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Multiplayer current state of play.... Time to refocus on Single player?

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There are currently during prime time UK  less than 50 players online across all of the active servers. Whilst this is tragic it is well known that the Single Player community is approximately 4 times larger than multiplayer. 

 

Is it time to change the focus to Single Player and where the bulk of the market now lies? 

 

 

2018-10-17_21.22.49.jpg

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Apparently TF is going to improve the AI, so I’d say that SP is getting more focus now.

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22 hours ago, Pb_Cybermat47 said:

Apparently TF is going to improve the AI, so I’d say that SP is getting more focus now.

 

 

This is the most hilarous thing I've read in quite time.

TF dev team has never made any improvement on A.I. till now in - 3 -three- years: so where do you find all this  certainty m8?.. in TF official announces? do you really still they are credible?. Me, no, after all false proclames I've always read. Just new planes and map and little graphic Fx they are capable to produce, this is a consolidate fact.

Edited by EAF_51_FOX

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3 hours ago, EAF_51_FOX said:

 

 

 

This is the most hilarous thing I've read in quite time.

TF dev team has never made any improvement on A.I. till now in - 3 -three- years: so where do you find all this  certainty m8?.. in TF official announces? do you really still they are credible?. Me, no, after all false proclames I've always read. Just new planes and map and little graphic Fx they are capable to produce, this is a consolidate fact.

Your post is incredibly rude and uninformed.

On 9/28/2018 at 8:32 PM, Buzzsaw said:

We are working on the improvement of the AI behaviour for TF 5.0.

 

Some of the issues were a function of mission building... AI need a lot of direction and hands on in the programming of their behaviour.

From what I have read, one of the Team Dialdos AI programmers is working with TF to try and improve the AI in Blitz. Hopefully this will be successful  but only time will tell.  This information was released quite a few months ago.

 

S!Blade<><

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9 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

 

Your post is incredibly rude and uninformed.

From what I have read, one of the Team Dialdos AI programmers is working with TF to try and improve the AI in Blitz. Hopefully this will be successful  but only time will tell.  This information was released quite a few months ago.

 

S!Blade<><

 

mr. BladeMeister, I think I'm quite well informed about TF team and what they've done ( ..and what never done..) on Cliff Of Dover game because I follow their forum here and the original one till d1 ...just for your information... And also where you found my post is rude?.Do you find insult words in my post m8?. So please keep this in mind next time before accuse someone of something invented totally  by your mind . cheers.

Edited by EAF_51_FOX

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No, BladeMeister is right.  As a general rule, your posts are rude and uninformed.

 

  It's uncertain whether this is a language thing or the EAF are now scraping the barrel.....

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I remain biased that there are people that can't afford a discussion w/o refuging in personal attacks also without any good reason just because they can't simply accept  that their opinon is opposite than others. Nothing more to debate here, future fact will tell who was right.

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2 hours ago, EAF_51_FOX said:

I remain biased that there are people that can't afford a discussion w/o refuging in personal attacks also without any good reason just because they can't simply accept  that their opinon is opposite than others. Nothing more to debate here, future fact will tell who was right.

"Just For Your Information"
 
Ok, I spent about 20 minutes over at Atag Forums and came up with these specific posts concerning the AI being looked at. I spend very little time reading their Forum anymore, but it is obvious that you DO NOT keep up with the ATAG Forum and that you are uninformed and merely writing your post out of ignorance and opinion. I colored all of the relevant reading in "RED" so that you will not miss it this time. Each post is dated and can be found on ATAG Forums  and I put it in the spoiler below so be sure to click on it and read it so from that point forward you will be informed and hopefully no longer show ignorance in your future posts. You may still be rude, but at least you will be well informed and up to date on what " IS" being worked on in CLOD 5.0. Whether this will make CLOD SP AI any better remains to be seen, but at least they are acknowledging that the AI needs reworking and have brought in someone with experience in the AI programming field and they are putting in the effort and trying to make it better. What more can we ask? For the record, I did not personally attack you, your first post was just plain "RUDE" and "Uninformed" and there was no consolidated fact in your post, only your opinion, and this post proves it.
 
S!Blade<><

 
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TFS Comprehensive Update Thread for TF 5.0 Tobruk

We are starting this thread which will serve as the main thread for information about 5.0/Tobruk. It will be closed but we will start separate threads for everyone to comment on. We will update this thread with new info, material, and screenshots/videos when we have them. I'm hopeful we can have bi-weekly updates for the next couple of months showcasing both new and old material, especially on the map and new aircraft. This way we will have a single area where people can go to to get info on 5.0/Tobruk. We will bump the thread when new material is added, along with a link to a newly created thread for everyone to comment on.

With that said, now we can really move on to the update.

OnAircraftLanded and OnAircraftCrashLanded events are not called any more in multiplayer. We've been aware of this issue and the crippling effect it has on certain servers and have been working hard on finding a fix. We have found the cause of this issue and are making great progress with it and are close to having it corrected. It is still in testing but things are looking promising. We hope to have this ready shortly.

Also some great news on the SP front. The AI behavior and routines are actively being revised and we hope to start Beta testing these soon. These are in great hands who did excellent work on the AI in Il-2 1946.
 
 
 
 
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TFS Developer Update - July 2018

 
  • AI
 
A code study/analysis of the AI behaviour modelling has been undertaken with the aim of understanding what needs to be changed and how. This has focussed on offensive and defensive manoeuvres, the command system, detection and gunnery. It is considered that improvements can be made in all areas. Work continues but here is an extract of the report:

ANALYSIS

AI Gunners

Easiest thing to fix. Mostly isolated from the other things regarding AI so changes we make here
will not affect anything else.

We can play with parameters until we find good balance between difficulty and fun.

AI Fighters shooting

Fighter planes don't shot effectively in dogfights. This is combination of two problems. First one is
selection of correct aiming point. That one is easier to correct and it can be considered solved.
Second part of the problem is getting the plane pointed at correct aiming point. With this one I'm
not satisfied yet. In some situations and with some planes shooting is acceptable. Hit percentages
are good and everything seems to be fine. But there are some annoying occurrences of visibly bad
shooting.

Things like that are annoying for players because AI looks like complete idiot who can't do simple
correction of the aim. This is related to the way AI controls the plane but this is tricky to do correct.
When I increase effectiveness of the controls AI can't control the plane smoothly enough and it
looks bad and often result with ground collisions in low level flights.

Defensive maneuvers in dogfight

Game is using same set of maneuvers as original Il2. This is something where we can make easy
progress. More maneuvers and better selection of them will make things noticeably better. We don't
have to make very big changes here at first but we can make some positive changes that will show
players that we are going in the right direction.

Commands

This is complete mess. Just a couple commands work and half of them don't work as they are
supposed to. Biggest problem is that in order for commands to work, actions they should perform
should work. And they don't. So there is huge amount of work necessary before we can enable all of
the commands that were supposed to be in the game.

AI enemy detection

This is one of the main reasons why commands don't work. Ai have very poor vision, especially
lower AI levels. Rookies are practically blind and oblivious to the environment. This is not that hard
to fix but I need to find right balance between AI ability and computation. As you know this game is
not an epitome of efficiency as far as code is concern. So we have to be careful not to add anything
that is not absolutely necessary.
 
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TFS Developer Update – September 2018

Hello everybody. Time seems to be accelerating so much. It doesn’t seem like more than a week since I put the last update out! The team has been very busy though and there seems to be more going on than I can fit in to a single update. So much so that it may be necessary to start doing a few mid-month updates! So without further ado, let us proceed…

Team
We welcome two new members to the team this month. Emeren works as a freelancer in the 3D industry and will be working on existing and new 3D models. Daveod06 is a map creator and will be bringing his experience of producing several maps for IL-2 1946 into the map team.
To me it feels like there is a certain buzz going on within the team. For so long team members have been working their spare time on various labours of love – but now, much is being shared as we progressively move out of the modelling phase (i.e. stand-alone 3D models and textures), and into an integration phase (i.e. importing the new data items into the game). For many, it is the first time we’re starting to see completed work in all its refinery and there is a lot of positive feedback going on.

Schedule
We remain on track to our internal schedule and confidence and morale remain high.

Progress
Map
The team continue to stabilise the Map Editor and have done some tremendous work. The all new Tobruk map has been imported into a development build and we’re starting to fly around above it. The sad news is that I’m not going to show it off in this release. Why? Well we want to refine the textures and get some more objects populated on it before we showcase it e.g. airfields and buildings. There is also the matter of the sea… which needs to be changed from mucky English Channel colours to lovely rich Mediterranean blue.

Aircraft
In all cases, the flight models continue to be tweaked during test and are not therefore specifically reported on. This includes the various Mk variants, e.g. Spitfire VB would cover both the +12 boost and +16 boost types as well as tropical mods. This is the current status:
- CR42 cockpit 3D and textures complete. Importing almost complete.
- Bf-108 3D and textures complete awaiting import.
- Bf-109F-1, 2 & 4 imported and awaiting cockpit texturing re-work.
- Spitfire IIa 3D and textures complete, import complete. Internal animation and test in progress.
- Spitfire IIb 3D and textures complete, import complete. Internal animation and test in progress.
- Spitfire VA 3D and textures complete, import complete. Internal animation and test in progress.
- Spitfire VB 3D and textures complete, import complete. Internal animation and test in progress.
- P-40B/C Tomahawk 3D modelling almost complete. Texturing phase has started.
- P-40E Kittihawk 3D modelling almost complete. Texturing phase has started.
- Macchi C-202 cockpit 3D modelling almost complete.
- Macchi C-202 external model 3D modelling underway.
- Dewoitine D.520 3D and textures complete, import in progress.
- Gladiator II completed.
- Hurricane IIA 3D modelling and textures complete, awaiting import.
- Hurricane IIB 3D modelling and textures complete, awaiting import.
- Hurricane IIC 3D modelling and textures complete, awaiting import.
- Beaufighter Mk IC awaiting import.
- Wellington IA turrets 3D, texture complete and imported. Cockpit/Bombardier positions 3D and textures almost complete, awaiting import.
- Wellington IC turrets 3D, texture complete and imported. Cockpit/Bombardier positions 3D and textures almost complete, awaiting import.
- Wellington IC external 3D details underway.
- Martlet III external, cockpit 3D and texture just about complete, awaiting import.

AI
Work is underway with re-writing the AI command GUI to fix the errors and mistakes which were there. In addition, work is currently be done on addressing certain AI combat routines
.

 

 
Edited by BladeMeister
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1 hour ago, BladeMeister said:

Defensive maneuvers in dogfight

Game is using same set of maneuvers as original Il2. This is something where we can make easy
progress. More maneuvers and better selection of them will make things noticeably better. We don't
have to make very big changes here at first but we can make some positive changes that will show
players that we are going in the right direction.

 

That is really good news.  The manoeuvring routines developed in the Diadalos patches are  brilliant so similar progress for Clod would be game changing in SP.

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As I remember AI from original game, they did not appear stupid when attacking. Very aggressive they where . Problem was mainly that they suddenly brake away and flew formation home. And you could shoot them down like sitting duck. I know AI is not a easy fix, but to me that bit , if anything is easy with AI that should be.  And for the two original campaigns this was the most destructive behavior 

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20 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

As I remember AI from original game, they did not appear stupid when attacking. Very aggressive they where . Problem was mainly that they suddenly brake away and flew formation home. And you could shoot them down like sitting duck. I know AI is not a easy fix, but to me that bit , if anything is easy with AI that should be.  And for the two original campaigns this was the most destructive behavior 

 

Sounds more like a mission design issue than AI issue to me.

One common mistake is to add a landing waypoint after mission target.

Better behaviour is often gained by adding a RTB waypoint close to the airfield with normal hunt/defend instructions and then make the last landing leg from there, maybe only 10 miles off landing strip or so.

Depending on AI behaviour one can also play with altitude changes to make bombers hurry up a little running home :)

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MP players generally are the ones to buy everything in the game just look at the number of spit9s flying around on the servers

 

However I am all for improvement of the AI and the AI gunners especially they sometimes act like snipers and sometimes cant even hit a yak parked on your 6 50m behind.

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theOden makes some good points, the mission designs create a lot of the issues you see, especially the use of way-points or lack of. That said, the AI is also to blame and needs a lot of work. 

 

@MP, both are important and worthy of our time. 

 

@ EAF_Fox, your personal thoughts about TFS have been noted elsewhere and there is no need to rehash them out. We will deliver a new game with 5.0, including new aircraft, new objects, a new theater, new effects, etc.  

 

And as stated multiple times in updates and in posts, the AI is undergoing a complete rewrite by a former member of Team Dialdos who worked on the AI there. From the July update of this year:

 

  • AI

 

A code study/analysis of the AI behavior modelling has been undertaken with the aim of understanding what needs to be changed and how. This has focused on offensive and defensive maneuvers, the command system, detection and gunnery. It is considered that improvements can be made in all areas. Work continues but here is an extract of the report:

ANALYSIS

AI Gunners

Easiest thing to fix. Mostly isolated from the other things regarding AI so changes we make here
will not affect anything else.

We can play with parameters until we find good balance between difficulty and fun.

AI Fighters shooting

Fighter planes don't shot effectively in dogfights. This is combination of two problems. First one is
selection of correct aiming point. That one is easier to correct and it can be considered solved.
Second part of the problem is getting the plane pointed at correct aiming point. With this one I'm
not satisfied yet. In some situations and with some planes shooting is acceptable. Hit percentages
are good and everything seems to be fine. But there are some annoying occurrences of visibly bad
shooting.

Things like that are annoying for players because AI looks like complete idiot who can't do simple
correction of the aim. This is related to the way AI controls the plane but this is tricky to do correct.
When I increase effectiveness of the controls AI can't control the plane smoothly enough and it
looks bad and often result with ground collisions in low level flights.

Defensive maneuvers in dogfight

Game is using same set of maneuvers as original Il2. This is something where we can make easy
progress. More maneuvers and better selection of them will make things noticeably better. We don't
have to make very big changes here at first but we can make some positive changes that will show
players that we are going in the right direction.

Commands

This is complete mess. Just a couple commands work and half of them don't work as they are
supposed to. Biggest problem is that in order for commands to work, actions they should perform
should work. And they don't. So there is huge amount of work necessary before we can enable all of
the commands that were supposed to be in the game.

AI enemy detection

This is one of the main reasons why commands don't work. Ai have very poor vision, especially
lower AI levels. Rookies are practically blind and oblivious to the environment. This is not that hard
to fix but I need to find right balance between AI ability and computation. As you know this game is
not an epitome of efficiency as far as code is concern. So we have to be careful not to add anything
that is not absolutely necessary.

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Thank you for your extensive reply  Spiritus, but in all I read here in your post I just find a analysis of the bugs and limitations that still are present in this game and a mere promise that "Dev. TF team will try or think to reach the goal to correct some of them more or less: all this sound to me just -words- and promises as many others made from T.F Team in many years.

Hopefully for me as like many other people that love WWII sim, I'll see any real progress on A.I. applied into a future patch of CLOD/BLITZ I'll be the first to congrats with  Dev. Team.

Till this moment I rest to my opinion based on years of "bla..bla..bla..." from TF Team. I remember that more than a year ago TF team receved the code of the game and they stated "Now we can repair lot's of bugs..hurraa!!".. one year has passed and 4.3 +  BLITZ releases are all than a incremental patch as we sadly have seen.

Regards.

Edited by EAF_51_FOX

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5 hours ago, EAF_51_FOX said:

Thank you for your extensive reply  Spiritus, but in all I read here in your post I just find a analysis of the bugs and limitations that still are present in this game and a mere promise that "Dev. TF team will try or think to reach the goal to correct some of them more or less: all this sound to me just -words- and promises as many others made from T.F Team in many years.

Hopefully for me as like many other people that love WWII sim, I'll see any real progress on A.I. applied into a future patch of CLOD/BLITZ I'll be the first to congrats with  Dev. Team.

Till this moment I rest to my opinion based on years of "bla..bla..bla..." from TF Team. I remember that more than a year ago TF team receved the code of the game and they stated "Now we can repair lot's of bugs..hurraa!!".. one year has passed and 4.3 +  BLITZ releases are all than a incremental patch as we sadly have seen.

Regards.

Thanks for your reply and your continued interest in the game, TF looks forward to your response on the new TF 5.0 Module's release.  Hopefully it will be to your satisfaction.  👋

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3 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Thanks for your reply and your continued interest in the game, TF looks forward to your response on the new TF 5.0 Module's release.  Hopefully it will be to your satisfaction.  👋

I will be happy..and not just me I think. Thank Buzz..at least with you and Spiritus is possible to comunicate in seriuous manner without falling into babyish reply. Thanks again. Regards.

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I don't see the interest in more SP because I find it boring and repetitive.

Can't wait for the release, Im sure all the players who got bored with this old game like me will jump back in for some MP, we're def going in the right direction, all we badly need is high quality content with better graphics.

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Can not be bothered by MP... people like me will jump back in because of updated AI and SP career.

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15 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Can not be bothered by MP... people like me will jump back in because of updated AI and SP career.

Same, I do play blitz from time to time, doing random stuff in quick battles or even going into multi but it's meh 😕 just waiting for a career. Game is not dead, most people just don't have anything to do there so we wait for SP. I said that many times, SP is future, even if there wont be people to play MP, people will always buy expansions and new stuff and play anytime they want without need of full servers. MP sooner or later dies, SP can live forever.

 

Just look at titan quest,  game from 2006 got dlc in 2017 and people bought it. No one would buy dlc for game with dead multi if that's all game could offer.

Edited by InProgress

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I must say that if TF gets the AI right and the Radio commands fixed I will be all back in this. I am a SP that is waiting for 5.0. I APPLAUD TFS FOR FINDING SOMEONE TO LOOK AT THE AI AND RADIO COMMANDS FOR 5.0!!! Get it right and I will buy whatever TF puts out. Do a half ass job and have crappy AI and radio commands again and I will most likely not buy anything else. I quite frankly am tired of Devs trumping MP above SP and not developing the AI to be fun and a challenge to fight. I never flew BOBII, but I always heard that it had the best AI to fight. Well if those devs could do it back then then it is certainly possible to do again. I am tired of Devs saying we don't have the resources to employ someone to do that. If SP development isn't as big of a priority as MP development then I think I might be done buying anymore flight sims. I am still hoping that TF will pull this off. I am getting very frustrated with the GB series again because there are three great theaters, great FMs, great flexibility in sim adjustment and soon a fourth theater yet the AI has barely been improved. I give them credit for a little bit of work on the AI, but in all reality it is completely predictable and insanely attack at all costs no matter what. That is completely boring, attack AI, AI right turns to the ground and is dead. AI is damaged and still attacks endlessly, AI gangs up on you, AI fly right by you to attack the next ahead of you, AI almost never hi tails it home, AI will attack your flight of 5 planes by itself. These are all spoilers for SP, just to mention a few.  I have to say that I am finding WOTR really fun to fly and am spending my sim time there most of the time. You never know what the AI are going to do. That is quite refreshing for a SP. I am not bashing any particular Devs here, but most all of them leave a lot to be desired in there SP presentation. IMHO, WOTR/WOFF UE are king in SP, IL2 1946, DCS are second and GB, CLOD, ROF are third. There you have it. Want my cash? Give me a good SP fun sim to fly and you got it! Keep dishing out pretty(I Love Eye Candy) MP centered SP ignored sims and you can't have my cash. It has become that simple for me. Devs, you are being put on notice. Recognize the potential of SP income and quit shoving it back as second priority to MP or you have one less customer.

 

S!Blade<><

 

 

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Of course CloD MP numbers are down, ACG left for BoS and everyone is quite bored of the channel map and the endless repetition of ATAG missions. There's been hardly anything new in CloD for a while now. And no, 4.5 doesn't really count as something new.

Edited by No.615_Woop

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@69th spiritus, to be completly honest from someone who flew extensivly with you, redhawk, and lucky years ago, move on....Id like to see TF start supporting BoX, just makes more sense to put your effort into something that will be around longer.  Cliffs is dead, you can argue against this all you want but its days are in the past, and its no F 4.0 bms thatll be around until human extinction.  Actually had this discussion last night  with several from the old heydays of ATAG 3 to 4 years ago, and we all overwhelmingly agreed.  The 69th would really enjoy BoX. So in a nutshell move on   Semper Fi   -jarhead (from clod days)

 

 

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You don't have to move on... it's perfectly fine to love playing and improving more than one flippin game!

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