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How much of a bribe to get P-47 this week?

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30 minutes ago, 325th_Bugsy said:

This is a huge game changer for this sim. Once we get the P-47 and the P-51, I have no doubt that these 2 planes will bring a new life to this flight simulator. Having 2 of the best planes in the history of the war,  the allies will now be able to bring the hurt to the axis side.  Im super excited to see this next addon roll out . Bring on Bodenplatte!

 

Those two will be more competitive than the P-40 is now; that is for sure. I'd be a bit more conservative with the "hurt to the axis side", thought. Remember - in the sim engagements don't reflect all historical realities. Said that I'm (kind of...) excited too but the waiting is starting to be... irritating.

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Not really I've flown for the axis side since this game rolled out.  while the late 109 and the FW-190 are formidable foes...If the developers keep to the tradition of making the planes as historically correct as they can then 'Yes" these 2 planes will definitely rule the sky. I am also willing to bet that you see a ton of pilots flying these planes all the time for the allied side..it will even the sides out a ton...but time will tell that's for sure, either way I cant wait to get my hands on this upcoming add-on!

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52 minutes ago, 325th_Bugsy said:

If the developers keep to the tradition of making the planes as historically correct as they can then 'Yes" these 2 planes will definitely rule the sky.

 

You're probably thinking of the 8th Air Force who had planes making a whole lot more power. We're flying 9th Air Force planes so the Germans will have a leg up on Allies with their very-late-war mods.

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5 hours ago, 325th_Bugsy said:

This is a huge game changer for this sim. Once we get the P-47 and the P-51, I have no doubt that these 2 planes will bring a new life to this flight simulator. Having 2 of the best planes in the history of the war,  the allies will now be able to bring the hurt to the axis side.  Im super excited to see this next addon roll out . Bring on Bodenplatte!

Annnnnd  thennnn?!;-)

 

Edited by VicNighthorse
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1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

 

You're probably thinking of the 8th Air Force who had planes making a whole lot more power. We're flying 9th Air Force planes so the Germans will have a leg up on Allies with their very-late-war mods.

8th AAF P-47s weren't getting much more than the 9th.

70" only gave around 7-8 mph in gains. The main advantage the 8th had over the 9th was the ability to run 64-65" without using any water when using 150 fuel, that way you can save it all for when you really need it.

Edited by Legioneod

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3 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

8th AAF P-47s weren't getting much more than the 9th.

70" only gave around 7-8 mph in gains. The main advantage the 8th had over the 9th was the ability to run 64-65" without using any water when using 150 fuel, that way you can save it all for when you really need it.

 

I was talking more the P-51s and Lightnings

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1 minute ago, Talon_ said:

 

I was talking more the P-51s and Lightnings

Ah, gotcha. 

What were the performance increases with P-51s using 150? I know next to nothing about it.

Edited by Legioneod

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As a partially interested observer, I'm sitting here wondering if this thread is the tip of the iceberg. My thinking is that even if they do bring it out soon, it won't be available in any online maps until the Bodenplatte map is released. The soviets only received three P-47s in 1943 (the latest time frame for the sim currently) for evaluation purposes with a further 200 in 1944, and even then very, very few were used operationally according to what I've read (extract from Wikipedia article in the Spoiler below.

 

Spoiler

In Soviet service
The U.S. sent 203 P-47Ds to the Soviet Union.[36] In mid-1943, the Soviet high command showed an interest in the P-47B. Three P-47D-10-REs were ferried to the Soviet Air Forces (VVS) via Alaska in March 1944. Two of them were tested in April–May 1944. Test pilot Aleksey N. Grinchik noted the spacious cockpit with good ventilation and a good all-around view. He found it easy to fly and stable upon take-off and landing, but it showed excessive rolling stability and poor directional stability. Soviet engineers disassembled the third aircraft to examine its construction. They appreciated the high production standards and rational design well-suited to mass production, and the high reliability of the hard-hitting Browning machine guns. With its high service ceiling, the P-47 was superior to fighters operating on the Eastern front, yielding a higher speed above 30,000 feet (9,000 m). The Yakovlev Yak-9, Lavochkin La-5FN, Messerschmitt Bf 109G and Focke-Wulf Fw 190A outperformed the early model P-47 at low and medium altitude, where the P-47 had poor acceleration and performed aerobatics rather reluctantly. In mid-1944, 200 P-47D-22-REs and P-47D-27-REs were ferried to the USSR via Iraq and Iran. Many were sent to training units. Less than half reached operational units, and they were rarely used in combat.[37] The fighters were assigned to high-altitude air defense over major cities in rear areas. Unlike their Western counterparts, the VVS made little use of the P-47 as a ground attack aircraft, depending instead on their own widely produced—with 36,183 examples built during the war—special-purpose, armored ground-attack aircraft, the Ilyushin Il-2. At the end of the war, Soviet units held 188 P-47s.[37]

 

So while folks may have fun in Quick Missions with it, it is very unlikely to show up in WoL or KOTA for instance.

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They already have spit9s and g14s on some missions where they didnt fight or fly, and im sure they will have 47s and k4s, and others when they come before bobp map aswell on online servers.

 

16 hours ago, 325th_Bugsy said:

Not really I've flown for the axis side since this game rolled out.  while the late 109 and the FW-190 are formidable foes...If the developers keep to the tradition of making the planes as historically correct as they can then 'Yes" these 2 planes will definitely rule the sky. I am also willing to bet that you see a ton of pilots flying these planes all the time for the allied side..it will even the sides out a ton...but time will tell that's for sure, either way I cant wait to get my hands on this upcoming add-on!

 

so whats stoping you to balance the teams by flying p-40, or p-39 now, they are on planty missions online but not many play them, i like 47 but i dont see what some people see in that airplane like it will be so good to be able to handle k4s or d9s, and i bet there is few more players that will start flying red so atleast sides will get some balance, but youll not have number advantages that thouse airplanes had in real and benefited from it, and i know few who fly red now to balance sides who cant wait and will gladly start finaly flying blue most of the time if there will be big switch of players to red side :)

Edited by 77.CountZero

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Just remember the 47 is not a turn fighter , unless you have some mad skills , fly it like the 190 ..BnZ and get the hell out fast 

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Don’t get too excited about the prospect of the P-51/47  being OP. At the alts where 90% of sim flying gets done darling Dora and especially Kurt will be better. Virpils in my experience simply aren’t gonna climb to 30K, and if you do so in a MMO sim you’ll have a long peaceful flight in which you’ll spot nothing. Expect to see the P-38 to have a huge portion of “market share” because it can hang better with late 109s ;both horizontally and vertically) at low alts than the Jug or Stang. And at the altitudes where the action will mostly be found the Dora will be the preeminent “One pass, haul ass” fighter.

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6 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

so whats stoping you to balance the teams by flying p-40, or p-39 now, they are on planty missions online but not many play them,

Simply dont like those planes.

Edited by 325th_Bugsy

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12 hours ago, TP_Silk said:

As a partially interested observer, I'm sitting here wondering if this thread is the tip of the iceberg. My thinking is that even if they do bring it out soon, it won't be available in any online maps until the Bodenplatte map is released. The soviets only received three P-47s in 1943 (the latest time frame for the sim currently) for evaluation purposes with a further 200 in 1944, and even then very, very few were used operationally according to what I've read (extract from Wikipedia article in the Spoiler below.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In Soviet service
The U.S. sent 203 P-47Ds to the Soviet Union.[36] In mid-1943, the Soviet high command showed an interest in the P-47B. Three P-47D-10-REs were ferried to the Soviet Air Forces (VVS) via Alaska in March 1944. Two of them were tested in April–May 1944. Test pilot Aleksey N. Grinchik noted the spacious cockpit with good ventilation and a good all-around view. He found it easy to fly and stable upon take-off and landing, but it showed excessive rolling stability and poor directional stability. Soviet engineers disassembled the third aircraft to examine its construction. They appreciated the high production standards and rational design well-suited to mass production, and the high reliability of the hard-hitting Browning machine guns. With its high service ceiling, the P-47 was superior to fighters operating on the Eastern front, yielding a higher speed above 30,000 feet (9,000 m). The Yakovlev Yak-9, Lavochkin La-5FN, Messerschmitt Bf 109G and Focke-Wulf Fw 190A outperformed the early model P-47 at low and medium altitude, where the P-47 had poor acceleration and performed aerobatics rather reluctantly. In mid-1944, 200 P-47D-22-REs and P-47D-27-REs were ferried to the USSR via Iraq and Iran. Many were sent to training units. Less than half reached operational units, and they were rarely used in combat.[37] The fighters were assigned to high-altitude air defense over major cities in rear areas. Unlike their Western counterparts, the VVS made little use of the P-47 as a ground attack aircraft, depending instead on their own widely produced—with 36,183 examples built during the war—special-purpose, armored ground-attack aircraft, the Ilyushin Il-2. At the end of the war, Soviet units held 188 P-47s.[37]

 

So while folks may have fun in Quick Missions with it, it is very unlikely to show up in WoL or KOTA for instance.

Admin on KOTA already has a mission ready they are just waiting for the update / release !

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4 hours ago, CMBailey said:

 

Don’t get too excited about the prospect of the P-51/47  being OP. At the alts where 90% of sim flying gets done darling Dora and especially Kurt will be better. Virpils in my experience simply aren’t gonna climb to 30K, and if you do so in a MMO sim you’ll have a long peaceful flight in which you’ll spot nothing. Expect to see the P-38 to have a huge portion of “market share” because it can hang better with late 109s ;both horizontally and vertically) at low alts than the Jug or Stang. And at the altitudes where the action will mostly be found the Dora will be the preeminent “One pass, haul ass” fighter.

 

I've been saying this for months. I started my own topic about, and have commented on other topics about how to implement high altitude objectives or something like that to try to bring the fight to a higher altitude with BoBP, which would be a bit more representative of the typical western front engagement, although operation Bodenplatte itself did take place specifically  at low altitude.

 

It would allow our shiny new American aircraft to shine, and to fight in the environment they were design to excel in. If the fights always stay on the deck, there would just be so much wasted potential in these aircraft.

 

One final thought: even if nothing changes, I don't think you will have a problem finding Germans at 6k (~20,000 ft) once BoBP releases, considering how many Luftwaffles already spend all of their time up there being useless to their team. However, keep in mind that just because you could, that doesn't make it any more of a good strategy for winning than it is now. If all of the objectives are still on the ground, there really isn't anything valuable to do that high up. 

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5 minutes ago, itsthatguy said:

 

I've been saying this for months. I started my own topic about, and have commented on other topics about how to implement high altitude objectives or something like that to try to bring the fight to a higher altitude with BoBP, which would be a bit more representative of the typical western front engagement, although operation Bodenplatte itself did take place specifically  at low altitude.

 

It would allow our shiny new American aircraft to shine, and to fight in the environment they were design to excel in. If the fights always stay on the deck, there would just be so much wasted potential in these aircraft.

 

One final thought: even if nothing changes, I don't think you will have a problem finding Germans at 6k (~20,000 ft) once BoBP releases, considering how many Luftwaffles already spend all of their time up there being useless to their team. However, keep in mind that just because you could, that doesn't make it any more of a good strategy for winning than it is now. If all of the objectives are still on the ground, there really isn't anything valuable to do that high up. 

 

An objective to patrol a certain area at a certain altitude would be nice. It would encourage high altitude fights and give fighters a legitimate reason to fly high.

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32 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 

An objective to patrol a certain area at a certain altitude would be nice. It would encourage high altitude fights and give fighters a legitimate reason to fly high.

 

it can be achived only if targets are set so bomber benefits from bombing them from high or mid alt, unlike its now that every single building or truck or what not needs to be destroyed, so only first pass from bomber is good to drop from high but if you wont to finish objective you have to get ju88 or pe2 down on deck and pinpoint bomb.

 

In clod they would define area of town as target and when certen number of kg of bombs is drop in that area objective is finished, and you add low alt flak over it so low alt flyers dont go for that target and youll get bombers flying high as it pays off and then fighters having to fly high in that area atleast.

 

mission designer can still how low alt objectives like now, but some like industrial or airfield targets should be area and not depended on every single house or truck being destroyed if bombing from high alt is to be seen online.

 

bombers and ga guys dictate how high fights will be, it was always like that and untill targets are like they are even if we get B-17 it would pay more to fly on 100m with it and drop every single bomb pin point on every single house then fly 30kft and bomb factorys from there.

 

recently i mostly see industrial targets being attacked by 110s il2s or even pe2s with guns after they drop bombs as buildings are still week to gunfire so you can destroy buildings like hangars or factorys just by shooting at them, how can you expect to see more high alt ga guys when its mutch faster and eseyer to just fly low and pinpoint destroy stuff in target area.

Edited by 77.CountZero
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16 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

it can be achived only if targets are set so bomber benefits from bombing them from high or mid alt, unlike its now that every single building or truck or what not needs to be destroyed, so only first pass from bomber is good to drop from high but if you wont to finish objective you have to get ju88 or pe2 down on deck and pinpoint bomb.

 

In clod they would define area of town as target and when certen number of kg of bombs is drop in that area objective is finished, and you add low alt flak over it so low alt flyers dont go for that target and youll get bombers flying high as it pays off and then fighters having to fly high in that area atleast.

 

mission designer can still how low alt objectives like now, but some like industrial or airfield targets should be area and not depended on every single house or truck being destroyed if bombing from high alt is to be seen online.

 

bombers and ga guys dictate how high fights will be, it was always like that and untill targets are like they are even if we get B-17 it would pay more to fly on 100m with it and drop every single bomb pin point on every single house then fly 30kft and bomb factorys from there.

 

recently i mostly see industrial targets being attacked by 110s il2s or even pe2s with guns after they drop bombs as buildings are still week to gunfire so you can destroy buildings like hangars or factorys just by shooting at them, how can you expect to see more high alt ga guys when its mutch faster and eseyer to just fly low and pinpoint destroy stuff in target area.

 

Thats why I said there should be a specific objective call combat patrol or something.

 

Example:

Obj. Combat Patrol

Patrol in sectors 1125,1126, and 1127 for 15min at an altitude of 22,000 - 25,000ft.

 

Players would have to patrol those areas for 15 min in that altitude to complete the objective.

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40 minutes ago, itsthatguy said:

One final thought: even if nothing changes, I don't think you will have a problem finding Germans at 6k (~20,000 ft) once BoBP releases, considering how many Luftwaffles already spend all of their time up there being useless to their team. However, keep in mind that just because you could, that doesn't make it any more of a good strategy for winning than it is now. If all of the objectives are still on the ground, there really isn't anything valuable to do that high up. 

 

I disagree... You want to drag the enemy that high if you are driving turbos. You want to cruise that high in the P-38/P-47; then descent to the ground target just to make an interception less likely. Finally, to counter the 262 in the Jug you will need all potential energy one can get.

The Tempest and the Mustang will be better if one would like to stay at low/medium altitudes. Even the Spit IX is almost as fast at the deck as the P-38/P-47.

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17 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 

Thats why I said there should be a specific objective call combat patrol or something.

 

Example:

Obj. Combat Patrol

Patrol in sectors 1125,1126, and 1127 for 15min at an altitude of 22,000 - 25,000ft.

 

Players would have to patrol those areas for 15 min in that altitude to complete the objective.

 

ah ok, yes that would eliminate that fighters have to relay on bomber guys, i dont remenber i ever see something like that would be nice to see how it would work

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1 hour ago, Ehret said:

 

I disagree... You want to drag the enemy that high if you are driving turbos. You want to cruise that high in the P-38/P-47; then descent to the ground target just to make an interception less likely. Finally, to counter the 262 in the Jug you will need all potential energy one can get.

The Tempest and the Mustang will be better if one would like to stay at low/medium altitudes. Even the Spit IX is almost as fast at the deck as the P-38/P-47.

 

The final point I was making was that if you are covering a ground objective, you are still going to be almost worthless to your team if you are circling it at 6k in your P-51 or P-47, just like you would be right now if you did it in a 109. All the enemy has to do is come in on the deck and you will never see them.

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15 hours ago, 325th_Bugsy said:

Simply dont like those planes.

 

Me neither but I still fly them to balance the game. Perhaps we should just all fly Axis together ... lets stop MP and fly all as coop because the selfish ones do not care about it anyways. 

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14 hours ago, itsthatguy said:

 

The final point I was making was that if you are covering a ground objective, you are still going to be almost worthless to your team if you are circling it at 6k in your P-51 or P-47, just like you would be right now if you did it in a 109. All the enemy has to do is come in on the deck and you will never see them.

 

IF there were more coordination, you could fly like that in a stacked formation with a pair at 6K, a pair at 3K and a pair down at 1.5K. That way you have spotting at all altitudes and can call your friends in to bounce higher flying bandits.

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On 11/5/2018 at 7:27 PM, Legioneod said:

Technically not the highest scoring aces that goes to the P-38. The P-47 did have the highest aces in Europe though, and maybe even the most aces but I'm not sure on that.

 

The 56th FG alone had 39 aces and over 650 aerial victories to a loss of only around 45.

That's odd, I don't see any P-38 pilots in the top 300 highest scoring aces even. No P-47 pilots either. Even in Europe. Hmmm, I must just be no good at statistics😉

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1 hour ago, VicNighthorse said:

That's odd, I don't see any P-38 pilots in the top 300 highest scoring aces even. No P-47 pilots either. Even in Europe. Hmmm, I must just be no good at statistics😉

American aces I mean, I'm sure you knew that though.

 

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On 11/10/2018 at 4:53 PM, Legioneod said:

American aces I mean, I'm sure you knew that though.

 

Of course, I was just yanking your chain;-) No criticism was intended, just poking fun.

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On 11/10/2018 at 9:43 PM, VicNighthorse said:

No P-47 pilots either.

 

They were converted to P-51s before the end of the war but got almost all kills in the P-47s.

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On 11/10/2018 at 10:43 PM, VicNighthorse said:

That's odd, I don't see any P-38 pilots in the top 300 highest scoring aces even. No P-47 pilots either. Even in Europe. Hmmm, I must just be no good at statistics😉

 

I think I can help you with that P51 and P47 part:

 

 

P51.jpg

P47.jpg

Edited by sevenless

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On 11/5/2018 at 9:09 AM, Trooper117 said:

I'd pay just to stop yet another thread on the P-47...

Good luck with that. It was the most produced US fighter of the war. Might as well wish people would stop talking about the 109..

 

 

On 11/5/2018 at 8:15 PM, Talon_ said:

 

image.thumb.png.4e67fda36873c693f3c6a8d8ea775be4.png

A couple of things jump out, first is, it is a P-47B at 400 mph at 10,000ft. I'm assuming it is TAS, but I'm not sure any of those could reach 400mph at that altitude, so the may be predicted values rather than test results. 

 

Second is, this was discussed to death in the old IL-2 forums, but it turned out there was a change in the aileron linkage design during the P-47's development that some found the test data for, that ultimately increased roll rate, particularly at higher speed. That was something like 10-15 years ago so it may take some digging to unearth, but after all the "fun" everyone had last time, I'm pretty sure the team still has the data, if only to not have to go through all that enthusiasm all over again.

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