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Does IL-2 GB need to return to the Eastern Front?

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3 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

if they continue with 5x5 airplanes per side in each dlc, problem is what airplanes you use for german side if you do 2 or more east front expantions, or even any other expantion involving german airplanes. They should at one point just sell map with career and campaign for map for existing airplanes to be used there + some missing airplanes for that area as collectables.

 

That's a general issue involving all scenarios with German involvement. While there are many interesting German aircraft not in the Game right now, there is almost no relevant fighter left out between mid 1941 to early 1945. So if we keep the current system with 3 fighter per expansion, i think it has to change. We'd either have to take an earlier theatre (e.g. Battle of France), a theatre with Italian involvement to get those nice 5 series aircraft in or a non European scenario.

 

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4 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

if they continue with 5x5 airplanes per side in each dlc, problem is what airplanes you use for german side if you do 2 or more east front expantions, or even any other expantion involving german airplanes. They should at one point just sell map with career and campaign for map for existing airplanes to be used there + some missing airplanes for that area as collectables.

 

True. I wouldn´t mind getting some map packs with integrated career options for the planes already released and the add-on planes on top. But I think they aim at releasing "full stand alone" modules. Maybe they change that in the future. Would love to see a Kurland pack 1944-1945 or a Leningrad pack 1942-1944. Hell there is so much content on the eastfront still untouched.

 

1 hour ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

That's a general issue involving all scenarios with German involvement. While there are many interesting German aircraft not in the Game right now, there is almost no relevant fighter left out between mid 1941 to early 1945. So if we keep the current system with 3 fighter per expansion, i think it has to change. We'd either have to take an earlier theatre (e.g. Battle of France), a theatre with Italian involvement to get those nice 5 series aircraft in or a non European scenario.

 

 

Yes. 1944/45 could still work though for eastfront with 190 A9, 109 G10 and Ta 152 and a 1944 westfront module with 190 A6, 190 A7 and late 109 G6 in Normandy/France would also work. Then add two 2-engined german bombers/heavy fighters to each module and everything would be set.

Edited by sevenless

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2 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

True. I wouldn´t mind getting some map packs with integrated career options for the planes already released and the add-on planes on top. But I think they aim at releasing "full stand alone" modules. Maybe they change that in the future. Would love to see a Kurland pack 1944-1945 or a Leningrad pack 1942-1944. Hell there is so much content on the eastfront still untouched.

 

 

Yes. 1944/45 could still work though for eastfront with 190 A9, 109 G10 and Ta 152 and a 1944 westfront module with 190 A6, 190 A7 and late 109 G6 in Normandy/France would also work. Then add two 2-engined german bombers/heavy fighters to each module and everything would be set.

 

I would never pay for a scenario with A6 and A7 (even though 190 is my favourite aircraft) since they are almost the same as the A5. G6 late..this should definitely be a loadout for the G6 we already have, just as it is with the La-5. 

I want new aircraft not the same rehash again and again. It was already done too much for my taste (e.g. 109-G4, 109-F2). German aircraft i would be looking forward are the Do-217, He-219, Arado Ar234, or a Ju-88 heavy fighter (or one of the other very interesting mods). I really don't need to see any more post-1941 German fighters...

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3 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

I would never pay for a scenario with A6 and A7 (even though 190 is my favourite aircraft) since they are almost the same as the A5. G6 late..this should definitely be a loadout for the G6 we already have, just as it is with the La-5. 

I want new aircraft not the same rehash again and again. It was already done too much for my taste (e.g. 109-G4, 109-F2). German aircraft i would be looking forward are the Do-217, He-219, Arado Ar234, or a Ju-88 heavy fighter (or one of the other very interesting mods). I really don't need to see any more post-1941 German fighters...

 

See and that is where we differ. I would happily buy those simply to have a full 1941-1945 eastfront career timeframe or an early 1944 until end of war 1945 westfront timeframe. Different people, different tastes. Absolutely normal I guess. BTW: all those planes you listed I would buy also.

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New battles could give access to existing planes and discount the whole thing slightly for people who already own them. A mid-war western front scenario can't really avoid the 109G series, they even carried some of the night fighting slack, so say if you had Battle of Tunisia or Battle of Karelia or whatever, the 109G-2 would appear in that pack too, but Stalingrad owners would get $5 off or something.

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On the subject of using existing aircraft for expansions...

Does anybody know if the pilots will be exchangeable. For a hypothetical north African eg. It would be, for me, more asthetical and immersive to see a western pilot in the p40, spit, cobra and a-20. Is that something that's in the pipeline?

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17 hours ago, Mac_Messer said:

Rest some years and there will be no such games in the future because nobody cares about history anymore.

 

Not to worry, the Russians care about their history, especially the Great Patriotic War.  I don't think they will cease development of flight sims either as there is a healthy market over there and in other parts of Europe too.  The teaming up of the 1C/777 crew with Jason has been a great combination of talent and organisation which has made great strides with the Il2 BoX series over the last year and a half.

 

2 years ago I wouldn't have touched this series with a barge pole and now, I am an avid supporter and flyer greatful for what has come to pass with the recent developments.  Their team is small but they are delivering a stellar sim and constantly updating it, not just new modules but the whole series with every update.  That is commitment and great product support.

 

As for history, it is up to those of us who do care about it to help keep the interest alive among others and to seek factual truth of what has past.  To try to see past narratives and learn from what has passed so that it does not happen again.  Unfortunately, there seems to be very much that rhymes with what transpired just over a century ago and we must be dutiful to point this out and not let it snow ball into another human catastrophe.  Open global communication is the key.

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3 hours ago, =621=Samikatz said:

New battles could give access to existing planes and discount the whole thing slightly for people who already own them. A mid-war western front scenario can't really avoid the 109G series, they even carried some of the night fighting slack, so say if you had Battle of Tunisia or Battle of Karelia or whatever, the 109G-2 would appear in that pack too, but Stalingrad owners would get $5 off or something.

 

 

To me this illustrates the need to expand beyond the current plane set frankly rather than more 109 vs X, which  entails a discount because we're getting yet another expansion utilizing the 109 as the primary Axis fighter..again. No thanks.

 

The answer here IMHO (for more Eastern Front) is premium aircraft now and then + new 3rd party maps now and then, not complete modules.

 

Your suggestion while not foolish, doesn't expand the player base one bit.

Edited by Gambit21
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18 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

 

To me this illustrates the need to expand beyond the current plane set frankly rather than more 109 vs X, which  entails a discount because we're getting yet another expansion utilizing the 109 as the primary Axis fighter..again. No thanks.

 

The answer here IMHO (for more Eastern Front) is premium aircraft now and then + new 3rd party maps now and then, not complete modules.

 

Your suggestion while not foolish, doesn't expand the player base one bit.

 

It was just a random example. A better example might've been the P-40E?

 

Regardless, every air force did minor iterations of their existing aircraft and it's a problem we're going to have to confront eventually, rather than releasing honestly extremely redundant planes like the G-4 (improved radio systems aren't really a useful feature in a sim where I can't even talk to ATC...). Moving away from the 10 plane Battles format might be the way forward and open up a lot more opportunities

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On 1/18/2019 at 5:25 PM, blitze said:

Actually English is my mother tongue but maybe it is not the form of English that you are used too as it is spoken in other parts of the world other than the USA. 

 

Your summary of what war is about is quite on point and it seems in the last Century, the USA has practiced it for most of that century quite well and the early part of this Century.  Why is this?

As for the actual fighting side of it, well the Eastern Front was the most brutal in the European Theater and the second to that would probably be the Japanese occupation of China.  BTW who faced down the million man Japanese Army in Manchuria?

 

Your ideas on actual air combat would be lovely to hear one day.  Maybe you could school the rest of us as we seem to be so non understanding of the topic compared to your excellent self.  I do like the old P51, F4U, P40 and Brewster Buffalo which the Finns put to good effect against the VVS.

 

Again, keep pissing on the developers and their history. 👍

Comprehension must be the issue for you as you attempt to hide this deficiency with the pedantic tone of your reply. If factual discourse is " pissing " you or the developers off, lets just rewrite history and hand out participation trophies.

Your opinion , that the Eastern Front was the most  "brutal  in the European Theater " is not relevant to an individuals preference in a simulated combat game. If you know  your history, than you know the brutality was self-inflicted by poor planning, zero understanding of logistics and incompetence of both combatants. The PTO is much more interesting in every facet vs. the Eastern Front,.

 

Edited by Frequent_Flyer
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8 minutes ago, Frequent_Flyer said:

Comprehension must be the issue for you as you attempt to hide this deficiency with the pedantic tone of your reply

Lovely sentence, poorly punctuated. 4/10.

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11 minutes ago, Frequent_Flyer said:

Comprehension must be the issue for you as you attempt to hide this deficiency with the pedantic tone of your reply. If factual discourse is " pissing " you or the developers off, lets just rewrite history and hand out participation trophies.

Your opinion , that the Eastern Front was the most  "brutal  in the European Theater " is not relevant to an individuals preference in a simulated combat game. If you know  your history, than you know the brutality was self-inflicted by poor planning, zero understanding of logistics and incompetence of both combatants. The PTO is much more interesting in every facet vs. the Eastern Front,.

 

 

 ‘Murica!!

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2 hours ago, Frequent_Flyer said:

The PTO is much more interesting in every facet vs. the Eastern Front,.

 

 

Led Zeppelin wrote the greatest music in the history of mankind.  It's called an opinion.  Just because I believe it doesn't mean the rest of humanity is obliged to believe it too.

 

The eastern front is plenty interesting to me.  I would love to see one more module for 1944.  I would be just as good with western front modules.  Early war PTO is also interesting to me.  Late war PTO is not as interesting to me.  It's all opinion.  

 

Oh, and since you said "every facet", armored combat in the PTO is so much more interesting than eastern front ...

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9 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Led Zeppelin wrote the greatest music in the history of mankind.  It's called an opinion.  Just because I believe it doesn't mean the rest of humanity is obliged to believe it too.

 

The eastern front is plenty interesting to me.  I would love to see one more module for 1944.  I would be just as good with western front modules.  Early war PTO is also interesting to me.  Late war PTO is not as interesting to me.  It's all opinion.  

 

Oh, and since you said "every facet", armored combat in the PTO is so much more interesting than eastern front ...

 

Well said - and that’s coming from a PTO fan.

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35 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Led Zeppelin wrote the greatest music in the history of mankind.  It's called an opinion.  Just because I believe it doesn't mean the rest of humanity is obliged to believe it too.

 

The eastern front is plenty interesting to me.  I would love to see one more module for 1944.  I would be just as good with western front modules.  Early war PTO is also interesting to me.  Late war PTO is not as interesting to me.  It's all opinion.  

 

Oh, and since you said "every facet", armored combat in the PTO is so much more interesting than eastern front ...

If you read my preceding  post,  you will see I concur, we all have our own personal preference- regarding  theater of operation. Is that your "opinion " ,Eastern Front armored combat is much more interesting than in the PTO ? Or is the rest of humanity obliged to believe you ? By the way my preference is the original artists, Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Howl'n Wolf and Willie Dixon, Elmor James, etc.

Merica!

 

Edited by Frequent_Flyer
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17 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Led Zeppelin wrote the greatest music in the history of mankind.  It's called an opinion.  Just because I believe it doesn't mean the rest of humanity is obliged to believe it too.

 

The eastern front is plenty interesting to me.  I would love to see one more module for 1944.  I would be just as good with western front modules.  Early war PTO is also interesting to me.  Late war PTO is not as interesting to me.  It's all opinion.  

 

Oh, and since you said "every facet", armored combat in the PTO is so much more interesting than eastern front ...

 

I like Zeppelin as much as the next guy, but a very large part of their catalogue is shamelessly taken from American Folk and Blues songs...they admit this much themselves and it's probably why they are the most sued group in history. (but they are an awesome group still)

 

With that being said, I would love to see the Gulf of Finland done in this sim, complete with glorious Finnish B-239s lighting up Soviet I-153s, and intercepting SB-2s and DB-3s.

 

Oh yeah - the splendid Finns also get Blenheims, G-50s and Gladiators.

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3 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

 ‘Murica!!

About time to put this thread to bed, isn't it? Has one single opinion been changed in 20 plus pages of snarky comments? I'm glad some are so dedicated to the idea that the real war was fought in the East and everything else was just easy pickings. Without a doubt that was why Stalin was opposed to any outside help from the West as far as materials and offensives were concerned.....

 

For myself and only myself, I think the better choice for the well being of this sim series' future, a different theater needs to be explored. But in the end, as an ''Murican, my opinion is just mine. You 'Nglish, 'Ussians and 'Ermans can continue to show the rest of us how damn much more sophisticated and knowledgeable you are. 

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2 minutes ago, Rjel said:

About time to put this thread to bed, isn't it? Has one single opinion been changed in 20 plus pages of snarky comments? I'm glad some are so dedicated to the idea that the real war was fought in the East and everything else was just easy pickings. Without a doubt that was why Stalin was opposed to any outside help from the West as far as materials and offensives were concerned.....

 

For myself and only myself, I think the better choice for the well being of this sim series' future, a different theater needs to be explored. But in the end, as an ''Murican, my opinion is just mine. You 'Nglish, 'Ussians and 'Ermans can continue to show the rest of us how damn much more sophisticated and knowledgeable you are. 

 

Well said.

That sideways Anti-American put-down is getting old.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Well said.

That sideways Anti-American put-down is getting old.

 

 

Absolutely. 

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6 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Well said.

That sideways Anti-American put-down is getting old.

 

 

Not about put-downs it is about acknowledging the human condition outside of ones sphere and realising that war sucks no matter who fights and also humans the world over can be quite ingenious especially when it comes to killing each other.

 

I appreciate as much an American plane as I do a German plane, a Soviet plane, a British plane, Italian and Japanese.  They seemed to be the main players in this time period building and developing aircraft and they all have interesting ones to fly and die in.

 

Last night I had a fly in a Ju88 and He111 in VR for the first time - it was WOW.  Next stop - A20 and Pe2.

 

Awaiting P51, Tempest Mosquito (Hint), P38, and would love Buffalo Brewster, Hurricane, F4U Corsair, Zero, La 7 and maybe a Yak 3.

 

Most recently flown plane in career - P40.  Love those 50 Cals, they shred. 😀👍

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2 minutes ago, blitze said:

Not about put-downs it is about acknowledging the human condition outside of ones sphere and realising that war sucks no matter who fights and also humans the world over can be quite ingenious especially when it comes to killing each other.

 

I appreciate as much an American plane as I do a German plane, a Soviet plane, a British plane, Italian and Japanese.  They seemed to be the main players in this time period building and developing aircraft and they all have interesting ones to fly and die in.

 

Last night I had a fly in a Ju88 and He111 in VR for the first time - it was WOW.  Next stop - A20 and Pe2.

 

Awaiting P51, Tempest Mosquito (Hint), P38, and would love Buffalo Brewster, Hurricane, F4U Corsair, Zero, La 7 and maybe a Yak 3.

 

Most recently flown plane in career - P40.  Love those 50 Cals, they shred. 😀👍

 

Good post but we’re referring to a certain word used with a thinly veiled meaning that has nothing to do with human condition or war sucking. 

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1 hour ago, Rjel said:

I'm glad some are so dedicated to the idea that the real war was fought in the East and everything else was just easy pickings.

 

Can you provide a link to any post which said that “everything else was easy pickings”?  Because I can link to plenty of ‘Murica posts.

 

BTW, I’m American.  ‘Murica isn’t really a put down of Americans.  Just a certain subset.  You know, the ones who appear to be completely unaware that the Russians killed more German soldiers, by a wide margin, than were killed in the West.

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I get it Robin - and understood... but your post aside I’ve noticed the use of the term creeping lately with no mistake about the undertone. 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

I get it Robin - and understood... but your post aside I’ve noticed the use of the term creeping lately with no mistake about the undertone. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it’s a real mystery why that’s become a thing.

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On 1/18/2019 at 8:09 PM, blitze said:

 Also, Soviet aircraft were the equal of anything the West could develop as shown in Korea with the more recent opened up documentation on that war showing that the "UN" forces suffered huge losses in aviation at the hands of Soviet pilots which were until recently hidden from public view in the West.

 

Anywayyyyyyyyyyy...................@blitze; tell us more about this "recent opened up documentation"  which were "hidden from public view in the west".

 

I'm agog!:wacko:

 

 

 

 

 

 

And only slightly sceptical:cool:

 

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27 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Can you provide a link to any post which said that “everything else was easy pickings”?  Because I can link to plenty of ‘Murica posts.

 

BTW, I’m American.  ‘Murica isn’t really a put down of Americans.  Just a certain subset.  You know, the ones who appear to be completely unaware that the Russians killed more German soldiers, by a wide margin, than were killed in the West.

Please do provide a link to the "Murica posts". Where it is " appears " the offender expressly contradicts your above referenced kill ratios. Although your point is about as relevant and meaningless  as stating, the Western Allies killed more Japanese soldiers than in the East. 

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4 minutes ago, Frequent_Flyer said:

Please do provide a link to the "Murica posts". Where it is " appears " the offender expressly contradicts your above referenced kill ratios. Although your point is about as relevant and meaningless  as stating, the Western Allies killed more Japanese soldiers than in the East. 

 

Um... the number killed actuallly does tell you a lot about the relative importance of the contributions, because killing the enemy is pretty much the entire point of a war.

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...hey Blitze, can you provide a link per chance? You have me curious.

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1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Can you provide a link to any post which said that “everything else was easy pickings”?  Because I can link to plenty of ‘Murica posts.

 

BTW, I’m American.  ‘Murica isn’t really a put down of Americans.  Just a certain subset.  You know, the ones who appear to be completely unaware that the Russians killed more German soldiers, by a wide margin, than were killed in the West.

I think it was obvious that was sarcasm in my statement and yes there have been several statements in this thread alone stating that the war in the East was the real war (paraphrasing). Many more abound throughout the forum in one form or another. Regardless, if you're an American, I guess I can blow off your use of 'Murican. I still find it a slanderous term as much as if I were using a similarly offensive term to describe any other foreign national.

 

Whether or not the average "Murican" understands how and where WWII was fought, that really isn't a burning issue for most people in today's world. It is important to us because most of are us are lifelong history buffs. For the average person WWII is long in the past and only as relevant as is WWI or any other major world event even further back in time.

Edited by Rjel
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15 minutes ago, Rjel said:

It is important to us because most of are us are lifelong history buffs.

 

Then most of us should know which country was largely responsible for Gernany’s defeat.

 

 

Narrator:  It was Russia.

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36 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Um... the number killed actuallly does tell you a lot about the relative importance of the contributions, because killing the enemy is pretty much the entire point of a war.

I'm  appreciative  of your insightful explanation. However, your words were "you can link to Plenty Murica posts"  Where you cannot  abide be Murican's expressly contradicting your statement ; more Germans were  killed by Russians vs. the West.

In a Topic Titled :Does IL-2 GB need to return to the Eastern Front?-

The number of Germans killed by Russians is not relevant or meaningful .hopefully this point is not lost on you.

Please do as you offered. or are  you are just one of the usually suspects expressing your fake outrage .

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2 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Then most of us should know which country was largely responsible for Gernany’s defeat.

 

 

Narrator:  It was Russia.

Thx. Never knew. It all makes sense now.

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1 minute ago, Frequent_Flyer said:

I'm  appreciative  of your insightful explanation. However, your words were "you can link to Plenty Murica posts"  Where you cannot  abide be Murican's expressly contradicting your statement ; more Germans were  killed by Russians vs. the West.

In a Topic Titled :Does IL-2 GB need to return to the Eastern Front?-

The number of Germans killed by Russians is not relevant or meaningful .hopefully this point is not lost on you.

Please do as you offered. or are  you are just one of the usually suspects expressing your fake outrage .

 

To see lots of ‘Murica posts one can simply look through your posts.

1 minute ago, Rjel said:

Thx. Never knew. It all makes sense now.

 

You’re welcome!

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Oh FFS!

 

Get over it.  It was a combined effort of Strategic Bombing taking out German Oil Supplies and a huge meat grinder campaign in the East that defeated Germany.  The most vicious fighting the Western Allies found against Germany and her Allies was up through the Mediterranean/Italy.

 

As for the East, a good watch is

I know, Russian Propaganda I know, not produced and directed by Steven Spielberg but still.

 

More of that Commie stuff, this time on Korea 😉

 

http://wio.ru/korea/korea-a.htm

 

USAF documentation recently declassified from the war but USN documentation not.

 

We all know the best aircraft in WW2 were the Boomerang and Woomera.  The CA15 Kangaroo was going to be a hoot too but you buggers had to ruin everything with your Jets and stuff. 😛

 

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1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

To see lots of ‘Murica posts one can simply look through your posts.

 

You’re welcome!

So you looked, now produce the post where I offended your tender sensibilities and  contradicted your statement regarding death toll of German solders in the East vs. West? 

 

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19 minutes ago, Frequent_Flyer said:

So you looked, now produce the post where I offended your tender sensibilities and  contradicted your statement regarding death toll of German solders in the East vs. West? 

 

 

I have no idea what you're talking about.

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44 minutes ago, blitze said:

More of that Commie stuff, this time on Korea 😉

 

http://wio.ru/korea/korea-a.htm

 

USAF documentation recently declassified from the war but USN documentation not.

 

Er.....not quite what I was expecting......

 

I did enjoy the 'Drownings by Diego Zampini'  :wacko:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'Though on reflection,  perhaps it was what I was expecting.....

Edited by DD_Arthur

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33 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

I have no idea what you're talking about.

You have proven that point  through out this entire thread. Maybe, before you post next, make it after your cookie, juice-box and nap. Definitely after your Mommie explains the good old "Murican" common courtesy of refraining from calling other's names.

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