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Dakpilot

9600K best option?

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I am tentatively looking at upgrading, my 3570K has done tremendously well and still actually performs great.

 

However right now I have the possibility for some spend!!

 

In the real world (and for the foreseeable future)  is there really any benefit in going above i5 9600K I don't do many things that would benefit from 8/16 threads from the 9900K and it will be a long time before IL-2 benefits from having more than 6 (fast)cores, I understand that the 9600K is just a 9700K with 2 cores disabled, and as for overclocking, I am guessing it is easier to keeps temps under control with 6 vs 8 cores of the i7, and as I live in a very high ambient temp region this is a consideration.

 

I will be very very unlikely to be using VR this generation (using 4K normal screen) and do not do content creation type tasks so am thinking the benefits of the more expensive 9th gen chips will be redundant and the cost saving (considerable ) will be better used on higher quality MB/cooling/PSU for a solid 24/7 5.00ghz +

 

I will be continuing on with my GTX1080 also for now, and building in a rather (VERY) huge Thermaltake core X5 case I recently got

 

every way I have looked at it the 9600K looks more sensible for my uses..am I missing something?

 

I don't mind spending money..but I hate wasting it when I can use it more wisely as I do not have unlimited budget

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

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1 hour ago, Dakpilot said:

I understand that the 9600K is just a 9700K with 2 cores disabled

No, it is a 9700K with Hyperthreading disabled, something that OpenBSD (now) disables on the OS side as it can be a security liability and that gives you no real advantage for this game. Besides, without HT, you can usually OC the cores a bit more, as they draw less power to feed that extra piece of silicon.

 

There has been a thread about benchmarking the various CPU's and I would recommen that you are looking mainly on the availability and the total cost of the entire platform. The performance gap between what you can do with the 9600K and the 8700K, the 9900K etc for our purposes is very small. As you might want to match this new CPU with a new mainboard and a new set of DRAM to make best use of it, look at this total cost and see what you can get for your budget.

 

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I overbuildt mine with a lot of SSD discs , mainly because I am more into DCS and such . Even in DCS I think your 9600 would do great. I did take a 1080TI and hoped that would be enough for next gen VR, but it probably won't . Anyway, This game will do great with it, DCS demand more RAM 16 and some recommend 32, I guess it is what you think you would fly that matters.

SSD disk is a good thing , loading time have decreased a lot. You might consider one

Edited by LuseKofte

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9 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

You might consider one

Unless for cold storage, there is really no reason anymore going for spinning disks.

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If you could get the processor, 16GB of RAM or more (preferably 3000MHz+), SSD and cooling system, i think that will be a really nice rig for now e future!

I believe that 8600k has a better price/performance.

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Thanks for comments!

 

my next build will have Samsung 970 evo 250GB nvme for boot/Win + IL-2 and re-use my older Samsung evo 840 ssd's for storage this will most likely cover all my needs and give as good real world performance in gaming as possible without overspending

 

Having done a bit more research am certain that 9th gen Intel are as follows

 

9900K = 8 core 16 threads with H/T

9700K = 8 core   8 threads no H/T

9600K = 6 core   6 threads no H/T

 

In my part of the world  a 9900K cost almost double that of the 9600K and for me is just too expensive to justify considering small returns in IL-2 on normal (4K) screen

 

I am guessing that it would be upgrade time again before IL-2 will make use of 8 core over 6 cores so the win goes to the cheaper 9600K which as I understand is identical architecture to 9700K so would overclock the same IPC (maybe better due to less heat)

 

As an aside the 9 series are soldered rather than using paste so supposedly have better thermals than 8700k and 8600k but have a thicker chip which apparently is less  efficient at conducting so although overall better they still run hot even though soldered..another real world win for the 6 core 9600K which should be easier to cool at 5-5.2ghz

 

In my use and needs the cheaper 9600K is (seems) the better option Yay!

 

Proposed build (list) so far

 

CPU = 9600K  -- reasons given above..cooler than other options with same real world (IL-2 and my use) performance for near/long term future at best cost

 

MB =  Asus ROG Hero XI wifi --- highest quality/cost/feature/value set, spent long time looking at all Z390's and this one meets my needs/value (some others are a little cheaper but all miss some feature or two)

 

RAM  = GSkill 16GB 3200 8 x 2 Trident --- run GSkill flawlessly in previous build for many years, these are cheapest available in my part of the world

 

Storage/Boot = Samsung 970 EVO NVMe --- never had problems with Samsung SSD before unlike other makes, best value/real world performance

 

Cooling = Antec M360mm RGB AIO water cooler------- best performance/noise/cost ratio, 1/2 the price of similar corsair version

 

PSU = Superflower 750W platinum full modular (white) ---- semi passive (silent when not under load) OEM supplier to EVGA and highly rated at very good price

 

Case = Thermaltake Core X5 tempered glass edition ---already bought-- Huge! can take 5 360mm radiators if you wanted, and MB is horizontal which I prefer

 

GPU = Galax GTX1080 EXOC SNPr white --already have--- used Galax 970 for years was very happy, very good price in my area compared to all others

 

feel free to comment /rip apart 😎

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

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It make sense and  are in no means a inferior rig , absolutely enough to run Great Battles, even in VR , 

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The important thing for IL-2 is CPU with great single-thread (or single-core) performance. The more OC the more single-thread performance.

Some of the public benchmark have started to report the test of the users.

 

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/ (sort them by S-Core Pts)

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html  (this results are a bit misleading since it is an average of all reported test, regardeless of the CPU freq)

 

So we need to look at two things here:

- For the same OC freq what is the single-core performance achieved

- How well your CPU overclock for a given non-extreme voltage (ie 1.3V)

Edited by chiliwili69
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Excellent future build components Dakpilot. Impressive that you researched the power supply so well. Superflower sets the standard  for psu builds and the psu is pretty much the heart of the system. A weak or inefficient psu will cause so many problems.

Please post when you have this completed, it would be interesting to hear how you like this compared to your current build.

Cheers --S--  

  

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:good:

 

Looks pretty darn good to me!

 

And yes, would certainly be VR ready should you decide you want to enter the "Dark Side"...

;)

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Small update, 

 

If I change the MB to a cheaper MSI Gaming Edge AC, I can get an i7 9700K for the same budget instead of the i5 9600k Asus Rog XI hero combo.... 

 

Balance with a system is always key but my heart says go for the 9700k lol, but will the extra two cores make any real world difference in my use? and I would be better off with a higher quality MB and potentially cooler and more stable 24/7 O/C with the i5 for the same cost.. Although cooling should not be an issue with 360 Aio and decent case airflow with room for almost umlimited fans.. My head says go with the better MB but the MSI board does have 99% of the features I need, just maybe later I will regret it? 

 

Mid/low range board and 9700k or high/mid board and 9600k? 

 

Or (heresy!) save some money and go MSI + i5? 

 

*Edit*

Now i see some new stock of i7 8086K is coming cheaper than 9700K just to confuse the issue ... 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

Edited by Dakpilot

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Well imho just for IL-2, at least in it's current iteration, that 9600k would probably be just great for you. Don't know if you do much other gaming, or do any other computer tasks that might make better use of the additional cores and/or hyperthreading. So if your main focus is only on IL-2, doubt you would go wrong with this cpu and the better motherboard.

 

Now that is not to say, depending how long you keep the system ( I tend to keep for around 5 years), 1CGS will not make changes to how the game utilizes the tech of the newer cpu's. Course you could always upgrade just the cpu at that time if they do.

 

I am of the other end, I get the best CPU and MB I can at the time for what I want when  I do a new build. Probably needlessly spending money, but that is just me, and I am fortunate in that at least currently I can do so. Figure I should take advantage of that while I can lol. If I were on a tighter budget, I would seriously consider the 9600k.

 

Nice thing about the i9 cpu's versus say the 8700k or 8086k, is the soldered CPU/TIM. No more de-lidding to get cooler core temps. Have not seem much

reports yet though on the newer i9's as far as temps go. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by dburne
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For the foreseeable future I will continue with my 49" LG 4K.

 

Having read multiple reviews things are not much clearer... But a tiny bit

 

I (think) I will be better off with 9600K and higher end MB, it will be easier to cool and likely to run 5.2 ghz 24/7, IL-2 (and most games) is unlikely to be restricted by high speed six core during the (5 year ish predicted life of my rig) even if IL-2 gets a multithread/graphics API update during the rig life.. And there is an upgrade path to a second hand 9900K in future..and a better MB will help with that. 

 

Thank to all for the comments 

 

May post some pics of the build if peeps are interested 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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9 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

For the foreseeable future I will continue with my 49" LG 4K.

 

Having read multiple reviews things are not much clearer... But a tiny bit

 

I (think) I will be better off with 9600K and higher end MB, it will be easier to cool and likely to run 5.2 ghz 24/7, IL-2 (and most games) is unlikely to be restricted by high speed six core during the (5 year ish predicted life of my rig) even if IL-2 gets a multithread/graphics API update during the rig life.. And there is an upgrade path to a second hand 9900K in future..and a better MB will help with that. 

 

Thank to all for the comments 

 

May post some pics of the build if peeps are interested 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

Always!

I look forward to seeing it when you have it together.

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OK, will do some, it should be an interesting build compared to what I have done before.. Always mini ITX. 

 

It seems that front mounted rad pulling coolest air is best for CPU and I will put a 360mm there. Two 200mm exhaust on the top, slow running and nice and quiet, 3 120mm intakes on the bottom alongside the Psu intake for good measure and a quiet 140 exhaust at the back just because I have one around 😎most of the stuff has RGB which I detest, but maybe just for kicks I can set up some nice (subtle!) white lighting effect to complement the white Psu and white GPU and white fans that I already have, a mainly black (and white) theme should look nice against the red wall where it will sit (# sad) LOL 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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I'm late to this topic but I'd say a 9600K (6-core) with a good motherboard that supports good overclocking is likely your best bet here. You want good power delivery on the mobo, look for 10 (or more) phase power delivery.

 

If you're unlikely to ever use this rig for VR then a 9600K is overkill and you could save some cash by going with an 8000-series chip. But it looks from your post like you might eventually want to do VR, which for IL2 means best single threaded performance you can get.

 

You should also get fast memory, IL2 likes that a lot. In a recent thread someone found 3200Mhz CAS-14 RAM for a good price, which runs about the same latency as 3600Mhz CAS-16. I see you are looking at 3200 RAM already, please check the CAS also. It's worth it to pay an extra $20 to get CAS-14 (I didn't know this when I built my rig and now I wish I had the faster CAS-14 instead of slower CAS-16).

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CAS 14 is available in 3200 Mhz 16 x 2 but comes at an 84 USD premium over the CAS 16 version. In my part of the world that is a weeks salary for most. I find it hard to justify that much more for what would probably/possibly be a very small real world gain... 20 or so USD more I would go for it.. if I could find it 😎

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

Edited by Dakpilot

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Parts have arrived 😎

 

9600K 

MSI gaming Edge AC 

Superflower White 750 platinum psu

970 evo nvme 250gb

G. Skill 16gb 3200 CAS 14 GTRZ

Corsair H150i Pro 

 

And some other stuff 

 

Time to start reading up and slapping together 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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34 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

Parts have arrived 😎

 

9600K 

MSI gaming Edge AC 

Superflower White 750 platinum psu

970 evo nvme 250gb

G. Skill 16gb 3200 CAS 14 GTRZ

Corsair H150i Pro 

 

And some other stuff 

 

Time to start reading up and slapping together 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

:good:

 

Congrats!

I am envious, still waiting on the motherboard I want to be released.

Have most other parts ready to go, with exception of Ram.

 

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_20190127_153229.thumb.JPG.4b6553437a8c68087bad899e0e8a81d6.JPG

 

First dry run assembly, 3 x 120mm mag lev fans on floor as intake, 230mm fan top intake, 360mm H150i front intake and 140mm  mag lev rear exhaust, the intent is to have all fans rpm controlled for balanced airflow, leaning to positive pressure, with (hopefully) quietness 😁

The case is a bit of a monster and I nearly had an issue with the aio cooler pipes not being long enough.. But it all worked out with millimetres to spare, got sidetracked with RL so have not progressed as fast as I had liked... 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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Everytime I see such topic I roll my eyes. IL2 GB isnt a demanding game....newer i5 with 4Ghz, 8 GB DDR4 RAM and 1060/1070 will run this game on ultra smoothly up to 1444p for sure. Ofcourse ssd hdd is a must and its cheap now. That is if one isnt using VR. Heck I was running this game on G4560 and 1060 3GB, ssd. 8GB RAM, locked FPS to 60 with just slightly reduced video settings (without SSAO, 4X distance etc)...

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33 minutes ago, blackram said:

Everytime I see such topic I roll my eyes. IL2 GB isnt a demanding game....newer i5 with 4Ghz, 8 GB DDR4 RAM and 1060/1070 will run this game on ultra smoothly up to 1444p for sure. Ofcourse ssd hdd is a must and its cheap now. That is if one isnt using VR. Heck I was running this game on G4560 and 1060 3GB, ssd. 8GB RAM, locked FPS to 60 with just slightly reduced video settings (without SSAO, 4X distance etc)...

 

My previous i5  @ 4.4ghz  computer struggled often in high density situations, and I definitely saw an improvement when upgraded from GTX970 to GTX 1080 with 4k, a 1080ti would have been better but the 1080 was the better bang for buck. you can "roll your eyes" if you like but this 9600k new build is probably the most budget friendly I can get away with for satisfying performance/visuals on 4K large (lower pixel density) screen, which if you read the thread, is what this comp is for

 

Sometimes I wonder why I ever share anything on this forum 😀

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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5 hours ago, Dakpilot said:

 

My previous i5  @ 4.4ghz  computer struggled often in high density situations, and I definitely saw an improvement when upgraded from GTX970 to GTX 1080 with 4k, a 1080ti would have been better but the 1080 was the better bang for buck. you can "roll your eyes" if you like but this 9600k new build is probably the most budget friendly I can get away with for satisfying performance/visuals on 4K large (lower pixel density) screen, which if you read the thread, is what this comp is for

 

Sometimes I wonder why I ever share anything on this forum 😀

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

Dak, wasnt my attention to be rude or bash you.

Your previous CPU was more than enough for IL2, the GPU is what is struggling with resolutions (pixels). 4K is another story and for sure you need as strong GPU you can afford. Also there are other games around which are more demanding like DCS etc.

Sry again if I upset you, wasnt my intention.

Edited by blackram
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Nice system mate..
congratulations its not lit up with RBG everywhere :D


Also aint VR equal to running 2 Monitors at 4K when you using SS in VR Settings.
So thats a huge load.

 

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Oh I think it will 'RGB' with the best (worst) of them.. Even the ram sticks are rgb, the only CAS 14 ones that were available locally, also the extra mag lev(for quietness) 120mm fans available were rgb lol, at least it can be turned off! I do prefer understated but rgb does seem to be popular nevertheless. 

I am intrigued what it will all look like when it is finished 😀

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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On 1/27/2019 at 2:27 PM, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

Also aint VR equal to running 2 Monitors at 4K when you using SS in VR Settings.
So thats a huge load.

 

It depends. If you use no supersample on an Oculus Rift, it's about the same number of pixels as a 1440p display, but you need to hit 90 FPS instead of the more usual 60. Most people like a bit of super sampling which will increase the load from there. In our experience a GTX 1080 will do fine for IL2 in VR, but I wouldn't really call that a 4K gaming card.

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