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Does IL-2 GB need to return to the Eastern Front?

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18 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

You guys need to let go of BoB and the Med for now (for a long time/forever)...and further Eastern Front full releases.

Not happening.

 

Finally someone who's listening. Although the 2nd part of your statement is a bit disheartening it is something I can live with for the sake of the prosperity of the sim.

 

I do still hold firm that the most likely scenario after BoBP is Korea, specially given the little hint that was dropped in the last Dev Diary regarding the Me-262s jet engine tech.

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59 minutes ago, Novice-Flyer said:

Even the moderator, “Buzzsaw” said that it will be done in 2019.

 

2 weeks, be sure 😎

 

5 minutes ago, Tony_Kito said:

 

Finally someone who's listening. Although the 2nd part of your statement is a bit disheartening it is something I can live with for the sake of the prosperity of the sim.

 

I do still hold firm that the most likely scenario after BoBP is Korea, specially given the little hint that was dropped in the last Dev Diary regarding the Me-262s jet engine tech.

 

They have announced nothing yet with regards to their plans post BoBP. So everyones guess is as good as the next one. They need revenue, that´s for sure. I expect something from the horses mouth in Q1/2019, not earlier.

Edited by sevenless

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Korea, eh?  There have been about two Korean Air War sims and only one was any good.  Even the good one wasn't a top seller; very much a niche even back when flight sims were the thing.

 

Don't get me wrong; I would enjoy playing crack & burn with the F-84 as much as anyone.  I would buy the thing.  But only after some Pacific theater aircraft and maps start coming our way.  Can't figure out the Japanese tech manuals?  OK, I'll settle for Wildcats and a Torch theme.  RN Hellcats.  Finnish Buffaloes. 

Edited by Vig
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Yes PTO is still only one that is next, all other is just what after, i still dont see any reason to not think PTO is next its only will it be Midway as hoped from start or something els. Also that hint about expanding the pool of airplanes with jet tehnologie is 99.999998432% about Ar-234 as collectable in future as they said they made choice of doing it or 262 for initial bobp, and 0.0000789% about Korea.

Edited by 77.CountZero

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1 hour ago, Vig said:

Kora, eh?  There have been about two Korean Air War sims and only one was any good.  Even the good one wasn't a top seller; very much a niche even back when flight sims were the thing.

 

Don't get me wrong; I would enjoy playing crack & burn with the F-84 as much as anyone.  I would buy the thing.  But only after some Pacific theater aircraft and maps start coming our way.  Can't figure out the Japanese tech manuals?  OK, I'll settle for Wildcats and a Torch theme.  RN Hellcats.  Finnish Buffaloes. 

 

Korea will sell like a brick. Forget it.

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1 hour ago, Vig said:

OK, I'll settle for Wildcats and a Torch theme.  RN Hellcats.  Finnish Buffaloes. 

 

v-xq4iUTnFAMW2O91dKCZw_r.jpg

 

51 minutes ago, sevenless said:

Korea will sell like a brick. Forget it.

 

Giving the fact that:

1. A thorough Korean simulation in the depths of the Great Battles series has not been done for quite a while and it the Korean Peninsula situation is somewhat relevant in the current year;

2. A 1950-53 scenario would present some of the peak classics of early jet aviation, pitting two of the largest GB markets (Russia - USA) against each other;

3. The only competitor for the jet lineup being DCS has sold fairly well in its Korean-era modules, despite having ABSOLUTELY NO CONTENT to work with aside from a few token campaigns;

 

I think you are sorely mistaken

Edited by Tony_Kito

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5 minutes ago, Tony_Kito said:

I think you are sorely mistaken

 

I am not basing business decisions on that. The risk is with the decision maker. They know that.

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I dont know what will come next but I'm not worried. They will come up with an interesting battle and planeset the same way they did with Bodenplatte when the Pacific wasn't ready.

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8 hours ago, sevenless said:

Korea will sell like a brick. Forget it. 

 

I disgreee strongly.

 

Korea has everything:

- romantic napalm-fires at sunset

- romantic jet-dogfights

- romantic night-interdiction

 

Korea carries some iconic aircraft, like like Sabres and MiGs, Skyraiders, Mustangs, Invaders, Corsairs, Sea Furies, Fireflies, Superfortresses and iconic but lesser known aircraft like AT-6s and F-82s. Did I mention Tigercats? Or Meteors?

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1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

I disgreee strongly.

 

Korea has everything:

- romantic napalm-fires at sunset

- romantic jet-dogfights

- romantic night-interdiction

 

Korea carries some iconic aircraft, like like Sabres and MiGs, Skyraiders, Mustangs, Invaders, Corsairs, Sea Furies, Fireflies, Superfortresses and iconic but lesser known aircraft like AT-6s and F-82s. Did I mention Tigercats? Or Meteors?

 

But it doesent have all in one area that can be reasnobly fit you would have to have 2-3 differant maps and 2-3 DLC to cover Battles in Korea

 

its not like, oh just give us for example:

 

MiG-15bis, La-11. Tu-2, Il-10, Yak9P

F-86F, F-84E F4U , SeaFury, B-29

 

For them all to be able to operate you have to have map from West China to Japan , and thats atleast 1000x1000km map to cover whole war

 

and there is planty of UN airplanes missing and almost all N.Korea airplanes that saw little use are acounted for in 5 airplanes.

 

[edited]

 

Edited by SYN_Haashashin

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You could split the maps into battles:

 

Battle of Pusan

Battle over MiG-Alley

Battle of Incheon

 

I'd personally just stick to the peninsula with a little water around it and sell the planesets as DLCs based on the battles. Start with MiG-alley (map+airplanes) and feed additional content later on. That additional content could also be used on WW2 maps (eg. the Mustangs or Invaders; Tu-2 and IL-10).

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For Mig Ally they would have only MiG-15s for one side, all thouse other prop bombers and fighters were used only in early battles and only in limited use as far i know, so to squise atleast 5 airplanes for N. Korea side you have to have map for their operations so you can use them in SP, and that means one big map, or less airplanes per DLC or 1 por one side and 9 for other side... something would have to change from this 5x5 DLC model.

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I wouldn't mind some creative license regarding the maps as long as I'd get the chance to fly the Sea Fury, Sea Fire Fr Mk.47, Sabre. Mig-15, P-51H, Skyraider and P-80 in Il-2. Really cool planes and not merely just jet combat.

 

If the team is still having trouble and needs more time with WW2 Pacific, Korea would be a great option to have carriers but no Japanese aircraft that lack documentation.

When it comes to expanding the planeset jet-wise, Arado would be a great collector plane for Bodenplatte but beyond that, I'd rather have Korea than a 1945/1946 full of Wunderwaffle memes like the Komet, Volksjäger and Horten.

Edited by Sotka94

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16 hours ago, Novice-Flyer said:

When TFS releases TF 5.0 in, probably the spring of 2019, all of the bugs and problems still lingering in it will be resolved, and the game will be playable just like BoS and 1946.

 

 

Riiiiight.

 

2 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Korea carries some iconic aircraft, like like Sabres and MiGs, Skyraiders, Mustangs, Invaders, Corsairs, Sea Furies, Fireflies, Superfortresses and iconic but lesser known aircraft like AT-6s and F-82s. Did I mention Tigercats? Or Meteors?

 

How many dedicated Korea sims have there been? I remember "Mig Alley" from way back when ... but that's about it.

How many dedicated WW2 sims have there been?

What's practically the go-to scenario for any historic flightsim? Heck, WW2 has been (and still is) pretty much *the* go-to scenario not just for sims but for any combat- or strategy-related title with a historical setting.

 

Gotta be a reason for that.

 

I have been buying/playing flightsims (both with contemporary and historical scenarios) since at least "Their finest Hour" and SWOTL .... and I'd guess 80% of the historical ones I played were WW2-themed.

Or look at online-only/MMP products. Of the ones I've played only Air Warrior 2/3 had a dedicated Korea arena (which was always empty). All the others that come to mind were WW2 or occasionally WW1 (Warbirds, Aces High, WW2 Online, Dawn of Aces).

 

I'm not saying Korea wouldn't be interesting or that a change of scenario wouldn't be appreciated. But from a financial standpoint, I have my doubts that a developer could justify putting all their eggs into the Korea-basket... ;)

 

 

S.

Edited by 1Sascha

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The problem with Korea is the plane set especially after 1951 where the communists sole aircraft model is the MiG-15. Meanwhile the UN Forces have a large diversity of aircraft currently not modelled available to them, I don't think the 5vs5 plane set would work. UN would have to have more aircraft modelled for them. Or they could go into what-if scenarios and add aircraft that could have taken part but didn't like Il-28

 

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Korea could be a map, MiG and Sabre for quite some time before anything else is added. Already you have a valid historical scenario that DCS lacks.

 

MiG vs Sabre is just too good to ignore forever.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Korea could be a map, MiG and Sabre for quite some time before anything else is added. Already you have a valid historical scenario that DCS lacks.

 

MiG vs Sabre is just too good to ignore forever.

 

 

 

Well, as so happens they're currently developing the tech that allows jets to be modelled in the engine so...

 

If I had to bet: Map gets passed to a third party so they can concentrate on other lines of work for the time being. If the map pans out, model the Sabre and the Mig and sell as a smaller package. The whole setup is comparatively "simple" (map + two planes) so it lends itself to be a "side-project". If it takes off, no reason not to build upon that, otherwise it stays an interesting tidbit for some people to enjoy mostly.

 

Still, I here I am as many others still hoping PTO is the next thing to happen:D

Edited by Mauf
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28 minutes ago, Mauf said:

 

Well, as so happens they're currently developing the tech that allows jets to be modelled in the engine so...

 

If I had to bet: Map gets passed to a third party so they can concentrate on other lines of work for the time being. If the map pans out, model the Sabre and the Mig and sell as a smaller package. The whole setup is comparatively "simple" (map + two planes) so it lends itself to be a "side-project". If it takes off, no reason not to build upon that, otherwise it stays an interesting tidbit for some people to enjoy mostly.

 

Still, I here I am as many others still hoping PTO is the next thing to happen:D

 

Good idea

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5 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

How many dedicated Korea sims have there been? I remember "Mig Alley" from way back when ... but that's about it.

How many dedicated WW2 sims have there been?

What's practically the go-to scenario for any historic flightsim? Heck, WW2 has been (and still is) pretty much *the* go-to scenario not just for sims but for any combat- or strategy-related title with a historical setting.

 

A BoX-based Korea Sim wouldn't be a standalone-affair, but a title within a family.

If the developers act smartly, they could put up 2-3 aircraft on each side that can be used on a late-war WW2 title, too.

 

That is actually a great advantage.

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1 minute ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

A BoX-based Korea Sim wouldn't be a standalone-affair, but a title within a family.

If the developers act smartly, they could put up 2-3 aircraft on each side that can be used on a late-war WW2 title, too.

 

That is actually a great advantage.

My point was more about the general popularity (or lack thereof) of Korea-scenarios in sims.

Besides: To do the scenario justice, they would have to implement some pretty modern systems (by WW2-standards), like the radar gunsight on the F-86 - perhaps even A2A-missiles. Not sure about the latter, but I'm pretty sure about the former.

 

S.

 

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There were no AA missiles in Korea.

The only thing not yt implemented in BoX is radar-ranging with the gunsight. Gyro sights are already in game.

 

An F-86 is - systems wise - not more complicated than a P-51.

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4 hours ago, 15[Span.]/JG51Spartan said:

Would Korean only attack American and Korean buyers? Would Europeans be interested? My advise ...  make a  poll before risking a business decision ...

Interesting question. My personal interest in a Korea scenario is at 0 and i definately wouldn't buy it.

 

I think they should add another European expansion next. I would prefer Invasion of Sicily + Italy scenario. Would work to close the gap between BoK and BoBP a bit. It could make use of some of the current planes and they could also start implementing carriers. Then they should move to the Pacific as originally planned. 

 

Then maybe they can move back to the Eastern Front, but they already spend 5 years on the Eastern Front now and that's a very long time. And i'm not sure if the current engine can just be upgraded over and over. So maybe they'll have to move to a different engine by the time they decide to go back to the Eastern Front. 

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8 minutes ago, Matt said:

I think they should add another European expansion next. I would prefer Invasion of Sicily + Italy scenario.

 

I give up.

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20 minutes ago, Tony_Kito said:

I give up.

No, just go ahead and post a quote from an official ruling out Italy.

 

But even if you manage to do that (which would supprise me), plans change. Pretty evident from the fact that we're not in the Pacific yet.

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Just now, Matt said:

No, just go ahead and post a quote from an official ruling out Italy

 

 

Be careful what you wish for 😬 

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Italy is not in North Africa. And he didn't rule anything out and he mentions that he plans to do Pacific next and not do the mediterranean at that point (which was two years ago...). So like i wrote, plans can change, Pacific isn't next. Meanwhile TFS has not released anything yet (i don't blame them) and when they do release their 1940-1941 North Africa sceneario, it doesn't conflict with a 1943-1944 Italy scenario at all (whicht won't be released before 2020-2021 anyway) and if the TFS expansion will be profitable, they would have even more reason to think about the mediterranean (and i don't mean North Africa with that).

Edited by Matt
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I agree. If they need more time for Japanese info/data translation or research, they can always make an first try for naval operations with the Royal Navy carriers during Italy Invasion. :)

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard
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A Korean module will surely incur in problems regarding the planeset (you can't have the usual 5+5 without getting liberties with the Communist side set) and of multiplayer gameplay (a side with a single jet geared toward A2A vs a side with a plethora of Jets, props and mission profiles available to them, the entire experience could be frustrating...).

As mainly a SP player I came to my own conclusion that at this point if they want to go for Korea they can go as long as they can flesh it out as all the other modules without compromising on the historical aspect. I would still prefer that we go to the Pacific or some other WW2 scenarios (even those allegedly taken up by CLOD) but it is the team call, I'll took up the Korean theatre as long as the scenario and planeset will satisfy my historical and gameplay tastes.

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14 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

I disgreee strongly.

 

Korea has everything:

- romantic napalm-fires at sunset

- romantic jet-dogfights

- romantic night-interdiction

 

Korea carries some iconic aircraft, like like Sabres and MiGs, Skyraiders, Mustangs, Invaders, Corsairs, Sea Furies, Fireflies, Superfortresses and iconic but lesser known aircraft like AT-6s and F-82s. Did I mention Tigercats? Or Meteors?

 

Doesn´t matter. It won´t sell as well as a WW2 Title would. It will be a commercial sideshow as Spanish Civil War, Vietnam or 6-Day War would be. They need to build on what they have already with EF and WF and fill the gaps both East and West with pure tactical scenarios. 1943/44 or 1944/45 Eastfront or 1944 Normandy title or Pacific might be attractive to open up a new theatre. Lack of strategic bombing due to engine limitations don´t help in the long run until they develop a new game engine. The engine right now isn´t even capable to compete with CloD with regards to number of planes rendered. All else is unlikely to pay the bills. There is a reason why in 30 years flight sim history we have seen a focus to those WW2 theatres.

Edited by sevenless

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7 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Korea could be a map, MiG and Sabre for quite some time before anything else is added. Already you have a valid historical scenario that DCS lacks.

 

MiG vs Sabre is just too good to ignore forever.

 

 

 

Not just MiG-15 and Sabre as we have Po-2 and (P)F-51 already, both of which just need new skins to fit a Korean map. 

 

6 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

A BoX-based Korea Sim wouldn't be a standalone-affair, but a title within a family.

If the developers act smartly, they could put up 2-3 aircraft on each side that can be used on a late-war WW2 title, too.

 

That is actually a great advantage.

 

Some could be based on existing assets to save time too - Il-10, Yak-9, La-7, A-26, Sea Fury. Just off the top of my head. 

The list of late WWII/Korean War aircraft is huge. 

 

46 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

I agree. If they need more time for Japanese info/data translation or research, they can always make an first try for naval operations with the Royal Navy carriers during Italy Invasion. :)

 

Both of these (Royal Navy and Italy) would be my preference though. Italy ‘43 is such a perfect fit and offers so many options. 

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8 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Korea could be a map, MiG and Sabre for quite some time before anything else is added. Already you have a valid historical scenario that DCS lacks.

 

MiG vs Sabre is just too good to ignore forever.

 

 

Aww I was hoping for F 84 

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7 hours ago, 15[Span.]/JG51Spartan said:

Would Korean only attack American and Korean buyers? Would Europeans be interested? My advise ...  make a  poll before risking a business decision ...

I would not buy Korea expansion and it's jets same as i didn't bought TC, it's not direction of the game i support.

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

And he didn't rule anything out and he mentions that he plans to do Pacific next and not do the mediterranean at that point (which was two years ago...).

 

Your tester colleague seems to disagree. 

 

 

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I would for sure buy into Korea but after reading many posts here and on the Russian forum I am heart broken a tad. My Grandfather served in Korea and I love to get any form of history from that time. The way I can see it being supported is by selling it as a $40 pack with just the F86, MiG15 and the Korea map as a side project. The filler planes can come in other packs more likely supported by the community IE: Late WWII Russian front or American front. The other jets that served in Korea like the Meteor, F84, and P80 could be collectors. 

 

I would support anything 1C builds. Italy 42-44, Aleutians 41-43, Midway 41, Guadalcanal 41-44, Normandy 40-44, Okinawa 44-45, Korea 50-53, Berlin 45, ... you name it.

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I for one think that Korea would be a fantastic addition to the IL-2 GB experience, we've already preceded WW2 with the first Great War, Why not show off the next step in air combat post war? If the tech is there (Interest surely will be, doesn't matter if the LuftLARPers won't buy it.)

 

As a Historian and aviation enthusiast the Korean War is one of the conflicts that shaped the 20th century but it's criminally underrepresented in media, flight sims especially considering the legendary status of the 2 stars of the show.

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10 hours ago, sevenless said:

There is a reason why in 30 years flight sim history we have seen a focus to those WW2 theatres.

 

Because developers are always developing more of the same.

With WW2 vanishing from the daily consciousness, we can finally get beyond gramps' old war-stories and focus on the things that are interesting.

 

Korea would serve greatly here. There's something for everybody in this theater.

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14 minutes ago, /top_lad/CaptainJack said:

I for one think that Korea would be a fantastic addition to the IL-2 GB experience, we've already preceded WW2 with the first Great War, Why not show off the next step in air combat post war? If the tech is there (Interest surely will be, doesn't matter if the LuftLARPers won't buy it.)

 

As a Historian and aviation enthusiast the Korean War is one of the conflicts that shaped the 20th century but it's criminally underrepresented in media, flight sims especially considering the legendary status of the 2 stars of the show.

 

Well, Il2 is not going to be short of inspiration for things that they can do to to add into their great battle series. I don't even think they need to be blockbuster titles to sell well, although perhaps that helps to bring in new players.

It could be a Battle of Malta, with just a few Gloucester Gladiators, faith, hope and charity defending the island in 1940 and I would still be all over it, or any other obscure title, and I think perhaps most of the existing community would have a lot of fun with it.

 

Pacific appeals to me for two reasons. Catching the wire on an Aircraft Carrier, in various weather conditions, and states of plane damage. And a very interesting plane set, modeled with the IL2 fidelity that we have come to know and love.

Korea appeals for the same reasons.

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I do not understand why many are so negative to easternfront. It offers short flights to action low altitude and types that did not have range for other theatres. And all this is what actually take place in servers. 

Many also seems to prey on new things instead of enjoying what is there already. 

I do not want to sound judging, I am like that myself many times. In order to make a good foundation the need for improving and evolve what we have is greater than getting new toys

Edited by LuseKofte
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I wouldn't be a huge fan of Korea either - although it's true that this location has received less attention. Nevertheless I think that you don't have to tear yourself apart like that.
In a few months we will hopefully see where the journey goes.

Even if the next one doesn't go to the eastern Front or Pacific (I still believe and dream in it),  I will be happy.

Although there are some limits with the current airplanes on the current sites, there are some types that could still come into the game.
Concerning the current limitations of the engine it remains to wait and see what will change.

But sooner or later ( which I am personally believe) we may see B17s etc. as well as naval maps in the next few years. But what will come until then remains more or less open.

 

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