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Macchi 202 - really?

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2 hours ago, moosya said:

it would be awesome if we got 205... one can only wish...

 

51rTnigvcmL._SY370_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

is this better  moosya?

Edited by MiloMorai
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Vasilij is talking about how to fly and fight in this plane. Not how pretty and sexy it is. La's or Spit's dont give a damn how adorable you look in or with your plane. If 202 is far superior to I16, well, how often you can face I16 on KOTA or TAW? Beginning of campaign maybe, that's it. Everything else will send you to Valhalla. You can practise as much as you like against AI, that ain't human being. And as we know on dark side, Ivans wear antiG-suit and their planes are made of concrete birch tree. 😉 That is our folklore talk in JG26.

Or you are just spoiled from flying red planes only.

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I like flying the MC.202... sometimes because its the only not Bf109 fighter available. It's admittedly not as good as the Bf109F series and later but I like it better than the Bf109E-7 and I love that it has quirks. The handling is equal parts wonderful and problematic, the firepower is somewhat limiting, and the cockpit is not at all one that I can quickly read information from (I need more flight time) but I enjoy myself every time I come back and fly it.

 

Once you learn its flying quirks, I think you can make this fighter do quite a lot. It has good control authority, decent climb rate, an ok-ish top speed, and the dive is excellent. I fly this as a more conservative Bf109 pilot with plenty of boom and zoom and reserving close in fights for when I have few other options. It does handle well and I can stick on most opponents fairly well.

 

I tend not to pick the MC.202 because its the best or even a top performer. It's decent and well matched in the 1941 aircraft set that it belongs in. What it makes up for in performance it adds in uniqueness. That's definitely why I wanted it.

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Secret to the Macchi is never turn left, it really is two different planes, thanks to the asymmetrical wings.  If you fight turning, or climbing left your probably dead meat, the performance is that drastically different.  Proof is right there in the Mr X video, he makes all his gains going right, and gets shot and loses position and altitude advantage when he chooses left.  If you fly allied remember Stalin is a leftist, follow his example and live.  Check it yourself, same bank angle indication and power setting, climb tracks both ways through the same altitude band watching the clock.  One way it's on par with the 109's.  It's not a very good stall fighter, but absolutely deadly to it's own pilot in a tight continuous left turn, so has two different corner speeds depending on direction.

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4 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

[...] t's decent and well matched in the 1941 aircraft set that it belongs in. [...]

 

Only problem with this is that it shouldn't really "belong" to the 1941 planeset (see above). If it was only good against an I-16, i don't see why it was praised because that's not what they were mainly facing.

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4 hours ago, rolikiraly said:

 

Only problem with this is that it shouldn't really "belong" to the 1941 planeset (see above). If it was only good against an I-16, i don't see why it was praised because that's not what they were mainly facing.

 

It doesn't? First introduced in 1941, historically the MC.202s were mainly facing 1941 and 1942 era P-40B/C/D/E/F, Hurricane II, and Spitfire Vs. Given the relative performance of those three aircraft (and considering the Spitfire's 9+ and 12+ boost and draggy Volkes air filter) I can see why the MC.202 performed relatively well and had a good reputation.

 

If we're talking about its limited time on the Eastern Front then in the early stages it would have been facing a somewhat familiar array of aircraft that we have including older and newer Yak series (with M-105P and newer ones with the M-105PF) at which point its performance is indeed somewhat lacking. Of course, MC.202 operations were limited on the Eastern Front and its mostly here as an interesting aircraft rather than one that saw extensive service.

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Yes, we can agree in that it's an 1941 plane (still introduced later than BF-109F-4 and first series of Spit V) but it was used in Stalingrad campaign and until 1943 in Italy. So, let's say it belongs to both Moscow and Stalingrad-era planesets.

I still think that a fighter that was said to be a roughly equal opponent of the Spit V (Volkes filter or not) could compare better to a mid 1942 LaGG (worst reputation of all widespread fighters basically) or Yak or even a later Spitfire than it does in-game. Maybe it's better than the P-40 but as far as i can remember that is another plane that was said to be modelled in a not quite optimistic way in-game.

From low skill pilot perspective, i must agree with the OP. Aside from looks and aerobatics over the empty airfield, it feels rather underwhelming after trying F4, Yak1 and FW-190.

 

Edit: But i admittedly have some instinctive disbelief when it comes to the wonders of the Soviet industry, so i might be entirely wrong. it's not a dev bashing post (i love them as always) it's just an opinion.

Edited by rolikiraly
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On 10/27/2018 at 6:21 PM, rolikiraly said:

i admittedly have some instinctive disbelief when it comes to the wonders of the Soviet industry

I guess it's a perception issue. There are many things fundamental in aerial warfare that cannot be simulated in a video game. The reliability of the radio is just one case in point. We have flight models based on reports based on the performance of a few planes actually tested. We fly paper planes, not the actual ones. No guarantee that each production aircraft could perform as the tested plane could, but the higher the manufacturing quality, the lesser the margin. Early-war Russian planes and late-war German planes do benefit from this issue, while the rest seem to be porked in comparison with them. Historical accuracy, that FMs are based on recorded data, involves that you sometimes have to fight "ideal" planes while flying just an "average" one. While the historical average of 202s and P-40s was probably fairly close to what we have in-game, the historical average of LaGGs was much worse probably.

What I do really wonder is whether the Breda was really that ineffective. No offence, just a question from a MiG pilot. ;)

Edited by sniperton

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well, from your posts I got some clues...

 

+ Boost can be engaged for few minutes, its just more than enough for the fight.

+ Dont turn left, but turn right.

+ elevator gives you always a chance to pull more

 

my own conclusions from flying:

+ rudder is very effecient and yaw bank is higher than enemy. it saves your life many times

+ good maneuverability in middle and high speeds. After diving it can turn in all axis like spit IX

+ always take the 2 gunpods. Only such firepower can make destructive damage on enemy. And in such old plane it is very welcomed to get maximum damaged when you even have a chance to fire.

 

 

- Probably I will never get familiar with the fact that Negative loads cannot be used. (my often evasive maneuver) And also I lost a lot of targets when in almost firing positions. When they pushed the plane too strongly.

- too fragile. One small hit makes this plane hard to fly.

 

It needs a patient. Man must fly this plane carefuly, that it was made for purpose of beaty and esthetic not for combat :)

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, 3.IAP_Vasilij said:

+ Boost can be engaged for few minutes, its just more than enough for the fight.

 

you can run with Boost engaged for an unlimited time if you have throttle at =<69% (~1.25ata).

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8 hours ago, 3.IAP_Vasilij said:

+ always take the 2 gunpods. Only such firepower can make destructive damage on enemy. And in such old plane it is very welcomed to get maximum damaged when you even have a

 

 

There was no 20mm gunpods for Macchi 202 and i still wonder why developers decided to add them to use.

There was some testing with cannons on 202 but it was just prototype and definitely was not in eastern front.

 

Why developers did this i cant answer..

 

It hurts my mind :(

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I would suppose to give the Macchi 202 some much needed offensive punch. 

 

As always, if you are a historical stickler, one can fly a Macchi without the gun pods. :salute:

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Just now, Thad said:

I would suppose to give the Macchi 202 some much needed offensive punch. 

 

As always, if you are a historical stickler, one can fly a Macchi without the gun pods. :salute:

 

 

Yes i use in wings 7.7mm only :)

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When I fly the Folgore, almost always offline now a days, I never take pods or wing guns, and I have never felt that it was undergunned.

 

Aim carefully, and get hits on the engine, cooling system, or the cockpit.  Works for me in any case.

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4 hours ago, Godspeed said:

 

 

There was no 20mm gunpods for Macchi 202 and i still wonder why developers decided to add them to use.

There was some testing with cannons on 202 but it was just prototype and definitely was not in eastern front.

 

Why developers did this i cant answer..

 

It hurts my mind :(

 

Because the old campaign system with its unlocks was still a thing back then, and the Macchi needed something like this to add to the list.

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14 hours ago, 3.IAP_Vasilij said:

well, from your posts I got some clues...

 

+ Boost can be engaged for few minutes, its just more than enough for the fight.

+ Dont turn left, but turn right.

+ elevator gives you always a chance to pull more

 

my own conclusions from flying:

+ rudder is very effecient and yaw bank is higher than enemy. it saves your life many times

+ good maneuverability in middle and high speeds. After diving it can turn in all axis like spit IX

+ always take the 2 gunpods. Only such firepower can make destructive damage on enemy. And in such old plane it is very welcomed to get maximum damaged when you even have a chance to fire.

 

 

- Probably I will never get familiar with the fact that Negative loads cannot be used. (my often evasive maneuver) And also I lost a lot of targets when in almost firing positions. When they pushed the plane too strongly.

- too fragile. One small hit makes this plane hard to fly.

 

It needs a patient. Man must fly this plane carefuly, that it was made for purpose of beaty and esthetic not for combat :)

 

 

 

While I'm an advocate I was testing the various aircraft armaments this weekend and had no issues causing fires with the 12.7s and 7.7 combo so take what your comfortable with.  I love firepower but it takes its toll.

 

Flying arround low at 69% throttle boost on makes a huge difference as well and you can throttle up a little in climbs and as altitude increases (iirc you can eventually get up to 100% and stay in continuous power).  Also the tip about going right helped me alot and I never thought about that before.  

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Not an expert on the 202, but i think on the Series 8 the wingmounted 7.7, actually where standardly equipped.

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15 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Aim carefully, and get hits on the engine, cooling system, or the cockpit.  Works for me in any case.

 

Yes this works for me as well, Sometimes I choose the aileron rods, so the pilot is unable to turn anymore, or my speciality is to hit the photos glued in the cockpit of pilots wives. They get angry and then are making faults in combat.

 

Once I hit the radio wires so they lost their wifi signal. this sucks as well.. 

😄😄 

Yesterday was flying with gunpods. And yes this works.

Now I will try to fly with the "real" 7,7.

 

The right turns are so wonderfull. Once I got Spit IX in the long right turn. He was so angry that disconnected immediately 😄 

 

Its not such bad plane as I wrote firstly, right ?

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On 10/26/2018 at 12:47 PM, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

It's the only plane in the sim that makes me feel like Porco Rosso. 

 

So, a fat lazy pig? 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy

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3 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

 

 

 

I understand you probably meant it as a joke but there's a lot of negative sentiment coming from the eastern european community towards players flying the Luftwaffe machines. Usually from much older individuals (50+) who somehow still remember the echos of the WWII..  somehow.. not sure how.. but they all feel like they were there.. fighting the Nazis with their bare hands.. in the sky.  It's bizarre.

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4 hours ago, moosya said:

 

I understand you probably meant it as a joke but there's a lot of negative sentiment coming from the eastern european community towards players flying the Luftwaffe machines. Usually from much older individuals (50+) who somehow still remember the echos of the WWII..  somehow.. not sure how.. but they all feel like they were there.. fighting the Nazis with their bare hands.. in the sky.  It's bizarre.

 

Nah, its usually due to balance being all over the place when MP servers are filled to the gills with hartmanns and no one flying VVS. 

 

This will all soon change, when no one will fly axis and everyone will be jerking off in P-47 and P-51's. [edited]

 

And the irony of all this is that many VVS players are VVS due to fact no one else is, most MP servers would die without the few people who want to fly axis but still fly VVS for balance sake. 

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
lenguage
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Hi all,

 

Last time I have to repeat this to certain members: No Politics of anykind at this forum, no cheats accusations, profanity, rudeness, etc...

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

 

Haash

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Sheesh, ain't nothing wrong with wanting to fly your home teams rides.  I'll fly US rides, ya'll can wear pink panties if that's your thing.  Could care less.

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And there I was, thinking "hey, lets take a look what other folks think about the Mc.202, maybe learn a bit from regular fliers"...

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2 hours ago, JtD said:

And there I was, thinking "hey, lets take a look what other folks think about the Mc.202, maybe learn a bit from regular fliers"...

 

Yeah, no kidding man.  I just wanted to read about airplanes.

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I would like to know what can you do with the horrible view from cockpit? Any trick or tip for a player with no trackir or vr (apart from getting rid of it completely)?

It's really bad when you've been flying Focke-Wulfs for some time.

 

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19 minutes ago, rolikiraly said:

I would like to know what can you do with the horrible view from cockpit?

Open it. Helps a lot in the -40 as well.

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2 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Open it. Helps a lot in the -40 as well.

I remember the canopy ripping off on the 202, like the 109s. Am I remembering it wrong?

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You remember correctly, the canopy on the 202 does not slide back but opens to the side like the 109.   So if you open it in flight it will be ripped off, and you will suffer a degradation of airspeed.  Not a good thing.

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If you are in a situation where only twisting your neck to the extreme is gonna save you, that extra speed is of little concern. Ans yes, should you make it through it, you better go home.

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Better cockpit visibility would help in not getting into trouble. Situational awareness, seeing the enemy first yadda yadda. When you already are in one, ejecting the cockpit and losing speed makes things even worse.

 

Not using the armored plexiglass helps a bit.

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I think the 202 is a lot like the mig. Its got an airspeed sweet spot where it handles very well. Not so much outside of the band.

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LW attack/bomber pilot here. Ironically the MC 202 is like the only fighter I enjoy using and am good with. 

 

Anyone who complains about the guns being too weak just needs to git gud. (this might involve eating multiple large Italian entree's)

 

mc202_title.jpg.902597bdbece3a224277e5c8a65cd572.jpg

On 10/28/2018 at 4:23 PM, Leon_Portier said:

Sometimes, I wonder what I like the 202 so much.

 

for me it's the fuel gauge hehe

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