spitfire were not sucessful, it was really a pain to hit anything with those. And I'd say that such a frail plane wouldn't have resisted the AAA fire anyway.

 

Maybe when it comes to CAS the heavier the better...

Edited by Eicio

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36 minutes ago, Eicio said:

said that the tests to put some bombs under the spitfire were not sucessful, it was really a pain to hit anything with those.

 

The Spitfire went on to become a primary ground attacker with 2TAF accounting for a large proportion of their ground kills including through the use of bombs, the most popular loadouts being 2x 250lb underwing or 2x 250lb underwing +1 500lb underbelly.

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It hasn't been brought up yet so I'll mention that in addition it's very likely to do with the tail of the Messerschmitt machines. 

 

The vertical stabilizer (and likely the small fuselage side area) on Bf109s is too small, and constant rudder input was required to stop the plane skidding which becomes very apparent when you start lobbing bombs at the ground.

 

BF109s historically had to apply constant right rudder in the climb to keep the plane straight, and conversely at higher speeds heavy forces were needed on the left rudder in a dive- to the extent that it became noticeably harder to roll left than right at high speeds. This is modelled in game,

 

To exacerbate the issue, there was no trim for the rudder which might have reduced pilot workload significantly it was added.

 

RGDS

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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Found it easier to bomb along a transport column when having to do so in the 109.  Wind does play a part as well but usually in my Kuban Career, I would try to place a bomb at the head of a transport column and you would take out quite a few vehicles as the column would continue driving into the destroyed area and subsequent fires.

 

Also made strafing them easier after bomb release.

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I've used 3 techniques of bombing with all the 109 variants. In all these I've tried to release the bomb as late as possible to maximize accuracy.

 

First one is dropping a 250 kg bomb on a well defended area, like a bridge or a fortified enemy base. Here high speed is important to survive, so I dive from rather high altitude (above 2000m) to gain speed (600+ km/h) and maintain a shallow angle to be able to pull out of the dive. Bomb release is while still in the dive, at around 20m altitude, before leveling out. Trim is such that the joystick needs to be pushed to maintain the dive angle (makes it easier to pull out at high speed). This technique is also suitable for fw-190.

 

Second one is precision bombing in a safe area. Best practiced with the E7 variant because it can fly slower. Usually targets are parked tanks surrounded by sand bags, which need near direct hit with the small 50kg bombs. Here I set the airplane for low speed, with 25-40% flaps, open radiators, around -60% trim. I set up my flight path to align on target few kms in advance, go slow (less than 280km/h, sometimes even close to 200) at few hundred meters altitude, then dive at moderately steep angle (maybe 30-40 deg) while keeping the speed low (cut throttle and use flaps) and release the bomb at the last possible moment. This technique is also suitable for strafing the tanks from sides and rear (20mm penetrates the lighter models). Speed needs to be low to be able to pull out from few meters above the ground.

 

Third technique is level bombing from low altitude (like 5m above the ground). It's very effective on ships and landing boats because the bombs skip on the water surface until they hit the boat, like a torpedo. It's also usable on tanks traveling on roads, but much harder to score a hit and requires lot of practice. For tanks, fly as low as possible and release the bomb just as the tank passes under the 109's nose.

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Just started two Bf 109E-7 Jabo careers.

It's actually easier to bomb in the 109E than in the Fw 190, because the 109 is slower and won't pick up speed as quickly in a dive.

Also, the 190 will cruise 25kph faster with 200kg more of bombs (250kg + 4x 50kg) at the same rating (continuous power), which has you starting at a much lower engery level in the 109E in the first place.

 

The easiest way to score with bombs is trying to throw it into a gaggle of objects, rather than trying to hit a specific target.

Also, try to maximize the exposure of your target: When attacking long targets (eg. a bridge or a ship), try attacking longside. That way, a bomb falling slightly long or short will have increased chances of hitting. With ships, this will give you the additional benefit of fewer guns pointing at you, compared to a broadside-attack.

 

The point when to release the bomb is a matter of training and it's generally agreed upon by real life dumb-bomb throwers that bomb-attacks are rather a form of art than a science. You can take out a lot of randomness by standardizing attack-profiles, sticking to certain roll-in speeds and altitudes and by trying to minimize cross-winds.

If your attacking-angle is fairly shallow, the right time to drop is when the target has just vanished below your nose - at slightly steeper angles, drop and recover when the target is about to vanish behind the nose. It's a matter of developing a sense for it.

Beware target-fixiation and low pullouts!

 

Don't get frustrated! Bombing takes time to learn and mastering.

 

 

And now for something completely different:

Is there a way to have the 109 trim attached to a normal trim button? I don't want to use my zoom-axis for that effed-up trim-wheel in the 109.

Edited by Bremspropeller

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6 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

And now for something completely different

 

"....It's:"

 

Seriously now...

 

Is minimizing torque part of the technique? I should imagine there is probably an ideal RPM in a dive,  not only to avoid overspeeding the prop but also to help lining up,  as a full throttle will veer you off even more.

Edited by danielprates

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On 11/16/2018 at 12:21 AM, Lensman said:

My bf 109 bombing accuracy is so poor that I use my wing cannon instead with great effect. 3 or 4 bursts will take out a bridge!

Yeah, they still haven't fixed that damn bug!

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