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stupor-mundi

Bumping into mystery transparent obstacles.

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Maybe some light can be shed on the issue of invisible obstacles?

A number of candidate explanations spring to mind. When driving around certain types of buildings, such as churches with rounded-off corners, it is as if there is, with regards to the collision model, a larger, cubic church there.

When you bump into an invisible obstacle in a very crumpled topography, it's tempting to think it might be a discontinuity, an error in the model, a polygon sticking out.

But when the same happens as you drive over perfectly level ground, you begin to wonder whether that's really it.

These obstacles aren't just infuriating because immersion wise, they are the equivalent of a huge frameless glass pane that you crash into, jogging. In terms of the virtual physics they are just as damaging to your tank as the next solid object. You may have to respawn due to a broken drivetrain, a killed crew memeber, or your tank having flipped over (yes that happened).

If it's the case that those obstacles are terrain errors, is it safe to assume that the much finer grained tank maps will fix the issue? If the cause is something else?

 

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At this point I'm impressed that Tank Crew works as seamlessly as it does. I was kind of expecting issues like this given the priority that the engine has placed on aircraft (for good cause) and only just now starting to venture into this area.

 

I'm not sure the cause of these issues but what you say makes a lot of sense to me and I suspect they will be things slowly ironed out over time.

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4 hours ago, J5_Baeumer said:

Suspect these are objects the mission builder has not coded/removed properly.

 

This would explain a lot about them, like their distribution, which isn't random, but can't easily be linked to topographical traits.

Overall I'm happy that the general consensus seems to be that it's a bug of some sort, not a feature. I had this nagging doubt, fearing it might be a feature.

 

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I've been surprised a couple of times when shooting at an enemy by having my round stopped by a tree or a bush. I know it was mentioned that this was included in the game now but I guess I'd never expect the trees like we have in the game to stop a tank round. Maybe a massive sequoia but anything smaller would seem likely to be blown to pieces or at least allow the projectile to pass through.

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Yep, I've bumped into some invisible stuff. But it's still early and overall, I love Tank Crew. It will only get better as development goes on.

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The thing I hate worst, Stupor, is bumping into YOU on the field of battle on opposite sides!  :hunter:

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One more thing, the ai guns on airfields and the searchlights shoot and glow trough mountains now. Anyone else seen this? 

 

Looking south over Gelendzhik-3 airfield from air (kuban 1522.7), searchlights going thru the mountain North of it. (sorry for the bad picture, tried to highlight the mountain, the coastline and light.

LycktaGenomBerg.png

LycktaGenomBerg2.png

Edited by KARAYA1
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1 hour ago, KARAYA1 said:

One more thing, the ai guns on airfields and the searchlights shoot and glow trough mountains now. Anyone else seen this? 

 

Looking south over Gelendzhik-3 airfield from air (kuban 1522.7), searchlights going thru the mountain North of it. (sorry for the bad picture, tried to highlight the mountain, the coastline and light.

 

A bigger issue is that they see through foliage and structures. Your vehicle might be behind a forested area or building, but they'll continue to engage your position when they shouldn't be able to see you. Kinda reminds of me of ArmA with regards to the all seeing all knowing AI.

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Yes that is a bit annoying, but this  is new for me, I have at least never seen it before.

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Ai wall hacking has been a long standing issue as far as I recall with all the IL2 series but as up until now all they were required to do was look up to the skies I am hopeful that it will be addressed. 

 

May require an additional property added to the ground assets to afford imposed blindness on our AI chums.

 

not so sure about what is causing the Stealth wood but I guess the test will be the 'dedicated tank map' 

 

 

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On 10/9/2018 at 1:59 PM, KARAYA1 said:

One more thing, the ai guns on airfields and the searchlights shoot and glow trough mountains now.

 

The searchlights are fairly new I believe, I wouldn't be too surprised by this.

 

But regarding the AI guns, are you sure? It's always been an annoying ability of theirs to be able to shoot without line of sight, but I was under the impression that the shot itself was collision-checked. I.e. they would shoot at you over a slight hill, if the ballistics allowed for it (the arc).

 

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Yes, try to approach Bagerovo airfeald in Kuban map (0507.3) as a german tank. Airfield are elevated and if you go near from the south the ai shoot you trough the ground.

Edited by KARAYA1

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Well having spent something like nearly a week editing and learning the editor, they do demonstrate an annoying habit of being able to know where you are at all times. That said they are pretty poor shots as a compensation :) They will get you eventually but the miss more times than they hit. I can see ways to artificially blind them but it would be nice to have more control of their behaviours in the advanced section of the assets. 

 

I played around with artillery and it would be nice if they could shoot more realistically currently the howitzers when given an area of attack simply shoot through the woods using direct line of site. I haven't investigated it much more than that and I am having to trawl through the editor thread in order to learn ways to make them behave more realistically on ground targets but that said this was never intended to be a land war simulator so issues are bound to be there. 

 

What will be nice will be to see how they plan to tweak this going forward

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The buildings have a simple vertex collision cube separate from the texture's depth detail.  The size of this box, the collision model, is the largest dimension of the building, so if there is a large roof eave (overhang) there will be a big difference between the visible side of the building and the collision point.  When targeting around buildings you need to be aware of the eaves and take care you don't fire under them as they will set off an HE or slow your AP, only fire around the widest part of the building.  The small stairs in front of buildings usually aren't collidable.  Other things like carts and gun emplacements get blown up and disappear but their vertex collision model is still there to collide with.

 

Edit:  Damaged buildings are notorious for allowing massive sight/fire lines through them but, again, the collision cube is still in the way.

Edited by chuter

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5 hours ago, chuter said:

The buildings have a simple vertex collision cube separate from the texture's depth detail.  The size of this box, the collision model, is the largest dimension of the building, so if there is a large roof eave (overhang) there will be a big difference between the visible side of the building and the collision point.  When targeting around buildings you need to be aware of the eaves and take care you don't fire under them as they will set off an HE or slow your AP, only fire around the widest part of the building.  The small stairs in front of buildings usually aren't collidable.  Other things like carts and gun emplacements get blown up and disappear but their vertex collision model is still there to collide with.

 

Edit:  Damaged buildings are notorious for allowing massive sight/fire lines through them but, again, the collision cube is still in the way.

 

A good point about the eaves, and also interesting about the carts, that they disappear when blown up but with regards to the collision model, are still present.

The dreaded invincible cart that will f*** up your tank if you run into it. I will add the invisible invincible cart to my list of possible phantom objects.

I'm painfully aware of the discrepancies that occur between what you see and the collision model, once buildings are blown up. But my experience when driving through undamged town areas, for instance in Kerch, was quite similar. There are spots where you can't drive between two buildings for instance.

 

But in this thread I was mostly interested in those obstacles which you encounter, where no visible clue exists that might justify them. I'm increasingly convinced by Baeumer's explanation that the mission builder might leave them behind.

It seems to me they often occur in groups, and they seem most likely at the edge of the forest, and in clearings in the forest. I've never used the mission builder, so I'm wondering whether placing objects in the forest, and then removing them, leaves clearings behind.

 

If not, maybe the edge of the forest is just an attractive location for someone creating a mission, to maybe place objects, and then change their mind and remove them again? At any rate, I rarely ever bump into invisible obstacles when driving through an open field ...

 

 

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I've wondered if there sometimes aren't just discrepancies between the forest texture models and forest collision models,  everything just simply not lining up.  If that were the case, tho, you'd expect to be able to drive through the odd tree now and then, but nobody knows because nobody just takes off into every tree they come across.  Maybe the next time I hit an invisible "tree" I may just scoot around the area looking for a matching hologram tree.

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