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HappyHaddock

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On 2/4/2020 at 4:13 PM, HappyHaddock said:

@rowdyb00t

 

Nice looking images.  As mentioned previously there's a variety of stuff I've been working on which I've not mentioned here, and one of the reasons my work on the sky/clouds/lighting is taking so long is that it is only a small part of all I've been playing with by way of reworking aspects of IL-2. It is both amazing and frustrating how I somehow seem to be able to address most problems that bother me, but can't solve them in isolation meaning I then have to change the "next thing" upset by my last lot of changes. The more I dig the more unused potential I find in this game engine, yet the more I realise that development hasn't been limited by technology but the man hours of labour that can be economically afforded to any single aspect of this sim.

 

Plus real life has me pretty busy at the moment with a variety of sculpting commissions for various clients, meaning I probably shouldn't stop to see what has been shared every time my PC "bleeps" to notify me of some post or other on this forum.

Cheers

 

HH

 

I've been following your progress on this work with a lot of interest, but have a question that has occurred to me recently.

 

Will the proposed move to deferred shading mean that you will have to go back and redo things afresh again? I do think the sim would benefit from the kind of graphical revamp you have been working on. For me in recent years, gradually with various cloud fixes/adjustments (and also the graphics revamp around time of Kuban release) the visuals (clouds sky especially) have started to edge towards looking slightly 'cartoony' for certain time of day/weather combinations.

 

I suspect they may intend to tweak things themselves, as they usually seem to have a process of spotting what needs to be improved, and then scheduling it in. But maybe they have been waiting for the shift to Deferred Shading to be done before tweaking and adjusting the view and 'feel'?

 

All speculation I know. But where would this forum be without it?! 🙂 

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8 hours ago, kendo said:

 

I've been following your progress on this work with a lot of interest, but have a question that has occurred to me recently.

 

Will the proposed move to deferred shading mean that you will have to go back and redo things afresh again? I do think the sim would benefit from the kind of graphical revamp you have been working on. For me in recent years, gradually with various cloud fixes/adjustments (and also the graphics revamp around time of Kuban release) the visuals (clouds sky especially) have started to edge towards looking slightly 'cartoony' for certain time of day/weather combinations.

 

I suspect they may intend to tweak things themselves, as they usually seem to have a process of spotting what needs to be improved, and then scheduling it in. But maybe they have been waiting for the shift to Deferred Shading to be done before tweaking and adjusting the view and 'feel'?

 

All speculation I know. But where would this forum be without it?! 🙂 

 

I too have wondered this and can only speculate at this stage; My best "guess" is that in itself deferred shading shouldn't directly impact upon settings within the various files used to set up the look of environmental aspects, but that  if a lot of work is to be done on over-hauling the lighting engine that it will either be an excuse or the trigger to possibly re-vamp aspects like the stock clouds that have come in for some criticism. So if asked to speculate I'd say it may bring with it a simultaneous reworking of such things rather than directly necessitating it.

 

My only hope is that a move to deferred shading doesn't compromise the lighting. I was drawn to ROF and then Great Battles because of the superb things the lighting engine can do by way of actually creating natural looking lighting (well much more natural lighting than anything else I'd seen). With enough effort to fine tune and balance settings in the existing engine it is possible to achieve near photo-realistic results, and personally I would not want to see any of that sacrificed in terms of simply delivering faster frame rates,  though I understand that such things may be a priority for many others.

 

Much praise has been heaped upon DCS for its new night lighting making use of deferred shading to render hundreds of lights in buildings to produce cityscapes at night, however I have always felt its lighting looked incredibly artificial with surfaces looking "dead". The new videos I have seen of DCS at night whilst "technically impressive" in terms of doing a lot without impacting much on FPS, it doesn't do any of what it does convincingly so it has simply gone from a lot of fake looking stuff to a lot more fake looking stuff.

 

As for my own work I haven't had a chance to fire up IL-2 since new year but it is by no means forgotten.

 

HH

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Posted (edited)

Well so far this year work has been keeping me very busy so IL-2 has very much taken a back seat. However covid-19 looks set to see all the commissions in my work diary as a self employed artist/model maker  about to be potentially  exhausted. I normally work alone in my studio running what is essentially a mail order business for clients around the globe so my ability to work hasn't been impacted at all by having to self-isolate, but it has seen to it that the new e-mails and commission enquiries have dried up very rapidly, so I may be getting a bit more spare time on my hands in the near future.

 

Anyway @rowdyb00t has been messaging me a little more of late with questions about his own cloud mods where it has been interesting to watch him progress through the same learning curve I went through some while ago in terms of finding out what is possible. This has prompted me to fire up my work to remind myself where I was at and what is next on my to do list, where the bulk of what I need to keep plodding through is other environmental mod-work that isn't sky/cloud/lighting related.

 

Anyway I just thought I'd share this latest random quick screengrab which I think shows quite nicely the lighting effects I'd previoulsy been trying to achieve, aiming for a look somewhere between mother nature and an oil painting, and as far removed from a video game as I can manage.

 

Cheers

 

HH

 

 

 

light on clouds.jpg

Edited by HappyHaddock
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NICE!

I am happy and sad for you.  Sad that your livelihood has been impacted, glad that you can work more on making the game look better.

I hope a good balance can be found.

Meanwhile I always look forward to any new advancements you have to show us.  Someday we will all be pleasantly rewarded. 

Thank you for all you are attempting to achieve.

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4 hours ago, HappyHaddock said:

Well so far this year work has been keeping me very busy so IL-2 has very much taken a back seat. However covid-19 looks set to see all the commissions in my work diary as a self employed artist/model maker  about to be potentially  exhausted. I normally work alone in my studio running what is essentially a mail order business for clients around the globe so my ability to work hasn't been impacted at all by having to self-isolate, but it has seen to it that the new e-mails and commission enquiries have dried up very rapidly, so I may be getting a bit more spare time on my hands in the near future.

 

I feel ya. I do contract work in the game industry and graphic design in advertising, typically for the airline industry (<-- implosion) so nothing is happening on that end. I'm hoping you have enough liquidity and or took steps to ensure it. I saw this coming over a month ago and prepped for it. A lot of my friends however, they'll likely loose their homes along with their jobs, and its only going to get worse.

 

Do you have a website? I might know some people that could put some cash in your pockets.

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9 hours ago, DetCord12B said:

 

I feel ya. I do contract work in the game industry and graphic design in advertising, typically for the airline industry (<-- implosion) so nothing is happening on that end. I'm hoping you have enough liquidity and or took steps to ensure it. I saw this coming over a month ago and prepped for it. A lot of my friends however, they'll likely loose their homes along with their jobs, and its only going to get worse.

 

In terms of seeing this coming... well obviously I didn't predict a  global pandemic but I saw the 2008 Financial crash as merely a warm up act  for a major implosion of a highly leveraged and very fragile global economy addicted to debt, so I have spent the last decade slowly moving my investments towards things that would cope with such circumstances as the "next one" was going to be much bigger.  Covid-19 has been the pin that has been stuck into that bubble and came rapidly from nowhere, so whilst I wasn't expecting a pandemic to be the trigger I have been expecting financial chaos for some years...  In short I've no real financial worries over the near term panic as being a self employed artist you get used to an erratic income and naturally build a decent safety net into your cash flow and some diversity into my skill set  so I'm not dependent upon only one type of client.... I'll look upon it, in the near term at least, as just a bit of much deserved time-off after a manically busy start to the year!

 

The nature of my clients is such that work in some form or other will bounce back.... I know many will suffer far worse than me economically, and when looking at the rising global death toll economic losses pale into insignificance compared to the losses many families are already suffering.

 

I wish others all the best through what are very uncertain times.

 

HH

 

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On 3/28/2020 at 3:12 AM, HappyHaddock said:

 

In terms of seeing this coming... well obviously I didn't predict a  global pandemic but I saw the 2008 Financial crash as merely a warm up act  for a major implosion of a highly leveraged and very fragile global economy addicted to debt, so I have spent the last decade slowly moving my investments towards things that would cope with such circumstances as the "next one" was going to be much bigger.  Covid-19 has been the pin that has been stuck into that bubble and came rapidly from nowhere, so whilst I wasn't expecting a pandemic to be the trigger I have been expecting financial chaos for some years...  In short I've no real financial worries over the near term panic as being a self employed artist you get used to an erratic income and naturally build a decent safety net into your cash flow and some diversity into my skill set  so I'm not dependent upon only one type of client.... I'll look upon it, in the near term at least, as just a bit of much deserved time-off after a manically busy start to the year!

 

The nature of my clients is such that work in some form or other will bounce back.... I know many will suffer far worse than me economically, and when looking at the rising global death toll economic losses pale into insignificance compared to the losses many families are already suffering.

 

I wish others all the best through what are very uncertain times.

 

HH

 

 

There is a black swan event right around the corner that'll kick off a global credit default, mass unemployment (already occurring), a global currency zeroing, and we're already seeing the beginnings of hyperinflation. Granted, the virus is killing people, a lot of people. The concerns are that the economic repercussions of it will kill 13x as many people if the global economy poops the bed.

 

That said, I'm glad to hear you're stable. I have too many friends that have lost their jobs and are on the verge of loosing their homes because of it. I hear the renter/apartment debacle in NYC could put 1-3 million out on the streets. Talk about a crisis.    

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Posted (edited)

@HappyHaddock

 

  It seems things may be getting better for the clouds. I wonder if the new lighting of the DS will make things more pronounced. I’m definitely looking forward to that. Although I’m sure we will have to go back through everything to adjust the lighting but oh well, we shall see. 

Edited by rowdyb00t
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Posted (edited)

Well it's been a busy year so far with little time for IL-2 and that's not allowing for the fact I still haven't had chance to start what was supposed to by main project of building new workshop/studio to move my business out of rented premises, and just when I though that covid-19 was going to create some time in my diary I've somehow ended up working with a TV producer looking to get a new show off the ground... My experience of such things is that they'll pick your brains for as much as they can get from you for free  but that the show's rarely come to fruition and it is a real balancing act between how much unpaid work you are willing to do to give things the best chance of actually leading to well paid work and how much you simply stick with the certainties of more regular art commissions...

 

Anyway after seemingly months without being able to look at my work on IL-2 I've today fired it up again and just wanted to vent a little frustration about the inadequacies and limitations of sRGB as a colour palette.. it's fine for a lot of "broad brush" work but for anything with any artistic refinement it just falls flat on its face thorough only spanning a small faction of the hues and tones discernible to the human eye and does so with large crude jumps from one colour value to the next.

 

I understand full well why it won't happen, the work that would be involved in making such a change and that it would require the majority of folk to purchase new monitors simply to make the most of it, but just so that I can say I did mention it, a move to a 10bit (or higher)  colour space would be a fantastic surprise were it to come along with the devs planned move to deferred shading!

Edited by HappyHaddock
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 Good to hear from ya HH,

   I was looking forward to you getting back to the work in progress :biggrin: . I’m just about extending on my clouds. I haven’t had any new thoughts lately so maybe I’m topped out. I’ll have to agree with you on the sRGB colors but you can still do a lot with it.  Although I believe Great Battles is on the path to The future. 
 

 Also looking forward to more beautiful oil painting like pics of your much anticipated Work in Progress. 

  Cheers

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Outputting SRGB is fine, all our monitors are SRGB anyway.

But it would be lovely to have higher bit depth colour in game. E.g. a flat true HDR output. Would allow for real HDR monitors to shine, but also give highly accurate  colour and brightness based on tonemapping e.g. ACES

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19 hours ago, HappyHaddock said:

a move to a 10bit (or higher)  colour space would be a fantastic surprise were it to come along with the devs planned move to deferred shading!

Hold on to yourself. As long as GFX card vendors neuter the drivers to only display 8 bits and reserve 10 bits color depht for their "pro" products (FirePro/Quattro, etc.) you hardly get anything from increasing your texture handling overhead. You'd just compute a color gamut that is clipped when sent to the display, leaving less colors in the remaining picture. You know, nVidia has to make a living. You lose FPS there. Don't expect basic features unless you pay extra. With the Mac, you're lucky as you pay extra per definition, so you have 10 bit color support that on average supposedly even works by now. Support started AFAIK with El Capitan.

 

 

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1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

Hold on to yourself. As long as GFX card vendors neuter the drivers to only display 8 bits and reserve 10 bits color depht for their "pro" products (FirePro/Quattro, etc.) you hardly get anything from increasing your texture handling overhead. You'd just compute a color gamut that is clipped when sent to the display, leaving less colors in the remaining picture. You know, nVidia has to make a living. You lose FPS there. Don't expect basic features unless you pay extra. With the Mac, you're lucky as you pay extra per definition, so you have 10 bit color support that on average supposedly even works by now. Support started AFAIK with El Capitan.

 

 

 

Virtually every consumer GPU can do 10bit output now, just like nearly every game of the past decade+ has been drawing things to a framebuffer that is >8bit.

 

5 hours ago, peregrine7 said:

Outputting SRGB is fine, all our monitors are SRGB anyway.

But it would be lovely to have higher bit depth colour in game. E.g. a flat true HDR output. Would allow for real HDR monitors to shine, but also give highly accurate  colour and brightness based on tonemapping e.g. ACES

 

Its very easy to make the game use ACES, or Hable, or Reinhard or any other kind of tonemapper you can write, but I'll never understand how half the industry convinced itself that an intermediary should be used for final grade. 

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2 hours ago, LizLemon said:

Virtually every consumer GPU can do 10bit output now, just like nearly every game of the past decade+ has been drawing things to a framebuffer that is >8bit.

That would be 2015 where Dispay drivers started to send 10 bpc to the (PC) monitor. I think that is, at least for the bottom line, an optimistic assessment of yours. On my game rig, I cannot set the GF1080 for 10 bpc color depht. It remains greyed out, having connected an EIZO monitor via DP. I think this will be mostly the case, as most gaming monitors today only accept 8 bpc. My EIZO is about 4 years old and optmized for DTP, yet it still only accepts 8 bpc.

 

I would guess that in 95% of all cases (high estimate), consumers will see an 8 bpc image. First, The GPU vendors made 10 bpc a premium item and now, browsing through the offerings we have as monitors, 10 bpc seems to me as select premium for the monitors.

 

Internal processing, that is true, can be far more precice, IIRC early MS-Dos versions of 3DStudio could go up to 16 bpc. If you have lots of shading dependencies, id expect it to give a better picture, even if the picture is then downsampled to 8 bpc when it is shown on the screen. But none of all that is HDR, right?

 

Maybe you know this, what does the HDR function do in this game exactly? I see it as playing with the gamma, but as I get an 8 bpc sRGB image in my screen in either case, what does it do exactly? Is IL2's internal color processing higher than 8 bpc?

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The framebuffer is 16bit when HDR is turned on. It ends up more or less clipping things a bit (I think this is only when post_contrast=true in gpresets), then doing some automatic exposure and white balance adjustment.

1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

Internal processing, that is true, can be far more precice, IIRC early MS-Dos versions of 3DStudio could go up to 16 bpc. If you have lots of shading dependencies, id expect it to give a better picture, even if the picture is then downsampled to 8 bpc when it is shown on the screen. But none of all that is HDR, right?

 

Depends on what you mean by HDR - tonemapping a higher bitdepth image to 8bit, yes, HDR like Vesa HDR = no.

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To some extent the debate about data signals and processing is redundant if the display panel can't output the appropriate wavelengths and intensities of light to represent that data signal. Even today the vast majority of monitors are happy to accept sRGB as an input source but can't physically output the full extent of even this narrow colour space, what is more their colour accuracy is also so poor that even when they are theoretically capable of outputting the actual hue and tone asked for by the data signal they still get this wrong.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, pursuing ever more powerful GPU's can be some what of a waste of money in terms of improving image quality if the screen that is receiving the signal from them is making a hash of actually displaying that signal.... there's a reason professional artists and photographers spend more on their screens than all the rest of their computer hardware combined, and then having done so they spend more on equipment to actually calibrate those screens.... If you don't you get images that can look #$*~!

 

The marketing guys are going big time on selling the potential of HDR image data, but there's little benefit in that potential if the screen simply isn't even capable of making the most of sRGB.

 

HH

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Posted (edited)

Can I ask folk here a quick question....

 

I've been fighting to cure some horrific and glaringly obvious banding in some dark gradients and cursing at the sRGB colour space for not actually having any more values left to smooth the transitions between the tones that are causing me problems. I'm starting to wonder if I'm a victim of my own monitor, and as a professional artist, having spent a significant sum of money on a top quality screen that has an image quality far in excess of most.

 

I've tried things on my cheap back up screen (Though the term is relative as that is a Dell Ultrasharp IPS) and the issue looks far less noticeable but with a bit of squinting I can still make it out .  So can I ask what if anything others are able to discern in the image below?

 

Cheers

 

HH

 

 

 

banding.jpg

Edited by HappyHaddock
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Posted (edited)

No, checking again.

 

One black rectangle.

 

Edited by CanadaOne
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Solid black. Also: that picture with the WW1 planes, it’s beautiful! 

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I see 1, 2, 3.  Each number has a different background:

- 1: Very dark (black) background

- 2: dark grey (bluish tint maybe)

- 3: less dark, with green-blue tint. Shows most visible compression artifacts around the number

 

I hope it helps! 🙂

 

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4 hours ago, HappyHaddock said:

banding.jpg

 

Tried on 2 screens - both LCD with poor rendering. (I so miss my artistry OLED screen, RIP) 

 

1. Black with green number. 1 is not visible on my cheaper screen.

 

2. Grey/red with black number. The number is visible on both screens though requires squinting on the cheap one.

 

3. Green, number not really discernable on either screen but clearly something there.

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I see 3 panes.

Left pane is darkest, with a greenish 1;

Middle pane is lightest with a slightly darker 2;

Right pane is greenish with a barely discernable, slightly darker 3.

 

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I see the same as Yeikov:

 

I see 1, 2, 3.  Each number has a different background:

- 1: Very dark (black) background

- 2: dark grey (bluish tint maybe)

- 3: less dark, with green-blue tint. Shows most visible compression artifacts around the number

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the replies where it seems about half of respondents are unable to discern any content within the image. As the other half can it suggests that the issue is partly the limitations of an sRGB signal and partly down to having a decent screen capable of accurately replicating and distinguishing all the information within that data signal... Ho hum! when pushing to the limits of the existing software I suppose it is just one more thing to consider as I try to balance and fine tune things.... If only mother nature weren't so good at subtlety I wouldn't feel as compelled to achieve such levels of subtlety in my own work! The big, bold and brash stuff is so much easy to replicate.

 

Anyway, strictly speaking all of the coloured rectangles are  a good few points above 0,0,0 on the sRGB scale, so none of them are black they are all dark blues with just one point of increasing green content with each rectangle from 1 to 3.

 

With my blinds opened to actually let the morning sunlight shine through the window directly onto my monitor the issue is less pronounced than without, but things still show as three numbered rectangles... With the lower ambient light level I prefer in my office the difference metaphorically screams at me as harsh transitions between different coloured blocks.

 

Anyway it's been a while since I shared any screen shots so here's a quick snap taken recently... I hope the banding in the darker skies and reflections in the water aren't too obvious as it is stuff like this I'm trying to avoid.... If people do see a lot of banding then I've still a lot more work to do.

 

Cheers

 

HH

bridge at dusk.jpg

Edited by HappyHaddock
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Another case in point with a "dark" night sky taken in game; there is pretty much nothing left in the sRGB colour palette to smooth these transitions any more and yet the sky looks to be an abstract patchwork of blocks of colour. Of course it is less of an issue with bright near white tonal values as a 1 point change on a value of more than 250 is a tiny relative change compared to 1 point change to a value of 3 or 5 or 8 when dealing with very dark near black tones!

 

There's a real irony in spending a lot of money to obtain a monitor capable of actually portraying every hue and tone within a particular digital colour palette and then criticising that they all look different and don't smoothly blend from one to the next... Still there's always been the ongoing "tit for tat" incremental increases in potential  between software and hardware …  it's just that my monitor is seven years old now and I'd expect it to be holding back the software, not the other way around.

 

HH

banding night sky.jpg

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The picture with the bridge looks really good. I don't see obvious banding, only some slight patches of colour in the mid-right section of the sky (in the mid-dark colours), but I don't know if those are only jpg compression artifacts. In the unmodded game there's a lot of banding at night anyway, most visible while moving; the picture certainly does not seem to make things worse in that regard.

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2 minutes ago, yeikov said:

 In the unmodded game there's a lot of banding at night anyway, most visible while moving; the picture certainly does not seem to make things worse in that regard.

 

Thanks for the reply... I suppose there is some comfort in "not making things worse" …. though it sounds like it should be a  campaign slogan for that rarest of things... the honest plain speaking politician!

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Rather than butting against the wall with banding, we should probably just ask for dithering from the devs as a stopgap.

 

Also, upload these as losslessly compressed images (or as links to them) as demonstrating banding on a compressed jpeg just isn't useful.

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6 hours ago, peregrine7 said:

Rather than butting against the wall with banding, we should probably just ask for dithering from the devs as a stopgap.

 

Also, upload these as losslessly compressed images (or as links to them) as demonstrating banding on a compressed jpeg just isn't useful.

 

There probably is some truth to the fact that using jpeg compression isn't showing a fair representation  of how things look in game.

 

Whilst it is not so much a solution as simply a disguise, one of the things I have been able to do is create a new ICC profile for my monitor which plays with brightness and contrast and essentially flattens the gamma curve at the low end to minimise the banding in dark tones. Of course this doesn't help anybody else and does make things less "technically accurate" but if the end result is more pleasing then I can live with that so long as I remember to switch back when doing more colour sensitive creative work!

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23 hours ago, HappyHaddock said:

Another case in point with a "dark" night sky taken in game; there is pretty much nothing left in the sRGB colour palette to smooth these transitions any more and yet the sky looks to be an abstract patchwork of blocks of colour. Of course it is less of an issue with bright near white tonal values as a 1 point change on a value of more than 250 is a tiny relative change compared to 1 point change to a value of 3 or 5 or 8 when dealing with very dark near black tones!

 

There's a real irony in spending a lot of money to obtain a monitor capable of actually portraying every hue and tone within a particular digital colour palette and then criticising that they all look different and don't smoothly blend from one to the next... Still there's always been the ongoing "tit for tat" incremental increases in potential  between software and hardware …  it's just that my monitor is seven years old now and I'd expect it to be holding back the software, not the other way around.

 

HH

banding night sky.jpg

 

Color banding is awful and visible posterization.

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4 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

 

Color banding is awful and visible posterization.

 

I take it that you also have a reasonable monitor actually able to show the limitations of sRGB and how bad this looks... some folk don't see it!

 

JPEG compression may have done nothing to help but it still looks blocky and banded to me in game such that, as mentioned above, I've ended up creating a custom profile to reduce contrast in the lower end of the gamma curve.

 

There's always going to be limits within any colour gamut if you are trying to show subtle contrasts in a narrow proportion of that colour space that doesn't use 99.999% of the colour values available, and that's as true of 10bit as 8bit... it's just a shame when those limits feel so restrictive.

 

HH

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2 hours ago, HappyHaddock said:

 

I take it that you also have a reasonable monitor actually able to show the limitations of sRGB and how bad this looks... some folk don't see it!

 

JPEG compression may have done nothing to help but it still looks blocky and banded to me in game such that, as mentioned above, I've ended up creating a custom profile to reduce contrast in the lower end of the gamma curve.

 

There's always going to be limits within any colour gamut if you are trying to show subtle contrasts in a narrow proportion of that colour space that doesn't use 99.999% of the colour values available, and that's as true of 10bit as 8bit... it's just a shame when those limits feel so restrictive.

 

HH

 

Make me wonder why i don't see such "bad properties" in Rise of Flight sky dome, regardless of set mission time ?

 

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The game is dithering almost everything already. I don't know why but it looks like he disabled it somehow.

 

It is also using a 16bit framebuffer when HDR is set to 3 but 8bit at lower settings - this might also be tied to which graphics preset its set too. Its for sure a 16bit framebuffer with the graphics preset set to very high (3) and HDR at 3 in luascripts gpreset.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, LizLemon said:

The game is dithering almost everything already. I don't know why but it looks like he disabled it somehow.

 

Certainly not done intentionally… I've been playing around with a lot with my mods but not turning off the dither … I'm not even sure I'd know where to find an option to disable this?

 

Any pointers and I can check if this has been accidentally turned off?

 

HH

Edited by HappyHaddock

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, LizLemon said:

The game is dithering almost everything already. I don't know why but it looks like he disabled it somehow

 

I have always had the feeling that image looks smoother in game when HDR is enabled. So after your post I have checked an scenario with and without HDR (using Ultra preset), and indeed banding is much worse when HDR is off (mostly visible when looking at the sky, sea/rivers, or god-rays). To me it's almost not noticeable with it on. @HappyHaddock, I guess you have it off in your screenshots?

Edited by yeikov

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7 hours ago, yeikov said:

 

I have always had the feeling that image looks smoother in game when HDR is enabled. So after your post I have checked an scenario with and without HDR (using Ultra preset), and indeed banding is much worse when HDR is off (mostly visible when looking at the sky, sea/rivers, or god-rays). To me it's almost not noticeable with it on. @HappyHaddock, I guess you have it off in your screenshots?

 

The in game HDR setting , in so far as I can tell, is nothing to do with HDR in the sense of extended contrast and higher bit rate data, it is merely a modification of the sRGB signal to deal with the fact most screens are poor at displaying detail in the shadows. Whilst technically lowering image quality it will subjectively improve the appearance of darker parts of an image. I've not checked out the exact way this works in any measured or numerical way to tell if it is simply compressing all the colour palette into the lighter values, or is done through more of a gamma adjustment to simply minimise the proportional change from one low colour value to the next.

 

By default I do have the in-game HDR setting on (though I'll need to check if this has been disabled without me realising) 

 

HH

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