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Mmaruda

I am uterly terrible in flying the IL-2, please help me improve?

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As in the topic, I have been trying do fly this crate for some time now, I am nearly at the end of the Sea Dragons campaign, but my results are appalling. Sure, take off, fly formation, navigate land, all that stuff is easy, hell, even avoiding fighters isn't a big deal, but attacking ground targets? I can't seem to hit anything unless I am using guns. I do a pretty good job of dropping 250s from a Peshka, but the Sturmovik? I miss all my bombs and rockets. Hell, rockets I don't even try anymore, it's pointless.

 

This leads me to the conclusions, that I don't know squat about dive bombing and rockets strafing, because it sure as hell isn't my dedication and lack of practice - I am totally awesome when it comes to repeatedly banging my head against the wall, but this ain't Dark Souls, you won't just make it on the 30th try.

 

My dudes, please help. What is the secret sauce?

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Bombs - Set your bomb timer to 5 seconds, line up the belly with a 100, do a shallow dive from 2000m, pull up and release when he's right under your nose. You'll be blow/treetop level but that's what makes the IL-2 such an adrenaline rush to fly and you won't miss. 

Rockets - Single fire is tricky, so start with firing in pairs (one from each wing). Start from 2000m, dive almost straight down on a tank and release your rockets from a steep angle right on top of them. I found this to be 110% more effective than trying to broadside it from a 45 degree angle. 

 

Turn this image on it's side, I'm talking about a 20-50 degree slope.

Edited by Y-29.Silky

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Rockets shouldn't be launched singly - they aren't designed for that sort of accuracy. 

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Take comfort in the knowledge that your frustrations are probably the same as those experienced by actual attack pilots. The hit rate for rockets on armored vehicles, even under ideal conditions on the training ranges, was actually quite low, and much worse in combat. Rocket ballistics sucked and glide bombing had a large margin of error to it - which is why dive bombing was invented. If you're almost straight down there's less guess work. The Il-2 isn't meant to dive bomb however. 

the inaccuracy of the attack methods is compounded by the small size of the rocket's warheads (smaller than the ones used by the western allies, I believe) and the small size of the bombs. FAB-50s just about need a direct hit to kill a tank, and even FAB-100s are only about as big as the smallest bomb the western allies generally carried on their fighter/bombers. 

I'll second Y-29s advice regarding bombs and rockets. Broadsiding tanks with rockets is tricky. Part of it is the rocket convergence is farther out, so if you aim with the crosshairs the rockets will often go on either side of the tank if you shoot when too close, and if you shoot when too far away the same thing happens. If I'm using rockets I usually just launch the whole payload at a single armored target. So I'll do one run with bombs, one run with rockets, and then use guns on soft targets. IIRC this is how the Il-2 pilots generally structured their attacks from the mid-war onwards. 

As you get better, you can try and work up to one-shot one kill with rocket salvos if you desire. I was able to do this in Il-2 1946 but this sim is much more challenging IMO for ground attack, so don't be discouraged if you can't do it.

There are several rocket attack tutorial videos on youtube that have tricks on how to be more precise in your aim. Review those, and practice a lot in the QMB. 

 

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Well I set my rockets to salvo fire anyway, same with smaller bombs and by smaller I mean anything below something as fat as my ex. In any case, one that thing strikes me is ya'll talk that 2000m stuff. That is fine,  even-though this crate climbs like a lazy hippo, but for example, in the Sea Dragons campaign most missions tell me to fly at like 600m.

 

Now with a Peshka, I do about 1k then dive at high speed at about 30-40 degrees and drop as soon as the target goes below the reticle - this provides like 90% accuracy, at least with something that's got a lot of umpf. That shit don't work with the IL-2 though.

 

So basically, ya'll sayin' I should go high and be nearly vertical when I let loose? Is there any specific speed I should keep to, any specific altitude to drop them presents?

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I'll put this in all in layman's term. I've found the best thing is to take your time. Clear your day so you're not worried about anything. Don't feel afraid to have your missions take 40+ mins. 

Don't kick you're self if you have to do a second pass. If anything looks risky, 9 times out of 10 it's probably too risky. Take your time when you line up and keep momentum in mind. The more steep the angle of attack + the faster you are - the less you have to compensate for gravity, even with rockets. 

 

The best practice that helped me the most was coming at a target at a near 90-85 deg dive (Probably over exaggerated) starting high above the target - coming at near top speed and slamming onto the targets at the last possible moment that I felt comfortable with pulling up. After I got used to doing those kinds of attacks. I worked my way down the AOA, as I got more used to the feel for the drag of the bombs. Thus became more accurate.  

But boy I did hate getting used to the wing mounted bombs...

Edited by TexasWarbird

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I remember reading in an interview of an IL-2 pilot where he said that the rockets were mostly used against areas, rather than individual targets.

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12 minutes ago, Mmaruda said:

Well I set my rockets to salvo fire anyway, same with smaller bombs and by smaller I mean anything below something as fat as my ex. In any case, one that thing strikes me is ya'll talk that 2000m stuff. That is fine,  even-though this crate climbs like a lazy hippo, but for example, in the Sea Dragons campaign most missions tell me to fly at like 600m.

 

Now with a Peshka, I do about 1k then dive at high speed at about 30-40 degrees and drop as soon as the target goes below the reticle - this provides like 90% accuracy, at least with something that's got a lot of umpf. That shit don't work with the IL-2 though.

 

So basically, ya'll sayin' I should go high and be nearly vertical when I let loose? Is there any specific speed I should keep to, any specific altitude to drop them presents?

A steeper dive will be more accurate, yes. The steeper your attack angle, the less difference there is between your bomb's trajectory. You should be able to do the same attack profile in an Il-2 as in a Peshka. The 30 degree dive is a pretty standard glide bombing angle to shoot for, but I like to go steeper.

The impact point of your bombs are going to be heavily dependent on speed when glide bombing. the faster you go, the closer to the reticle your aim point will be. The exact speed doesn't matter too much, but making it be the same speed every time will help with consistency. The things that will determine where your bomb hits is your aim point (position of target relative to nose) your glide angle and your speed. Variation in any of these throws off the whole equation. If you always release when the target goes beneath your nose, but sometimes you're at 45 degrees and others at 20, or sometimes 100km/h faster, you'll miss.

What I did to practice bombing in the Il-2 in the old game was record tracks as I made attacks on undefended targets, then replay them and watch my release point and where the bomb impacted, in cockpit and external views. Watch it in slow motion afterwards.

Try mock attacks from different altitudes, starting at a consistent level speed. Any kind of attack from less than a 1000 m is either going to have to be pretty shallow (and thus more difficult to aim) or you'll have very little time to get lined up. 

The final thing to remember is to make sure you are coordinated when you release your bomb. If you are yawing (and I find the Il-2 yaws quite a bit in a dive IMO) then your nose is pointing in a different direction than the aircraft is travelling, and your aim point will be wrong. With a bigger bomb it won't matter as much if you miss to either side, with the smaller ones it matters a great deal.

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10 minutes ago, hellmincer said:

I remember reading in an interview of an IL-2 pilot where he said that the rockets were mostly used against areas, rather than individual targets.

 

Yes, that is true. Even the Americans felt this way about them - in one manual, they are described as being like a mortar barrage. The more you fire in one go, the more likely you are to hit the target. 

 

As for myself, I use the "series of 4" setting with the Il-2s, as that will give me two shots with the rockets (except for the M43). Next run is with bombs, and then a final run with cannons and MGs. 

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After reading all this I am thankful that Germans do not even have rockets for their ground attackers such as HS-129 and JU-87, because it seems small-caliber rockets are only cost-effective against buildings or concentrated lightly armored targets (area effect attacks). This accurately simulates IL-2 which historically was highly overrated and mostly propaganda-weapon with its weak rockets until PTABs became available in 1943. Personally, if I was flying IL-2 I would avoid using rockets and bombs against armor and only use them when they pack the biggest punch (ie. against static defences/buildings and ships or maybe trains). Most of the ground-attack work should be done using guns anyway: I don not know about IL-2 cannon capabilities, but when flying HS-129 only KV1 is invincible to its Mk 103 autocannon. 

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If you use a 5 second bomb delay you can do short drop bombing in an IL 2 or any other Soviet plane. The timer being that long bypasses the safety systems on the bombs so they will arm. This means you could, if you wanted to, fly right over the top of your target and drop the bomb so it hits it right in the side, obviously the bigger the target the easier it will be to hit. Due to your lateral velocity you can also drop the bomb a bit early and it will skip and bounce a bit and come to rest near the target; with a little luck it will come to a stop right next to the target. One thing that can help is having someone observe the bomb drop for you, that you way know if you are dropping too early or too late. I suppose a recorded track would work for single player.

 

For rockets, well rockets are a little different. I like to shoot the rockets from really close. Like stupidly close. I fly through the debris cloud close. This is the only way I've found to make single fire rockets from an IL 2 viable. I prefer the ROS 132 rockets for everything, the little tiny rockets you can put on Yaks and stuff are generally useless unless you are hitting soft targets or infantry and the ORFS 82 rockets require a direct hit to kill a tank with their shaped charge and that is hard. The 132's fly true enough at less than 150 m range and the hit hard enough to kill most things in one shot. If you get real close you can aim the rockets with the first hash-mark from the center left or right depending on the wing that will fire, starting from the left wing. This is anachronistic, of course, but effective.

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We very seldom go up anywhere near 2,000m in our Il-2s. Our mode of ingress and exit is down low, and I mean low - beneath the height of the trees where possible. We only pop up to about 500m as the target area is reached, then shallow dive in from there. Harder to navigate to the target and less time to aim but great fun. Five-second bomb delay (do not follow anyone across the target!) and rockets, well they're just hit and miss as you have learned. I have taken tanks out with single rockets, and equally I've missed totally with salvos of four and eight.

The other most important points about the Il-2 is that all trees belong to the Luftwaffe!. Never met a friendly one yet. Cheers.

 

Edit: as Disarray says above - get in real close with rockets. I like to be skimming the ground, i.e. flying horizontal, as well if I'm attacking that way. Then you only have to pop up a few feet above the target and trees instead of a gut-wrenching dive pull-out.

Edited by 216th_Cat

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When I bomb with the IL2, I only use low level, flat angle approaches. Basically, my approach does not differ alot whether I am using guns, rockets or bombs. Rockets have to be lobbed a bit. The way I figured it out for me was learning to tack a specific target size to a bar below on the crosshair (I can not run the game right now so I cannot show examples but I think you get the idea). Just find that one solution where you know that your rockets land on target and stick to it once you found it, try not to count bars on the crosshair for different distances.

 

For the bombs: As many said, 5 sec timer minimum else you only get duds. What helped me get a good level of accuracy: Imagine there is a laser pointer attached to the belly of your plane, pointing out into infinity. Your goal is to point it at your target and fly at it in such a way that it stays on target (minimum lateral movement of the target in view). Since it is mounted at the belly of your plane, you cannot use the center of your crosshair of course. Instead, I use two bars below the circle and initiate my approach with that. As you approach, your goal is to keep the target from slipping from that point. Once you are really close, it will start disappearing under your nose. Release your bomb at that moment and pull up to avoid smacking into the ground. If you kept the approach nice and stable and judged the height well, you will smack the bomb pretty much into the target.

 

It is all about figuring how to aim with your whole plane rather than just your crosshair (alot of people coming from guns only struggle with this and are very crosshair fixated). A lot hinges on your ability to judge the movement of your plane as a whole  and being able to fly coordinated and consistent (aka, center the ball).

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About rockets in antitank role - you can use them in single fire mode to deadly effect (direct hit), you just have to know how. Using them in pairs is a waste, since they don't have a convergence (close enough to count anyway).

 

Before attacking, make sure they are set to "single" (should be by default). Then the only thing you'll have to remember is which wing the next rocket will come from. First one always comes from the left one. 

 

Aim as follows: Make shallow approach, put an imaginary rectangle around the tank with your eyes, aim at the top left/right edge vertex (depending on which wing the next missile is coming from). Fire when tank stretches 3 to 4 ticks from the center (see screenshot below - beware: that's insanely close), pull up immediately after launch (or you'll crash into your game) - overcome the temptation and don't observe your hit before pulling up!!

The whole idea as you can see, is to make the target big enough that the rocket dispersion doesn't matter anymore.

 

Follow this, and with a bit of training you'll have a guaranteed hit per rocket. After some practice you'll be grumpy for not taking out 8 tanks with 8 rockets (ROFS 132). :)

 

1. Lining up:

141598576_IL-2tank00.png.5d66f408ab5751b845cf71f15b470166.png

 

850370368_IL-2tank01.png.ea014cd2209638600c33c6a7b6780ed6.png

 

2. Launch (and immediate pull up!)

1123233548_IL-2tank03.thumb.png.8e1f52ca3c2a3ea48d6dc67aebd86a94.png

 

3. Hit

1643726481_IL-2tank04.thumb.png.6d8fcc04d39055bf9429548fe53bf10e.png

 

4. Flying victoriously  through the debris :)

356522551_IL-2tank05.png.71f4a7e5baa74eddaba5974cef8b0e2a.png

 

 

Luckily turrets are not blown up into the air from the tanks - or crashing into one would present the single biggest danger in such an attack.

Edited by CrazyDuck
  • Upvote 8

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6 hours ago, Mmaruda said:

As in the topic, I have been trying do fly this crate for some time now, I am nearly at the end of the Sea Dragons campaign, but my results are appalling. Sure, take off, fly formation, navigate land, all that stuff is easy, hell, even avoiding fighters isn't a big deal, but attacking ground targets? I can't seem to hit anything unless I am using guns. I do a pretty good job of dropping 250s from a Peshka, but the Sturmovik? I miss all my bombs and rockets. Hell, rockets I don't even try anymore, it's pointless.

 

This leads me to the conclusions, that I don't know squat about dive bombing and rockets strafing, because it sure as hell isn't my dedication and lack of practice - I am totally awesome when it comes to repeatedly banging my head against the wall, but this ain't Dark Souls, you won't just make it on the 30th try.

 

My dudes, please help. What is the secret sauce?

I used the aim assist options to help me get used to the bombs and rockets.  Then I took away the training wheels until I got comfortable doing it.  Helped me a ton.  A video by etherlight? called il2 rocket science helped me step up my tank killing as well.  Also in dark souls and IL2 I've found doing the same thing over and over usually yeilds similar results, try changing it up.  Something that could help is practice using 50kgs on the hs129 if you have it using the bomb (iron) sight but your also going 100kph slower.  That speed difference is also probably why you can bomb in pe2 and not il2.  The 50kgs are difficult bombs to employ unless they're on a 109's rack. It usually takes me all 6 to get a tank or two if I'm lucky in an il2.  Practice makes perfect.  Good luck. 

 

 

Edited by 69TD_Joeasyrida

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