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WWSitttingDuck

Bomb sight accuracy

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With all the attention to detail the dev's have put into this game, would not be surprised to find they put a little inaccuracy into the bomb sights.

 

So if i drop a bomb from 4km into the backseat of a truck, but my next drop goes long, and my next drop after that goes short, is it because I just plain got lucky on the first drop, or is that kind of inconstancy built into the bomb sight.

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I think if there is no wind, then your bombs will be fairly acurate. Obviously the higher up you are, the harder it will be to drop an accurate bomb. With wind if you want to be 100% accurate you would have to do some maths. for example. you might have winds like this:

 

1K: 2m/s 120°

2K: 3m/s 110°

....

5K: 3 m/s 100°

 

So if I am bombing from 5K I usually just set my bombsight up for 3m/s at 100°, but I think (and someone can correct me if I am wrong) if you wanted to be 100% accurate, you would have to use an integral or something to figure out the best bomb sight setting, because once the bomb reaches 2K, it will start blowing in a different direction and at a different speed than it was when the bomb was at 5K. usually just using the numbers for the altitude you are at is good enough, but you won't be 100% accurate. (again I am pretty sure this is how this works, but someone can correct me if I am wrong.)

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I believe both Requiem and DerSherriff's videos on bomb sight usage say you should pick the wind for the closest altitude to the one you're flying at and use that, rather than trying to interpolate between two altitudes. That seems "technically incorrect" but according to them it's the right way to get the bomb sight accurate.

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The bombsight is very accurate but there are some operational limitations to take into account :

 

- Wind is the first major problem for people, and when dropping from an intermediate altitude (4000m for example), you have to do the math to figure out what the actual wind is at your altitude. This is a very sensitive setting, and being off by 1m/s in speed or 5° in direction have a significant influence on your point of impact. When you have to round numbers (true wind direction 63° left, for 6.7m/s, set as 65° left and 7m/s) you have your first source of inaccuracy. Add to this that usually, casual bomber pilots making some last minute left/right adjustment to aim for a specific building or ground target (or just because they are not in line with the objective altogether) forget to report this heading change on their wind rosace.

 

- Second is the 10 km/h increment of indicated airspeed. This one is even more critical because any difference between your speed input and your actual speed (even a single km/h) will shift your point of impact closer or further to your target. Moreover, airspeed is also computed to give you the wind correction, as drift with the same wind will be different if you are flying at 250km/h or 350km/h. So inaccuracy in airspeed will bring two different sources of deviation of your point of impact.

Additionally, when you split your bomb drop between two objectives that are maybe 10-15 seconds apart, due to the reduced weight the aircraft speed will creep up between the drops and the point of impact might shift off center on your second target.

 

- Third are the bombs themselves.

There is a little bit of dispersion in the drop, which is very visible with the smaller ones. Try some german 50kg from 6000m in a 0.1 or 0.25s interval and you will see that the explosion pattern on the ground is a bit random, not a perfectly straight line. You can add to this underwing pylons that will give you a lateral spread already wider than a truck backseat (A20, and Ju88 with outer wing pylons especially). Nothing you can do about this unfortunately.

The other factor is drag, because small bombs tends to lose more of their horizontal speed component than bigger ones. If for example you tune your bombsight to get a perfect pinpoint accuracy with 250kg bombs in a perfectly controlled setup (wind, airspeed, altitude...) you would find that 50kg bombs will fall a bit short, and 1000kg bombs will hit a bit too long of your target. The higher you drop from, the more pronounced these effects are. 

 

- Fourth is Altitude, firstly because you have only 100m of increments in altitude to work with, and secondly because the altimeter within the bomb sight gives you your altitude above mean sea level (unlike the cockpit altimeter wich gives you either height above the closest friendly airfield, or your flight level, aka altitude in standard atmosphere). So you would have to substract your target elevation to the altitude you read in the bombsight, providing you know it, which is often not the case. 

Hopefully in practice, the altitude reading is not the most critical of these parameters, and being off by 200m have less effect than being off by 2km/h. I tend to use it as an adjustment variable for speed inacurracy (If i'm too fast, I put a bit less of altitude, and vice versa) to have a higher hit probability. Altitude tweak can also help to compensate for bomb drag to some extent. 

 

So from all this, it is rather impossible to snipe tanks with 50kg bombs from 5000m. But you can get a surprisingly good building-size accuracy with some dedicated training for understanding how all these parameters are related to each other and how you can compensate for inaccuracies on one dial by altering another one.

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber
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Thanks F/JG300_Gruber

 

So bottom line, my dead center hits were more luck then skill....

 

I was just finding it a little odd that on multiple practice runs, when I thought I was doing everything exactly the same, I was getting drops that were not all in the same basic area.

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20 hours ago, WWSitttingDuck said:

Thanks F/JG300_Gruber

 

So bottom line, my dead center hits were more luck then skill....

 

I was just finding it a little odd that on multiple practice runs, when I thought I was doing everything exactly the same, I was getting drops that were not all in the same basic area.

 

Well, it also depends on what you are calling by "the same basic area" but if I do the same practice run over and over again, the impact point deviation will not exceed a ~10-15m diameter circle at 5000m. 

 

Having a bit of dispersion isn't that odd considering how accurate trained bomber crews were at the time. Being able to reliably take out a specific building from 5000m is already more than extremely optimistic. Back in the days they had to cope with a lot more difficulty like inaccurate instruments, IAS/TAS conversion tables, unknown/changing wind conditions, altimeter temperature errors, crude autopilots (no autolevel on german bombers...) and the bombsight itself with it's more or less precise calibration on the aircraft airframe.

Putting bombs on a Kremlin sized target was already being either very talented or lucky... 

 

The bombsight in the old IL2 1946 was as accurate as a modern GPS guidance system. That was a bit overdone for my taste (although still being a pleasure to use). 

 

Last minute advice, just in case : on german bombers, never, ever trust the auto release mechanism. The auto-tracking is bugged as ****, and will on some occasion randomly shift aim around for no reasons, even in still air. You can use it for initial target tracking and alignment for the bomb run, but once you get to about 5° of sight elevation above the release point (or any time the sight starts jerking around), always switch to manual mode and drop the bombs yourself. That way you can ensure that your bombs will hit as close as possible to where you want them to.

 

That may be another explanation to why your bombing results are inconsistent.

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber
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Joke thread?

The bomb sights ingame are WAY TOO Accurate and need to be majorly nerfed.
(well not nerfed but corrected to historical values of which there is data even the Norden bombsight was not this accurate with a 150m miss chance from only 3,000m
)
All i have been doing for the last 2 years is bombing in this game more than living a life lol..
(1,000 hours in LW bombers / Near 80,000 Ground kills or 1,600,000 tonnes of TNT)

I stopped using the bomb sight very early on because it is so arcadey and way too accurate more accurate than unguided bombs on a modern A-10 or B2 and so on.
i would rather eyeball a free drop from 2-3K in a steep dive or get down load and place the bombs personal on target at 100m.
(even if that means low level attacks in a 111 on all maps and not just Stalingrad where many he-111 where flown always under 500m straffing and the like)

You can literally with any wind config
Place 44 x 50kb bombs down the line of a runway from 8,000m While using Auto Turn as the bombs are falling they will always land within 5-10m of the Exact crosshair location
(starting at an angle to runway then as you drop last bombs you are coming out of a turn inline with runway) so a 1,000m string of 50kg bombs on a .5 second interval timer.
OR
Place 4 x 500kg on target while flying from the bombsight correctly setup without using auto level (like War thunder bombsight flying style)
OR
ALWAYS place a 1,000KG bomb with 5-10m of the crosshairs from 1-10,000 M Regardless of the wind or weather ( i  dont mean seeing through clouds, dont troll me)

If you cant do the above its just incorrect settings on a very very accurate bombsight

In the pic below from 10,000M you could hit the plane on runway everytime with 4 x 50kg bombs even while using Auto turn as you releasing as sights pass through target.
unless you use incorrect settings.
ip9hqr.jpg
_____________________________________________________

Keep in mind when in view mode if there is wind you MUST manual set the view angle wind correction the computer in bombsight only adjust the bombsight for wind not your view so when you switch they are different angles.

What i like to do now is not put in the wind data for any winds under 5m/s and less than 45* angle
to make the sights less accurate and more realistic or historical.

Keep in mind we should be missing factories randomly from 50-450m when dropping 6 x 250 from much over 2500m

As for grubers last question as it were i guess the lack of accuracy in LW bombing or inconsistancy could be from lack of acceleration info in the bombsight and many people might be still speeding up or slowing down as they release.



 

Edited by =TBAS=Sshadow14
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41 minutes ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

As for grubers last question as it were i guess the lack of accuracy in LW bombing or inconsistancy could be from lack of acceleration info in the bombsight and many people might be still speeding up or slowing down as they release.

 

Another valid point.

I'd say slowing down for the most part, I find people tend to open their bay doors way too late, and planes like the 88 can lose up to 20km/h in a minute while doing so.

 

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On 10/30/2018 at 7:12 AM, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

Joke thread?

The bomb sights ingame are WAY TOO Accurate and need to be majorly nerfed.
(well not nerfed but corrected to historical values of which there is data even the Norden bombsight was not this accurate with a 150m miss chance from only 3,000m
)
All i have been doing for the last 2 years is bombing in this game more than living a life lol..
(1,000 hours in LW bombers / Near 80,000 Ground kills or 1,600,000 tonnes of TNT)

I stopped using the bomb sight very early on because it is so arcadey and way too accurate more accurate than unguided bombs on a modern A-10 or B2 and so on.
i would rather eyeball a free drop from 2-3K in a steep dive or get down load and place the bombs personal on target at 100m.
(even if that means low level attacks in a 111 on all maps and not just Stalingrad where many he-111 where flown always under 500m straffing and the like)

You can literally with any wind config
Place 44 x 50kb bombs down the line of a runway from 8,000m While using Auto Turn as the bombs are falling they will always land within 5-10m of the Exact crosshair location
(starting at an angle to runway then as you drop last bombs you are coming out of a turn inline with runway) so a 1,000m string of 50kg bombs on a .5 second interval timer.
OR
Place 4 x 500kg on target while flying from the bombsight correctly setup without using auto level (like War thunder bombsight flying style)
OR
ALWAYS place a 1,000KG bomb with 5-10m of the crosshairs from 1-10,000 M Regardless of the wind or weather ( i  dont mean seeing through clouds, dont troll me)

If you cant do the above its just incorrect settings on a very very accurate bombsight

In the pic below from 10,000M you could hit the plane on runway everytime with 4 x 50kg bombs even while using Auto turn as you releasing as sights pass through target.
unless you use incorrect settings.
ip9hqr.jpg
_____________________________________________________

Keep in mind when in view mode if there is wind you MUST manual set the view angle wind correction the computer in bombsight only adjust the bombsight for wind not your view so when you switch they are different angles.

What i like to do now is not put in the wind data for any winds under 5m/s and less than 45* angle
to make the sights less accurate and more realistic or historical.

Keep in mind we should be missing factories randomly from 50-450m when dropping 6 x 250 from much over 2500m

As for grubers last question as it were i guess the lack of accuracy in LW bombing or inconsistancy could be from lack of acceleration info in the bombsight and many people might be still speeding up or slowing down as they release.



 

You too this thread too seriously if it was a joke BOAH

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sorry i dont understand?

did you mean my post was a lot of work?
no like 1-2 minutes typing.
pic is old.
points are valid.

 

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9 hours ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

sorry i dont understand?

did you mean my post was a lot of work?
no like 1-2 minutes typing.
pic is old.
points are valid.

 

Na, just meant the post was lengthy. Good points tho.

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