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Does IL-2 GB need to return to the Eastern Front?

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On 10/31/2018 at 3:04 AM, InProgress said:

I would like some expansion where germans are on defense.

 

You mean like the release we're about to get where the Germans are being pushed back East through Belgium, through the Hurtgen into Germany?

 

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10 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

You mean like the release we're about to get where the Germans are being pushed back East through Belgium, through the Hurtgen into Germany?

 

 

You could argue that it is the Luftwaffa's final offensive quite well.

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7 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

You could argue that it is the Luftwaffa's final offensive quite well.

 

There certainly was more allied offence at Stalingrad 1942 than there was German in Belgium 1944. All in all we have German defensive scenarios already.

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12 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

 

You could argue that it is the Luftwaffa's final offensive quite well.

 

For part of a single day.

After the push, when the Bulge was collapsing and it was defensive. That is the timeframe of this map.

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31 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

For part of a single day.

 

No, they were quite often offensive. I blame the malign influence of Goering.

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2 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

You mean like the release we're about to get where the Germans are being pushed back East through Belgium, through the Hurtgen into Germany?

 

Except on the east.

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37 minutes ago, InProgress said:

Except on the east.

 

By the way, the Germans were also on the retreat northward out of the Caucasus front in late 42. Thanks to the Ruskies and the Tuapse Defensive Operation.

 

Last time I checked we have that map.

That’s my A-20 campaign basically.

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Pretty much all 3 maps we have cover areas that were the scene of large German offensives and subsequent Soviet counteroffesives. Thus we have Germany in both offensive and defensive roles for every title. 

 

Arguably the most on the defensive we see the German side (prior to BoBP) is BoM. The whole northern part of the front came quite close to collapsing completely in December 1941. The Germans were not “pushed back” from Moscow, as was once the common belief, they were damn near crushed.

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19 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

Pretty much all 3 maps we have cover areas that were the scene of large German offensives and subsequent Soviet counteroffesives. Thus we have Germany in both offensive and defensive roles for every title. 

 

Arguably the most on the defensive we see the German side (prior to BoBP) is BoM. The whole northern part of the front came quite close to collapsing completely in December 1941. The Germans were not “pushed back” from Moscow, as was once the common belief, they were damn near crushed.

 

Which is also the scene of Mars, and that was pretty bloody (but tactically successful) German defensive effort.

 

There are 2 fantastic JG51 campaigns made by Juri - I think - that cover winter 1942-43 and which I wholeheartedly recommend.

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6 hours ago, Bearcat said:

 

 

That's your story? It probably would have been an even far less pleasant time had things gone the other way ..

 

WW2 happened for a lot of reasons .....  this post borders on apologist revisionism ..  Let's just not go there at all ok or your posts will be removed if they continue down that direction. 

 

Fair enough.  Your boards and I will respect that as long as you respect that there needs to be serious discussion and critique to the official narratives that are presented as history and don't ignore the Facts.  Maybe look up the Versailles Treaty itself and also follow the money.

 

I also am not apologizing for the actions of any party involved in any conflict.  War is a massive failure of our species to get along and accept each other and I am saddened greatly by it including what we see today. 

 

I do however like the aircraft, even if they were designed only for killing each other, and the advances in tech that resulted.  Just like I like target shooting, I like the same in these aircraft modeled in a VR environment as it provides challenges.

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The original posters question is: "Does IL-2 GB need to return to the Eastern Front?

Answer: Hell no, we haven't even bloody left it yet!!! BOS, BOM, BOK - thats the only released battles so far are ALL based in the Eastern Front. And you want more?? 

 

We need to keep this title alive for the future...and that means moving west or to the Pacific to bring in players who don't particularly like the EF. 

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On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 2:34 AM, Feathered_IV said:

It was definitely a shocker when the focus of the game switched to Bodenplatte and 1945.

Prior to that the tone for the twelve months before was, please buy the Kuban so we can get to the Pacific next.  There wasn't even an indication that the Pacific had been dropped.  Right up the last day and the eve of the "Very Special Announcement" for the next chapter.  I was sitting there, credit card in one hand and pecking away at the F5 button with the other.  Right up to the last second.  Then the announcement appeared and it was not the Pacific at all, but instead a who's-who of uberplanes from the Warclouds server circa 2008.  I thought it was a prank! 

That was my feeling exactly.  And I never credited the technical difficulties explanation.  If carriers were too hard, then start at Guadalcanal where the overwhelming majority of the ops were ground based.  If it was necessary to seed additional income streams before proceeding, I can accept that.  But why not throw up a Finnish Buffalo as a sign of good faith?  It has soured me to the point that I haven't even booted it up to try the Spitfire.

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FFS...

 

First, for the umpteenth time, the PTO wasn't dropped...can we stop repeating this please.

Secondly what you "credit" is neither here nor there.

They never said it was a carrier problem - it was due to the overwhelming task of researching the aircraft and all that it involves, including translating manuals written in technical Japanese.

 

 

 

 

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Does IL-2 GB need to return to the Eastern Front?

 

For me I am sitting between two chairs. On one hand I want this eastfront experience to be continued until 5/45. My personal whish would be 2 modules, one covering 10/43 - 5/44, the other dealing with 6/44 - 5/45. Why is it my whish? Because I think there are some really fantastic and yet uncovered airframes to be modeled.

 

On the other hand I also love the PTO since Aces of the Pacific and really would love to have this theatre revived.

 

Additionally, with BoBP this company revived my almost fallen asleep interest in the ETO 44/45. So I now also want a Normandy Module and a Pre-Normandy Module. 😉

 

All of this is at least within possible reach of the game engine. Talking about a 5 years timeframe. Now I only need a signal from the company to help me out of my (I guess I am not alone) dilemma. At least please give a signal which theatre might be more and which might be less likely for the next years after BoBP hit the road.

 

As a last statement: Fortunately whatever they released in the past until now, and especially the way they continously improved the platform, gives me a really good feeling for the future.

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1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

FFS...

 

First, for the umpteenth time, the PTO wasn't dropped...can we stop repeating this please.

Secondly what you "credit" is neither here nor there.

They never said it was a carrier problem - it was due to the overwhelming task of researching the aircraft and all that it involves, including translating manuals written in technical Japanese.

 

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

Gambit, I've always enjoyed your posts but I don't appreciate you telling me that my perceptions as a loyal customer and supporter do not matter. 

 

 

 

 

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I’m not telling you that your perceptions don’t matter, only that in this case they don’t match what actually transpired.

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7 hours ago, sevenless said:

Additionally, with BoBP this company revived my almost fallen asleep interest in the ETO 44/45. So I now also want a Normandy Module and a Pre-Normandy Module. 😉

 

Very well said!

During my IL-2 '46 (and earlier) days I always had the presumption that flying the Allies was boring during that timeframe, as there was very little Luftwaffe opposition. But as you grow older, more mature and start looking at things from different perspectives, you'll learn to appreciate some things more. Especially when realizing how deadly te german flak was for allied fighter-bombers* and how important their mission was to bringing down the german ability to wage war.

 

Nowadays, I'm totally uninterested in pure fighter stuff - no matter on which front. Jabo stuff is my thing now, no matter which side and which theater of operations.

It's a more important job, has more decisive effects in the short term** and is the more dangerous but gratifiing business.

 

Having flown german fighters to death, I'm actually more interested in flying for the 9th USAAF now (and some Luftflotte 3 action - especially SKG 10 and other Jabo/ Schlachtflieger outfits) - likewise with the 2nd TAF.

_____

* I came to the realization via the detour of Vietnam and other jet-action games/ sims and books.

** Yes, protecting or shooting down a bomber does also have an impact, but the impact is little in terms of percentage, whereas taking down a marshalling yard or making a decisive strike to support troops at the front will have a more drect impact than shooting down one of 800 bombers.

Edited by Bremspropeller
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It would be too early to return to the eastern front for now.

 

They should focus on the the Western Front right now then the Pacific

 

Western Front we going at 44/45 but it would be nice to get a 42/44 add - on with the focus on the USAAF/RAF combined bomber offensive. Start with Black Thursday (Second Raid on Schweinfurt) with ending on Big Week (20-25 Feb 1944).  This would also open up for the German side for Defense of the Reich ( I want my ME-410 lol)

 

Pacific 

Start with Coral Sea leading to Midway (major turning point for the Imperial Japanese Navy. losing four fleet carriers they can't replace and the elite air crew)

Moving on to mid 42 to late 43 Guadalcanal and New Guinea (this can cover all major operations from the IJN in Rabual down the slot to the IJN/IJA Lae, Buna , etc) it allows for the IJA 68th, 78th, 59th, on the Allies might get 7th Fighter Squad (P-40,P-38), RAAF, RNAF etc.

From 44 to 45 it should be Battle of Philippine sea (last of the Japanese Navy carrier fleet destroyed)  leading to Iwo Jima or Okinawa with the Japanese side having a Campaign on Defense of the Homeland (bombing raids on major Japanese industry )

 

After that if all goes well maybe they should go Mediterranean/Eastern front again ? 

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On 11/17/2018 at 12:29 AM, sevenless said:

On the other hand I also love the PTO since Aces of the Pacific and really would love to have this theatre revived

 

I had it too. That and the contemporary 'aces over europe' and '1942 the pacific air war' (to my surprise, Steam released it some months ago). 

 

Quite some evolution since then eh?

 

Now my two cents on the 'offence vs defence' issue. Does it really matter that much? Its all a flavor thing,  lines changing on the map and an interesting narration. That aside, as it is both sides on campaign mode will have the very same mission types available anyway. Its not like only one side will be getting,  say for instance, ground attack missions just because it is the only side advancing. Having the grand battle series visit different scenarios should be more about interesting maps,  interesting contexts and interesting airframes, as a priority.

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I’ll be disappointed if the next release wasn’t the Pacific. 

A Mediterranean/Italian theatre of some sort would be a close second-best, albeit an unlikely one.

I’m not paying nearly £80 for a fourth Eastern Front release. 

 

There are ways around this impasse though.

If we go to Malta, for example; Cr.42 could also be used by Hungary, and G.50 by Finland.

Hurricane could be used by VVS and Finland, as could Gladiator. 

So there’s four aircraft that could also add greater depth to the Eastern Front while avoiding another Eastern Front release.

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I'd really like Malta, but that fact alone pretty much jinxes it.

I reckon they will keep the Pacific on the backburner for the next one and go for a fighter-only Korean chapter.

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1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

I'd really like Malta, but that fact alone pretty much jinxes it.

I reckon they will keep the Pacific on the backburner for the next one and go for a fighter-only Korean chapter.

I really hope they don't do Korea, I doubt I'd buy it. They need to stick with WW2 for now, and there's really no reason they can't or shouldn't

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Does IL-2 GB need to return to the Eastern Front?

 

YES!!

  • Unternehmen Silberfuchs
  • Kirkenes/Petsamo Offensive
  • Leningrad–Novgorod Offensive
  • Acrtic Convoys to Murmansk/Archangelsk
  • The Lost Karelia (incl. Isthmus, Lagoda, and East Karelia)

For me, the only reason to go to the Pacifc would be seaplanes, but you could have them on the Ostfront too.
 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

I reckon they will keep the Pacific on the backburner for the next one and go for a fighter-only Korean chapter.

 

Then that will be the first module not to buy. Really not interested in anything post-WW2.

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Well early Korea actually is WW2 planes for the most part.

 

Yak-9s and Po-2s on the North Korean side and P-51Ds and F4U-4s/-5s on the american side. Throw in a Sea Fury and a couple of crazy-a$$ Seafires (and Fireflies!) for the Royal Navy.

Can you say Skyraider? Or Tigercat?

 

You can have fun in Korea without a single jet.

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42 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Well early Korea actually is WW2 planes for the most part.

 

Yak-9s and Po-2s on the North Korean side and P-51Ds and F4U-4s/-5s on the american side. Throw in a Sea Fury and a couple of crazy-a$$ Seafires (and Fireflies!) for the Royal Navy.

Can you say Skyraider? Or Tigercat?

 

You can have fun in Korea without a single jet.

Don't for get the il-10

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And yet, you put out ‘Midway’ or ‘Okinawa’ and the response is likely to be far higher than ‘Inchon’ or ‘Chosin’.

 

I would buy either, but the Pacific likely haa greater draw.

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How do you guys imagine an Okinawa or (early) Korea scenario in a game like this?
Crushing the North Korean Air Force within several days mainly on the ground and flying exclusively MiG-15 afterwards? 
Single mission Tokkotai campaigns from Kyushu or Formosa to Okinawa?
Or simply some sandbox scenarios?

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1 hour ago, =27=Davesteu said:

How do you guys imagine an Okinawa or (early) Korea scenario in a game like this?
Crushing the North Korean Air Force within several days mainly on the ground and flying exclusively MiG-15 afterwards? 
Single mission Tokkotai campaigns from Kyushu or Formosa to Okinawa?
Or simply some sandbox scenarios?

 

Yes thats problem Okinawa without south part of japan or sothern islands betwen it and formosa on one map is not so good, and thats one big ass map. One small map like in 1946 wont fit for this game and historical campaign demands it would need.

Also Korea is 3-4 year war, youcant have all in one expantion, there has to be some battle selected as you cant do whole Korea as it should be for all war, so its either early or mid or late and that dictates airplanes heavy and map area, you wont mig ally and Mig15 vs Sabers, then no other N.Korean airplane and so on is corect to have. You wont early then no sabers and so on, its not just all in one for 3 years of war, map is just to big.

They both have fun plansets but areas are to big.

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well Okinawa with southern Japan could be done with the 1944 to 1945 bombing of Japan..

P-47N P-38L P-51D,etc Japanese side would get N1k2-J, Ki 61 etc

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9 hours ago, xvii-Dietrich said:

Does IL-2 GB need to return to the Eastern Front?

 

YES!!

  • Unternehmen Silberfuchs
  • Kirkenes/Petsamo Offensive
  • Leningrad–Novgorod Offensive
  • Acrtic Convoys to Murmansk/Archangelsk
  • The Lost Karelia (incl. Isthmus, Lagoda, and East Karelia)

For me, the only reason to go to the Pacifc would be seaplanes, but you could have them on the Ostfront too.
 

 

 

 

I can hear thousands of wallets clamping shut already.

 

Nothing wrong with more EF maps, and I'm positive that will happen.

Full release? Highly unlikely - thankfully.

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Way back to, the original OP - no - or sure, why not - but since we already have 3 EF, only after 3 or 4 other chapters elsewhere in the world. Being it was a world war and all...

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Honestly, I would have loved for 1C to focus on 1943 - the beginning of daylight bombing, fighter sweeps across the channel, anti-shipping strikes, medium bombing raids, etc and the constant battles between the 109/190 and the Spit IX, P47, P51B, P38. Or even the Med/North Africa (Italy, Malta, etc). 

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Perhaps they will decide they can save a few hundred thousand dollars of development money by adapting the Bodenplatte map and backdating several of the existing aircraft to do a Battle of France 1940 chapter.  

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8 hours ago, =27=Davesteu said:

How do you guys imagine an Okinawa or (early) Korea scenario in a game like this?
Crushing the North Korean Air Force within several days mainly on the ground and flying exclusively MiG-15 afterwards? 
Single mission Tokkotai campaigns from Kyushu or Formosa to Okinawa?
Or simply some sandbox scenarios?

 

I'd see it being focused on the Carrier ops for the Allied side and offering a big enough map to bring in Japanese forces from Kyushu or Formosa. I realize the distances are long and many may not want to fly those missions (they could do air starts and ends even). A US taskforce attacked Kyushu directly at one stage of the battle (the dates escape me) and that's an interesting series of missions too.

 

The Japanese lost over 1,400 aircraft in the Okinawa battle (and the Allies under 770). Some of those were kamikaze but not all. There's more depth and complexity to the overall battle for Okinawa than some give credit for I think.

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14 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Perhaps they will decide they can save a few hundred thousand dollars of development money by adapting the Bodenplatte map and backdating several of the existing aircraft to do a Battle of France 1940 chapter.  

 

I have wondered about this as well. I feel like they'd have to adjust the typical module price slightly if you already own Bodenplatte if they were to do this (should you really charge someone to buy the same map twice?), but it'd be considerably easier to make and would allow BoX to finally traipse over into Early War.

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The map would probably require an update (spring 1940 looks different than autumn/winter 1944) so it would not be the same same map. It would still lower the effort considerably.

 

Personally, if that was the price to, for the first time since ages if at all, see Dutch, Belgian and French designs in a flight sim, I'd happily pay twice for two similar maps.

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1 hour ago, JtD said:

The map would probably require an update (spring 1940 looks different than autumn/winter 1944) so it would not be the same same map. It would still lower the effort considerably.

 

Personally, if that was the price to, for the first time since ages if at all, see Dutch, Belgian and French designs in a flight sim, I'd happily pay twice for two similar maps.

 

Yep, me too. But given everything I doubt that it is a priority.

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