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von_Tom

2080 and 2080 Ti

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I've tested in QMB - me and 7 friendlies v 8 Ju52s with overcast cloud.  CPU never gets high at all (i7-8700k at 4.9) .  GPU hits 100% a lot and is running high 80% a lot.  I'm a bit surprised at that but I kinda like the eye candy and don't want to lose that.

 

Regardless, we'll see what real world use shows.

 

von Tom

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34 minutes ago, von_Tom said:

CPU never gets high at all (i7-8700k at 4.9)

Don´t trust the CPU% load. It is a meaningless number. Even the % Core load as well.

36 minutes ago, von_Tom said:

GPU hits 100% a lot and is running high 80% a lot. 

What graphic settings? What GPU? What SteamVR SS?

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24 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

Don´t trust the CPU% load. It is a meaningless number. Even the % Core load as well.

What graphic settings? What GPU? What SteamVR SS?

 

Unfortunately I have to check something some kind of monitor program as I cannot watch the CPU doing its thing.

 

Graphics -

 

EVGA FTW 1080 - driver current as at 2 weeks ago

1.1 via OTT

Ultra graphics

Shadows = high

Mirrors = complex

Distant landscape = x4

Horizon draw 100km

Landscape filter = sharp

Grass = ultra

Clouds = high

AA = 4

SSAO = on

HDR = off

Sharpen = on

Use 4k textures = on

 

von Tom

Edited by von_Tom

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On 9/24/2018 at 7:12 AM, von_Tom said:

 

Unfortunately I have to check something some kind of monitor program as I cannot watch the CPU doing its thing.

 

Graphics -

 

EVGA FTW 1080 - driver current as at 2 weeks ago

1.1 via OTT

Ultra graphics

Shadows = high

Mirrors = complex

Distant landscape = x4

Horizon draw 100km

Landscape filter = sharp

Grass = ultra

Clouds = high

AA = 4

SSAO = on

HDR = off

Sharpen = on

Use 4k textures = on

 

von Tom

Hi, what your frame rate is like in the VR, I could not set it as high as yours here even with 1080 TI

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On 9/21/2018 at 5:27 PM, Alonzo said:

 

I thought that, but if you look at the in-game render timings, the IL2 application is spending a lot of time before handing off to the GPU to complete the frame. Try running Oculus Debug Tool, set Visible Hud to 'performance' and then the mode to 'App Render Timing'. On my rig the app (IL2) was using 9-10ms most of the time. We only have 11ms in order to maintain 90fps, so if IL2 itself takes longer than 11ms there's no way to maintain 90fps no matter how fast your GPU. Try looking at this in different conditions (heavy clouds vs not):

 

image.png.76290d284b88da42d44690b3f51cb1fa.png

I can confirm that it seems like il2 isnt optimised especially in vr. i recently upgrated my system to a 8086k (no OC yet), 1080ti (no OC), 8GB 3200, Samsung 970ssd, Lenovo Explorer.

I can honestly say that i am disapointed of the way il2 performs, and i am not talking about crazy, unrealistic expectations regarding my settings.

i tried low, balanced, high and although low gives 90fps most of the time, even at balanced i see frequent fps dips, even into the 40s!! (when enemy goes down) High settings are even worse, 90fps arent even achieved most of the time.

Before the Upgrade i had a i5 4690k (4,4ghz)m, GTX970, SSD, 8GB, oculus rift.

For me THE main factor for Immersion are buttery 90fps, not graphical candy. I cant stand stuttering movements, double images etc. 

With my old setup i was able to play, at least in 4vs4 quick missions, 90fps most of the time, balanced settings, no AA, no SS (66%). Given that my 970 wasnt the strongest i had to go for Dynamic Resolution Factor of 0,5 (heavy smoke trails in dogfights etc.). But the fps were great, i enjoyed dogfighting, flying with 90fps.

After my upgrade i expected (with that top notch system, expect maybe RAM), an performance improvement. Again, no "crazy" settings. Just high, normal shadows, Dynamic Resolution 1.0, Steam SS 80% for the Lenovo Explorer, no AA > rarely 90fps ins sight! Going down to balanced, setting ss to 66%, finally 90fps, but still horrible low fps at times.

Checked CPU, GPU temperatures, load, nothing concerning. I am really disappointed and can say at this point - Hardware isnt the only limiting factor here!

try to change the Lenovo Explorer for an Rift within the next days, will do some further testing, but at this point i am sure there is a major issue, that isnt hardware related.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, ironk79 said:

I can confirm that it seems like il2 isnt optimised especially in vr. i recently upgrated my system to a 8086k (no OC yet), 1080ti (no OC), 8GB 3200, Samsung 970ssd, Lenovo Explorer.

 

With that rig you should reach 90fps at High with no major problems

Some advice:

 

- run the performance test just to measure performance before/after a change in hardware/software/settings

- Enable TurboBoost in your BIOS so your CPU will reach 5.0GHz

- read this https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/34107-items-to-review-if-you-have-low-performance-in-il-2-vr-test/

- put first clouds/mirrors/shadows to off or low to start with. Then increase later.

- I saw you have also 1.1 Pixel density in Oculus debug tool. The SS should be put just in place (or in ODT, or n OTT or in SteamVR)

- realize that WMR has a system (equivalent to ASW) to put 45fps if you are just a bit lower that 90fps. Don was commenting that in the performance thread.

 

 

On 9/24/2018 at 1:12 AM, von_Tom said:

Mirrors = complex

 

I think mirror at complex could load the GPU more than needed. I really don´t know how Shadows, Clouds, Mirror (and possibily other settings) load more the GPU. Nobody has studied that in an objetive way.

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will try your checklist when i have the Oculus, maybe that can make things clearer.

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3 hours ago, III./JG5_ppph said:

Hi, what your frame rate is like in the VR, I could not set it as high as yours here even with 1080 TI

 

 

Around 45fps in a Rift.

 

von Tom

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6 hours ago, ironk79 said:

I can confirm that it seems like il2 isnt optimised especially in vr. i recently upgrated my system to a 8086k (no OC yet), 1080ti (no OC), 8GB 3200, Samsung 970ssd, Lenovo Explorer.

 

I have the same CPU as you, and found that I need to overclock the snot out of it to get good framerates on IL2 on my GTX 1070. Scroll up a bit, I posted about a number of the tweaks I've tried. If you do OC the CPU (and RAM, and uncore clock, and AVX rate....) make sure to do at least a brief test using Prime95 to make sure your CPU is running ok. There's one user here who was OC'ing but then at a certain point pushed it too far and saw an actual framerate *drop* because the OC was too much.

 

Currently I have my 8086k running at 5.1ghz @ 1.36 volts, AVX-0, ring ratio (uncore) 47, 3200mhz RAM OC'd to 3466 with standard XMP timings. It's too bloody hot so I either need a better cooler or to back it down to 5.0ghz again. My IL2 settings are Balanced, medium shadows, simple mirrors, 4x landscape detail, 100km horizon, no AA, no sharpen. Oh and a desktop graphics window size 720x480 (it does make a tiny difference).

 

If things are running slow, I would definitely back down settings inside IL2 *first* and reduce Oculus/Steam supersample *second* -- the SS is done entirely by the GPU once the frames are sent there by IL2 so it should be 100% on your GPU. All the other stuff IL2 still needs CPU for. 

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I can tell you guys this these setting seemed to work absolutely fantastic with my setup.

 

High preset

High shadows

Simple mirrors

3x landscape

100km distance

I believe 4x aa could be 2x

THE LOWEST GRASS SETTING THIS ONES A KILLER I was doing testing in SP with 8 planes, I went from dips into the 50's looking certain ways to more or less steady 90

No SSAO

No HDR

Sharpening on

4k text

High Clouds

I believe that's all of them. The grass setting absolutely hammers the frame rate. Also the option for scenery distance in the game settings is set to 50k

Also 100% SS in steam VR for spotting reasons.

 

Also the visual effects like smoke and whatnot even debris and leak trails have a huge performance hit in this game, it's crazy how hard they hit the frame rates.

 

I was playing with these last night and had some really good performance online. The picture was sharp and clear in the oculus.

Edited by 15th_JonRedcorn

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6 hours ago, Alonzo said:

Currently I have my 8086k running at 5.1ghz @ 1.36 volts, AVX-0, ring ratio (uncore) 47, 3200mhz RAM OC'd to 3466 with standard XMP timings.

 

Hey, that´s a good rig. I wonder if you could just run the becnhmark one more time but using the settings of the benchmark. So other people with similar rig could know what should expect.

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Got my rift yesterday and did some testing. the things that changed from the bad performance before are that i activated "intel enhanced turbo" in Bios, swapped Lenovo Explorer for Rift, Power Target GPU to max. No OC yet.

I set Steam VR to 90%, no ASW,  Balanced, 4xAA, no HDR, Shadows low, 70km, 2x Landscape., no Hud

Since i play with a tweaked mod, i tweaked forrest draw distance to 4 (high preset = 3 / Ultra = 5), "Forrest Detail" to 0.8 (everything under 1 switched to low res Trees, very good for low level flight over dence Forrests).

 

So far the result is very satisfying, 90fps most of the time, testd in 6vs6.

Will try to replicate 15th_JonRedcorn stated settings, to see were it gets me. But so far its a night and day difference compared to before, although game setting themself didnt change much.

But one weird issues still remains. At times fps drop hard for a few seconds (about 5s in low 40s), but no reason to determine why. When that happened (6vs6) no action infront of me, , so basically nothing damanding at least that i could see. in other instances i see 8 planes in on Picture in hard dogfighting, shooting, desintegrating - steady 90fps.

What can cause these drops? Background Physics calculations?

 

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3 hours ago, ironk79 said:

Got my rift yesterday and did some testing. the things that changed from the bad performance before are that i activated "intel enhanced turbo" in Bios, swapped Lenovo Explorer for Rift, Power Target GPU to max. No OC yet.

I set Steam VR to 90%, no ASW,  Balanced, 4xAA, no HDR, Shadows low, 70km, 2x Landscape., no Hud

Since i play with a tweaked mod, i tweaked forrest draw distance to 4 (high preset = 3 / Ultra = 5), "Forrest Detail" to 0.8 (everything under 1 switched to low res Trees, very good for low level flight over dence Forrests).

 

So far the result is very satisfying, 90fps most of the time, testd in 6vs6.

Will try to replicate 15th_JonRedcorn stated settings, to see were it gets me. But so far its a night and day difference compared to before, although game setting themself didnt change much.

But one weird issues still remains. At times fps drop hard for a few seconds (about 5s in low 40s), but no reason to determine why. When that happened (6vs6) no action infront of me, , so basically nothing damanding at least that i could see. in other instances i see 8 planes in on Picture in hard dogfighting, shooting, desintegrating - steady 90fps.

What can cause these drops? Background Physics calculations?

 

Ok so the settings I posted get me pretty bad drops at low heights, think it was the shadows causing the issues, but on medium shadows you lose a ton of graphical fidelity. I know that when flying over trees with high shadows you will see large frame drops into the 50's. It's a real bummer, the difference between high and medium shadows is one of the biggest to me. Graphics wise and performance. I want near 90fps constantly, anything less and I don't like it.

Edited by 15th_JonRedcorn

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2 minutes ago, 15th_JonRedcorn said:

Ok so the settings I posted get me pretty bad drops at low heights, think it was the shadows causing the issues, but on medium shadows you lose a ton of graphical fidelity. I know that when flying over trees with high shadows you will see large frame drops into the 50's. It's a real bummer, the difference between high and medium shadows is one of the biggest to me. Graphics wise and performance. I want near 90fps constantly, anything less and I don't like it.

Yeah, 90fps is a must for me, especially with a high end system. Shadows are indeed very very demanding.

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23 minutes ago, ironk79 said:

Yeah, 90fps is a must for me, especially with a high end system. Shadows are indeed very very demanding.

Hell even in 2d mode I was getting quick drops over certain areas maxed out, into the 30's, this games very resource heavy, my computer isn't exactly a slouch.

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I think since we have a new patch we might need to re-bench, I'm not even sure the old tracks will work (am not at home so can't test). The patch notes specifically mention improvements to the vehicle damage physics to reduce CPU requirement -- that might help a ton for removing VR stutters.

 

@ironk79 the mod you use for tweaked forests -- is that allowed on multiplayer servers usually, or it's mostly a single player mod? Migoto works on MP because it's 'just' tweaking shaders and they allow it (or MP servers can't even tell the mod is enabled, more likely).

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@Alonzo, honestly i dont know but iassume its not MP from the post of other users in said mod tread. And i dont play MP at this point, maaaaybe in the future.

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Had the time on the weekend to test an play, did a little OC of my RAM (3200> 3400 and 1080ti), for some reason the fps are now what i expected in the beginning, after my HW Upgrade.

SS@100%, High settings, 4AA, shadows low, - 90fps , even Ultra gives 90 fps for most of the time. Carreer is a bit more demanding, but overall gameplay is very decent now.

Before that, even with balanced setting frequent dips into 70s and even 40s, something wasnt right, but i cant really tell what.

 

 

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Not sure if anyone got the 2080 Ti now and gave it a good run already? hopefully we can have a first hand review soon.

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1 minute ago, III./JG5_ppph said:

Not sure if anyone got the 2080 Ti now and gave it a good run already? hopefully we can have a first hand review soon.

 

Still in waiting mode for my EVGA RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra.

May be a while yet.

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no worries, even there is any good news from your end on the VR performance, I would have to be patient to buy one anyway. In Australia, the supply seems to be really scarce. Out of stock is everywhere for the new 20 series.

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7 hours ago, III./JG5_ppph said:

Not sure if anyone got the 2080 Ti

in the performance thread there a person with a 2080Ti, but he is having problems with fps.

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On 10/2/2018 at 3:32 AM, chiliwili69 said:

in the performance thread there a person with a 2080Ti, but he is having problems with fps.

 

Yeah, that's me. 

 

When I had my 1080 ti, there was a time I used to play with fairly high settings and get decent fps between 50 and 80. Then I didn't play for awhile. There were both Steam VR and IL-2 updates. Probably even windows updates. So I don't know what update messed things up. 

 

Then my 1080 ti would be pegged at 45 fps. Even if I lower everything to the lowest possible in-game settings it 45 fps. 

 

I bought the 2080 ti and I still have the same issue. I think it's a Steam VR issue. 

 

Project Cars 2 can run without Steam VR using Oculus SDK. I'm able to run PC2 at 1.5 ss now with stable 90fps. That wasn't possible with the 1080 ti. 

I wish I had benchmarked more games before installing the 1080 ti. 

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@BlackMambaMowTin what VR headset are you using atm? I am using VIVE PRO, with bombers the frame is around 45. but once you are up in the air, it gets much better around 80-90

Edited by III./JG5_ppph

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49 minutes ago, III./JG5_ppph said:

@BlackMambaMowTin what VR headset are you using atm? I am using VIVE PRO, with bombers the frame is around 45. but once you are up in the air, it gets much better around 80-90

 

I'm Oculus Rift

 

When I look at the app rendering times. I notice that the CPU rendering times are above 10 ms. I read somewhere that it needs to be blow 10ms. 

 

It looks like in Steam VR my CPU is under performing. 

 

I switched back to Oculus Home without the 2.0 Dash, and my CPU times got a little better and framerates improved a little. 

 

Now I'm looking at Overclocking my GPU. In attempting to overclock my GPU I notice that my motherboard bios is old. I'll try and update that first and then test again and then finally overclock. 

Edited by BlackMambaMowTin

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6 hours ago, BlackMambaMowTin said:

 

Yeah, that's me. 

 

When I had my 1080 ti, there was a time I used to play with fairly high settings and get decent fps between 50 and 80. Then I didn't play for awhile. There were both Steam VR and IL-2 updates. Probably even windows updates. So I don't know what update messed things up. 

 

Then my 1080 ti would be pegged at 45 fps. Even if I lower everything to the lowest possible in-game settings it 45 fps. 

 

I bought the 2080 ti and I still have the same issue. I think it's a Steam VR issue. 

 

Project Cars 2 can run without Steam VR using Oculus SDK. I'm able to run PC2 at 1.5 ss now with stable 90fps. That wasn't possible with the 1080 ti. 

I wish I had benchmarked more games before installing the 1080 ti. 

Sound like the Problem i had. New System, quite powerfull, but for some reason i had very poor performance, even at low SS, balanced settings. Frrequent dips into the 40s, stutter, barely 90fps most of the time.

Then from one day to another everything was fine, 90fps in high and even Ultra at 100%SS, 4xAA. Only thing i really touched was slight OC of my RAM an GPU. But i doubt the difference could be that huge.

Edited by ironk79

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7 hours ago, ironk79 said:

Sound like the Problem i had. New System, quite powerfull, but for some reason i had very poor performance, even at low SS, balanced settings. Frrequent dips into the 40s, stutter, barely 90fps most of the time.

Then from one day to another everything was fine, 90fps in high and even Ultra at 100%SS, 4xAA. Only thing i really touched was slight OC of my RAM an GPU. But i doubt the difference could be that huge.

 

What I'm learning (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the GPU + CPU render time has to be below 11 ms.

 

So if your CPU is taking 10 ms and your GPU 2 ms, the frames won't be ready in time for 90 Hz refresh rate and you'll dip to ASW 45 fps. So, if you slightly improve your CPU performance by overclocking so that it renders in 9 ms instead of 10, then you'll suddenly jump from 45 fps to 90 fps with a mere 10% CPU performance increase. 

 

With my issue, it seems that for some reason CPU time has increased slightly and pushed me over the 11 ms destroying my fps.  

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3 hours ago, BlackMambaMowTin said:

What I'm learning (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the GPU + CPU render time has to be below 11 ms.

 

So if your CPU is taking 10 ms and your GPU 2 ms, the frames won't be ready in time for 90 Hz refresh rate and you'll dip to ASW 45 fps. So, if you slightly improve your CPU performance by overclocking so that it renders in 9 ms instead of 10, then you'll suddenly jump from 45 fps to 90 fps with a mere 10% CPU performance increase. 

 

With my issue, it seems that for some reason CPU time has increased slightly and pushed me over the 11 ms destroying my fps.  

 

I think you're mostly right, although I think the Rift does fancy interleaving so once the frame is finished on the CPU, the GPU also has 11ms to work on the frame, rather than just 2ms or whatever.

 

SteamVR is a bit of a culprit for wasting CPU, as is Oculus Home. If you do the mod to stop Oculus Home from running (force it to run as administrator, then it won't run automatically) that might help. Also check out the OpenComposite alternative to SteamVR -- this may save you a few CPU cycles:

 

 

IL-2 also responds well to overclocking your CPU and RAM, so you might want to try that to get the last few drops of performance out of the CPU.

 

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16 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

I think you're mostly right, although I think the Rift does fancy interleaving so once the frame is finished on the CPU, the GPU also has 11ms to work on the frame, rather than just 2ms or whatever.

 

SteamVR is a bit of a culprit for wasting CPU, as is Oculus Home. If you do the mod to stop Oculus Home from running (force it to run as administrator, then it won't run automatically) that might help. Also check out the OpenComposite alternative to SteamVR -- this may save you a few CPU cycles:

 

 

That trick to prevent Home from running is about to go away, unless some enterprising soul can come up with a new way to do so.

Home 1.31 - Rift Core 2.0 has started to roll out to all users now, will take a few days but the old Home will be no more.

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34 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

That trick to prevent Home from running is about to go away, unless some enterprising soul can come up with a new way to do so.

Home 1.31 - Rift Core 2.0 has started to roll out to all users now, will take a few days but the old Home will be no more.

 

I don't understand. With multiple cores why would the core that's running Oculus Home and SteamVR be the same that's running IL-2? 

Edited by BlackMambaMowTin

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39 minutes ago, BlackMambaMowTin said:

 

I don't understand. With multiple cores why would the core that's running Oculus Home and SteamVR be the same that's running IL-2? 

if you can assure the core affinity for each process in Windows then yes. But i haven't seen such functionality, hence OS kernel can send a request to the overloaded core whenever it pleases.

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1 hour ago, BlackMambaMowTin said:

 

I don't understand. With multiple cores why would the core that's running Oculus Home and SteamVR be the same that's running IL-2? 

 

Not sure  I understand the question so not sure if my answers will apply?

Rift Core 2.0 is the name for the new Oculus Home software.

 

Also even though IL-2 requires Steam VR, the Oculus runtime is still required to communicate between Steam VR and Oculus Rift. 

Even with the old trick of setting the classic Oculus Home to run as admin, it still communicated through Oculus Server and Steam VR both.

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26 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Not sure  I understand the question so not sure if my answers will apply?

 

I'm just wondering why Oculus Home or Steam VR are stealing cycles from the core that's busy doing the IL-2 sim calculations. I would expect that Steam VR and Home would be using a different core than Steam VR and Home. 

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1 hour ago, moosya said:

if you can assure the core affinity for each process in Windows then yes. But i haven't seen such functionality, hence OS kernel can send a request to the overloaded core whenever it pleases. 

 

Apparently you could set it via the task manager -- https://www.windowscentral.com/assign-specific-processor-cores-apps-windows-10

 

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Sold my 1070 for 320 euro and now trying to decide between a new Evga black 1080ti 750 euro or the Zotac 2080 amp edition 850 euro. I had nearly settled on the 1080ti but the prices are all over the place with the 2080 often cheaper. For the sake of being future proof and due to the price I`m leaning now towards the 2080 even though I might miss the 11 v 8gb vram.

 

Decisions, decisions.

Edited by Wulfen

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11 minutes ago, Wulfen said:

Sold my 1070 for 320 euro and now trying to decide between a new Evga black 1080ti 750 euro or the Zotac 2080 amp edition 850 euro. I had nearly settled on the 1080ti but the prices are all over the place with the 2080 often cheaper. For the sake of being future proof and due to the price I`m leaning now towards the 2080 even though I might miss the 11 v 8gb vram.

 

Decisions, decisions.

 

That's a tough decision. Performance wise I don't think there will be a lot of difference between those two cards, but have not seen too many reports yet from users with them in VR either.

I would say just go with your gut.

 

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12 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

That's a tough decision. Performance wise I don't think there will be a lot of difference between those two cards, but have not seen too many reports yet from users with them in VR either.

I would say just go with your gut.

 

I think 850 euro for the Zotac 2080 is quite good, 1080ti`s equal or exceed that on average. I could buy secondhand, but I tend to sell my GPU`s every 2 yrs and usually get a good price to offset the new purchase. I feel the 2080 would have more resale value in 2yrs than the 1080ti which will be quiet old tech by then.

 I`m close to pulling that trigger on the 2080 hoping that better driver and software support will have it pull away from the 1080ti in performance. Some VR benchmarks are showing a decent performance jump over the 1080ti with the 2080, and thanks to IL2 and DCS I only ever play in VR these days. I couldn't tell when was the last time I opened a 2d game.

Edited by Wulfen

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3 minutes ago, Wulfen said:

I think 850 euro for the Zotac 2080 is quite good, 1080ti`s equal or exceed that on average. I could buy secondhand, but I tend to sell my GPU`s every 2 yrs and usually get a good price to offset the new purchase. I feel the 2080 would have more resale value in 2yrs than the 1080ti which will be quiet old tech by then.

 I`m close to pulling that trigger in the 2080 hoping that better driver and software support will have it pull away from the 1080ti in performance. Some VR benchmarks are showing a decent performance jump over the 1080ti with the 2080, and thanks to IL2 and DCS I only ever play in VR these days. I couldn't tell when was the last time I opened a 2d game.

 

Yeah I have an EVGA RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra on pre-order and am very anxious to get it. Going to sell my 1080 Ti FTW3 as soon as I have it installed and am comfortable with it. 

Last time I played a 2d game was Jan 14th 2017.

 

Edited by dburne

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