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Me 262 Questions

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Hi guys!

 

As K4 topic is hot and as I'm hyped with Bodenplatte, I'd like to know what, when, where, why and how to use Me 262. How good and how bad it is as what to do and what don't.

 

Thank you!

Edited by 3./JG15_HansPhilipp

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4 minutes ago, 3./JG15_HansPhilipp said:

Hi guys!

 

As K4 topic is hot and as I'm hyped with Bodenplatte, I'd like to know what, when, where, why and how to use Me 262. How good and how bad it is as what to do and what don't.

 

Thank you!

 

It's best to let Conan answer:

 

th-id-oip-with-conan-the-barbarian-quote

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It's a bomber killer or fast attack plane.  In the former case it is a bit out of its element, as it was most useful for attacking formations of heavies.  As the latter is is pretty much unstoppable.  

 

It is not a dogfighter.  Victories over fighters are going to have to come from surprise.  With 4x30mm cannon it doesn't take many hits.  Just remember - never turn.  If he sees you and dodges, just fly away.

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1. What is the 262: The Me 262 is a Jumo 004 jet engine propelled fighter / fighter bomber of the German Luftwaffe.

2. When to use it: Always, especially when the german team outnumbers the allied 3:1 and you can enjoy total impunity.

3. Where to use it: Mainly in multiplayer to show off against your victims and become a topscoring skyknight.

4. How to use it: Press ''E'' to start engines.....

5. How good is it: B 17 pilots don't like it very much.

6. What 'don'ts': Meet the Red Tails.

 

 

 

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Edited by 6./ZG26_5tuka
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The dichotomy between the almost obscene closure speeds, and the low velocity of the MK108 shells should make combat really interesting.

 

Not answering your question, but have my opinion regardless (that's how the internet works, isn't it?). 

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After going through operational records books from 2TAF Me262s were mostly used against the Allies for recon or dropping anti-personnel bombs on airfields (2 per plane usually flying in a pair) from around 12,000ft. This is one of the situations where 122 Wing's Tempests would find fame - they would circle B.80 Volkel at 20,000ft and wait for the 262s to fly underneath them, 8,000ft below.

 

In terms of BoBp's campaign mode, expect to be hitting a lot of ground targets and then GTFO with those Jumos blazing.

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6 minutes ago, 3./JG15_HansPhilipp said:

I hope for more "complex" answers based in what we have in BoX.

 

 

 

Since we don't have it yet, you'll probably have to wait. 

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8 minutes ago, 3./JG15_HansPhilipp said:

I hope for more "complex" answers based in what we have in BoX.

 

 

 

What do you mean by "complex"? Multiplayer?

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Take bombs and full fuel and go fast for high points target and drop bombs on it before anyone is even able to protect it.

Then climb and wait betwen enemy base and that target and bnz anything you see. Or just fly over enemy base high and destryct most of enemy fighters wonting to get jet kill alowing your team to destroy ground targets that are not so protected then. 

If your alone look for traps and watch out for tempests and 51s, if your in group be bait and drag enemy to your frendsK4s or D9s, easy.

Prepare for it to be limited in numbers and take note on what mission you have it, and when it will be played, so you join fast enought to take it :) 

 

I gues youll have to wory about moving trottel to fast up down so you dont brake engine like you can in yak7s or p39s now, but with time youll get used to it.

Also do not land on base they know you take off, best just go for the furdest away base posible. Also if mission already started and its 30-40min running, be veary cearfule on taking of and climb as probably enemy will knw from what base you have 262s and will be waiting to get that sweat jucy jet kill, so if by any chance your alone and join on mission that already is running for some time and by any luck you still have 262s avilable be veary cearfule it could be a trap 😄

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1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

 

What do you mean by "complex"? Multiplayer?

 

Your first answer was informative, that's it.

 

As BoBp will haven't heavy bombers to attack,  262's pilots will need to use it as attackers, so how many bombs can Me262 carry? What i need to know about engine management to don't blow it up? How to evade of a high altitude attack from P51's? As a attacker aircraft loaded with bombs, will be 262 slow and will it need escort? There are many questions, experienced pilots and enthusiasts can explain about it.

Edited by 3./JG15_HansPhilipp

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2 minutes ago, 3./JG15_HansPhilipp said:
 

Your first answer was informative, that's it.

 

As BoBp will haven't heavy bombers to attack,  262's pilots will need to use it as attackers, so how many bombs can Me262 carry? What i need to know about engine management to don't blow it up? How to evade of a high altitude attack from P51's? As a attacker aircraft loaded with bombs, will be 262 slow and will it need escort? There are many questions, experienced pilots and enthusiasts can explain about it.

5

 

Sure. You get up to 2x 500kg bombs or 25x55mm R4M rockets if we get the A-2a version.

 

For engine management, practice in the P-39 and P-40 at not moving your throttle too quickly - otherwise, stick to the specs and you'll be fine ;)

 

To evade the P-51s just wind up the throttles and punch it to the deck - you're the fastest thing in the sky at any altitude so you'll still outrun them down in the weeds.

 

With bombs it'll be slower but it won't need escort.

 

 

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In 1946 it had smooky exost when near full power was used, (88 or 90% + i dont remenber exactly what percentage) so people wold usealy flew it at just below the point when that smooky exost would start so they dont tip in they are jet out of all other visable dots in area, dont know if that was correct or if BoBp model will have same ( dont see to high mixture lines from engine in here like it was in 1946 so maybe we will not see this also)

 

Even if bombs slow you down 50-100kmh your still faster at strait line then anything in game, but if your low other things can catch you if they dive on you realy fast, and then your basicly tosted as you cant outturn or outroll them, and they can have more speed for enought time to get your engine or two.

Edited by 77.CountZero

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IF you get into a turning battle you're in big trouble - you have two engines but they're explosive, and if you lose one of them you're not getting away from whatever's shooting at you. Something of a glass cannon in a "proper" dogfight, not really able to sustain damage that other fighters might escape with. Also, because you're a 262, Allied players will probably relish the chance to shoot you and commit harder than usual to taking you down once they engage you.

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Just now, Talon_ said:

IF you get into a turning battle you're in big trouble - you have two engines but they're explosive, and if you lose one of them you're not getting away from whatever's shooting at you. Something of a glass cannon in a "proper" dogfight, not really able to sustain damage that other fighters might escape with. Also, because you're a 262, Allied players will probably relish the chance to shoot you and commit harder than usual to taking you down once they engage you.

 

Yes people will probably say in chat where they get shoot down by jet and at what altitudes and where your going so youll have to be on look out, its good and bad, if your alone is bad if your in group its good as more kills for you and frends you dont have to look for just come to you :)

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I ask if Me 262 is a good option in planeset if BoBp will haven't heavy bombers.

I would like to fly it but probably not in this situation.

Edited by 3./JG15_HansPhilipp

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in 1946 on semihistorical df servers most people just avoid them after initial quriosity drained out, there was few veterans who would show up from time to time and rack up planty of kills in one flight, and rokies who would just get to be easy food for enemy as they would either colide with AI or human bombers or lose patience in bnz and try turn fight, most just use 109k4s or G10s.

If something doesent change i dont expect to have formations of AI bombers spawning in on DF servers like there so i doubt in BoBp youll be able to use it mutch in high alt attacks on A-20 or B-25 AI bombers, in SP yes you could do that.

 

And GA guys had better option in arado in 1946 (similar speed biger bombload and good rear gun ) on thouse missions that had 262s, but i guess here it will be used moere as effective GA then fighter for most players.

 

Engine managment was not demanding, it would overheat on to steap climbs or prolong turn fights from what i remenber. I dont know what rpm had i never look at that in this games i just look at tehnochat here and in 1946 also, only in clod i would fly by hearing my engine in E1 (i would not look at gauges no time for it in DF, sound of engine was more important with manual prop on E1s) but still would not look at ata or rpms so dont know what was normal for 262 in 46.

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36 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

Allied players will probably relish the chance to shoot you and commit harder than usual to taking you down once they engage you.

 

Yeah, not like now, where they'll chase you all the way back to your airfield if you let them... 😂

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Dying will be undermodelled.

And there are a million ways to die in a 262.

The real life loss-rates were atrocious - much because the training and procedures weren't in place back then.

 

The overall strategical situation (parts shortages, materials, allied air superiority) was just one part of the issue.

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23 minutes ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

 

Yeah, not like now, where they'll chase you all the way back to your airfield if you let them... 😂

 

Don't fly on Wings

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Introduction of the 262 to multiplayer should be well managed to create a level playing field.  It certainly won't be for everyone, but in the right hands and given advantageous circumstances it could easily prove unmatched

It should always have to fly with a  very limited fuel load so it is forced to fly purposeful missions rather than just loiter, clubbing baby seals as and when opportunity presents.  262's need to be forced into positions of vulnerability, they need to be part of an overall effort, supporting prop jobs with strategic goals while the K's and D's look after them when taking off or landing.  Icon servers make life too easy for 262 pilots allowing pilots to cruise around, choosing their moments at will, yes some/most might be rubbish shots and miss 90% of the time but at least they don't need to hang about to suffer the consequences.

 

Whatever happens it's sure to be fun and raise lots of debate, if not angst, from the chattering classes that inhabit these halls.

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11 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

Introduction of the 262 to multiplayer should be well managed to create a level playing field.  It certainly won't be for everyone, but in the right hands and given advantageous circumstances it could easily prove unmatched 

It should always have to fly with a  very limited fuel load so it is forced to fly purposeful missions rather than just loiter, clubbing baby seals as and when opportunity presents.  262's need to be forced into positions of vulnerability, they need to be part of an overall effort, supporting prop jobs with strategic goals while the K's and D's look after them when taking off or landing.  Icon servers make life too easy for 262 pilots allowing pilots to cruise around, choosing their moments at will, yes some/most might be rubbish shots and miss 90% of the time but at least they don't need to hang about to suffer the consequences.

 

Whatever happens it's sure to be fun and raise lots of debate, if not angst, from the chattering classes that inhabit these halls.

Come on. If you want "multilayer realism" then you could only spawn 1 German for 10 Allied plane. Just allow airfield attacks. Tempests overhead are much nastier than 262's.

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4 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

Introduction of the 262 to multiplayer should be well managed to create a level playing field.

 

If you want a level playing field, you need to restrict everyone to the same aircraft....and it certainly won't be for everyone :) I thought the whole point of having a variety of different (and correctly historically different), aircraft was part of the challenge, fun even, no?

 

I also think that the 262 would be a very challenging aircraft to totally dominate the best piston-engine fighters with as you will rely solely on the element of surprise. Sure it was effective as a heavy bomber interceptor, but we won't have the heavy bombers. It's likely to most potent in the ground attack role.

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Just limit the number of them available for the mission; anyone loitering with them for ages and score-padding rather than contributing to the war effort will just be harming their team

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19 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

If you want a level playing field, you need to restrict everyone to the same aircraft....and it certainly won't be for everyone :) I thought the whole point of having a variety of different (and correctly historically different), aircraft was part of the challenge, fun even, no?

 

I also think that the 262 would be a very challenging aircraft to totally dominate the best piston-engine fighters with as you will rely solely on the element of surprise. Sure it was effective as a heavy bomber interceptor, but we won't have the heavy bombers. It's likely to most potent in the ground attack role.

 

You misunderstand when I say "level playing field".  I certainly don't mean all aircraft should be the same. 

 

Wars, battles, have a purpose other than simply offering the opportunity of increasing ones personnal tally.  If the 262, indeed BoBp, is to be purposeful then it needs to reflect something of the operational realities other than just the best chance of flying around clubbing prop heads, with limited vulnerability.

 

In some respects it's a pity the large formations of heavies aren't included, flying across the map, success or failure affecting availability of supply.

Edited by HagarTheHorrible

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33 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

Just limit the number of them available for the mission; anyone loitering with them for ages and score-padding rather than contributing to the war effort will just be harming their team

 

The problem with that if one doesn't get the latest and greatest they leave.

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From 1946 experience, if I remember correctly I could run at 93% throttle max without over-heating the engines (except in a steep climb).

One hit and an engine will catch fire, gives you a short time to dive and put it out.

Surprisingly not a great climber, and takes a while to get up to speed.

Be very gentle with throttles, up and down. (Gonna be a nightmare for me used to slamming ww1 throttles around).

 

I can see it being a pest to some in MP, bit like a well flown Spad in RoF.

Don't try and turn it in anger - may look nimble but it turns like an oil tanker (on the sea).

I think the devs are deploying it in the spirit of Hitlers' insistance it be used for ground attack.

In reality it is a much better interceptor, and attacking those bomber formations at howevermany thousand feet was fun.. but often usually deadly !

Getting air kills might not be as easy as one might think.

 

Be interesting to see how it fits in...

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37 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

 

The problem with that if one doesn't get the latest and greatest they leave.

 

I think the kind of servers that will be limiting aircraft to make interesting and fair scenarios aren't the kind that want that sort of player anyway :P

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4 hours ago, 3./JG15_HansPhilipp said:

I ask if Me 262 is a good option in planeset if BoBp will haven't heavy bombers.

I would like to fly it but probably not in this situation.

 

There are still going to be medium bombers, which it was used against. 

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I guess it must be flown like a FW190: dont try to hard-turn fighting against the red ones, stay high and fast, pick your enemy carefully, dive and shot him, if you fail, dont start chasing him but recover altitude and maintain energy instead. 

Just as FW's, fighting a lone 262 is not so much of a threat, but when in (well organized) groups... then you are definitely toast.

 

Yeah, as I said, I find it similar to FW (similar on how you should fly it).

 

All of this is just IMO, of course.

 

But anyways, as others said, we still dont have it here, so all we can do is to assume according what was in real life.

 

Cant wait for it...

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Bomb your target and fly home. If you, by occasion cross the path of enemy bombers shoot them down. Avoid enemy fighters as the plaque except when you can surprise them and you haven´t been spotted.

 

Me 262 was designed to shoot down enemy 2 or 4 engined bomber formations or to act as uninterceptable delivery device for 2 bombs in a ground attack. If you do something else with it you will test your luck.

 

Fly straight and don´t turn. Speed is your friend and only advantage.

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Beware when diving or flying straight away from a P-38.  Players will be winging cannon at you from the nose up to 1000m behind you, because even one hit is probably going to wreck your day.

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Personally, I'm going to drop bombs on something then keep going fast in the same direction. There is no point in BoBp using the 262 for what it was originally designed; with the maps that we have and the total lack of high-altitude four-engined bombers you have to go along with Adolf and his flawed thinking. :dance:

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3 hours ago, EmerlistDavjack said:

Beware when diving or flying straight away from a P-38.  Players will be winging cannon at you from the nose up to 1000m behind you, because even one hit is probably going to wreck your day.

 

I have never had the impression that the 262 was a very fragile plane.  Even with just one engine it was still pretty fast.  Haven't heard tales of it falling apart under fire.  Most of the losses that I am aware of were either on approach or accidents.

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2 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

I have never had the impression that the 262 was a very fragile plane.  Even with just one engine it was still pretty fast.  Haven't heard tales of it falling apart under fire.  Most of the losses that I am aware of were either on approach or accidents.

 

Can the 262 fly on one engine ? Can it handle the adverse yaw ?

 

I was speaking with a long retired instructor who spent a lot of his career flying the Canberra (B-57 ?), especially in the early days, when the engines were less reliable.  Officially it could be flown on one engine, the reality, according to this instructor was quite different.

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6 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

Can the 262 fly on one engine ? Can it handle the adverse yaw ?

Yes. It can do very well so, even at 650+ km/h.

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I intend to fly it as a ground attack aircraft, just like Hitler wanted. A hit n run mission. 

It ain't a dogfighter and there will be no large bomber formations to attack, therefore one only have the ground attack role left. 

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28 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

 

Can the 262 fly on one engine ? Can it handle the adverse yaw ?

 

It could still climb on one engine. Wheter it could fly well on one engine I do not know - but its probably easier to do on a then a Prop job, since there is no prop torque and as there is plenty of thrust even on one engine.

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