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Macross

StarVR one "soon", allso for inviduals.

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Looks like it is really the Star of all VR headsets. That´s pretty good.

In the other hand, they just said that the business launch will be also available for individual, but most likely at business price!. So something like 1500$ or more...

 

With all Pimax, StarVR, XTAL, VivePro and cheap WMR devices around it is a fantastic competition for Oculus VR in PC. They put pressure on them right now, just before the Oculus Connect this September. They can not just ignore their competitors.

If Oculus doesn´t anounce something great for PC in OC, they will miss the crest of the wave.

 

SPECIAL SECTION FOR OCULUS EMPLOYEES (just in case they read this subforum)

HEY guys, wake up!!! 

Don´t abandon the PC VR users for another year!!  

We PC users don´t want all the Oculus Go or Santa Cruz stuff. We flight/space/racing seated simmers are a large community!!!.

We supported you at the rocky beginning. Don´t leave us behind all this social mobile push.

What is preventing Oculus to launch a CV2 for 2019??? Just the halfdome with a 4K resolution and without the mechanic short-focusing tech.

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Oculus/vive will be left behind, if they dont give us something good in next 12months..

Starvr will be everything we need, fov, resolution, eye tracking.. after i buy it, i dont even need to think about of my current oculus anymore.

Edited by Macross

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5 minutes ago, Macross said:

Oculus/vive will be left behind, if they dont give us something good in next 12months..

Starvr will be everything we need, fov, resolution, eye tracking.. after i buy it, i dont even need to think about of my current oculus anymore.

 

I don't think they consider themselves as competing with Oculus.

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We often hear of the next "Rift/Vive" killer.

 

I'll wait and see.

 

Plus, if its business based it may well be a bugger to use for home simming.

 

Nice to know about though :)

 

 

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What are the specs of this headset? Does it have a better resolution than the pimax 8k?

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5 hours ago, coconut said:

What are the specs of this headset? Does it have a better resolution than the pimax 8k?

 

StarVR has 1830 × 1464 per eye across 210 degrees.

Pimax 8K/5K has 2560 x 1440 per eye across 200 degrees.

Vive Pro has 1440 x 1600 per eye across 110 degrees.

Edited by scrapmetal

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I love VR and higher res its my priority, if we can get more than 110 degrees even better.

I would buy it as soon as it comes out.

I just hope the sweet spot is not a problem like in the Vive Pro, loved the resolution, kept it for 10 days or so and returned it because I hated to have to search for the sweet spot all the time, which was way to narrow.

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15 minutes ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

I love VR and higher res its my priority, if we can get more than 110 degrees even better.

I would buy it as soon as it comes out.

I just hope the sweet spot is not a problem like in the Vive Pro, loved the resolution, kept it for 10 days or so and returned it because I hated to have to search for the sweet spot all the time, which was way to narrow.

 

I hated it also.  A few days ago I bought one of the ready made GearVR kits (v4) from ebay and installed it on my vive pro.  IT IS AMAZING.  Believe the hype.

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11 hours ago, coconut said:

What are the specs of this headset? Does it have a better resolution than the pimax 8k?

Lower resolution, but the video mentions its sharper image due to better lenses or special lcd panels.

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The main advantage of Pimax 5K+/8K over the Rift or the VivePro will be just larger FOV (which is indeed good). Don´t expect to increase your spot or identification abilities.

 

Doing a ball park division the horizontal resolution in one eye per half of the FOV (the exact pixels per degree calculation will much more complex) we have:

 

RIFT: 1080/55= 19.6 ppd

VIVE PRO: 1440/55= 26.2 ppd (assuming it uses the screen as effectively as Rift which is not true)

PIMAX 5K+/8K: 2560/105= 24.3 ppd (assuming it uses the screen as effectively as Rift which we will need to check)

 

So the Pimax 5K+/8K  (and also StarVR) will not help in the ID&spot department. Just only a great FOV.

 

I think that in the Pimax 5K+/8K you can set several FOV profiles, so it will be a balance between great FOV versus more ppd (better ID/Spot). This will be another parameter to tune.

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25 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

So the Pimax 5K+/8K  (and also StarVR) will not help in the ID&spot department. Just only a great FOV.

Apparently it has a wide sweet spot, almost as big as gen-1 headsets entire FOV. That might help quite a bit in the spotting department.

 

27 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

I think that in the Pimax 5K+/8K you can set several FOV profiles, so it will be a balance between great FOV versus more ppd (better ID/Spot).

I don't think you can change the PPD without changing the resolution or lens. The more narrow FOV certainly uses less screen area.

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It looks like the Pimax 5K+ will have a higher PPD, because the panels are smaller. According to Martin, about 9%-10% more than the 8K. The Pimax 5k+/8K may even have higher PPD around the center than the Pro because the stretch across 200 degrees will not be linear and will be exaggerated towards the edges.

Edited by scrapmetal

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3 hours ago, coconut said:

That might help quite a bit in the spotting department.

Yes, it will help a bit. The larger sweet spot is a plus in the Pimax. You will not need to look at the center to spot or ID.

3 hours ago, coconut said:

The more narrow FOV certainly uses less screen area.

That is true for the 5K+ for sure. I don´t know then what would be the advantage of smaller FOV for 5K+. Better performance perhaps.

I wonder if the Pimax 8K is able maintain the 5K + resolution over a smaller FOV... 

3 hours ago, scrapmetal said:

will not be linear and will be exaggerated towards the edges.

Yeap! This will be good then. Any idea about this pixels per degree non linear distribution...

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5 hours ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

What did you buy? new lenses? I am not too good as a mechanic and probably ruin the Vive Pro if I try it.

They dont sell it ready with the new lenses?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEAR-VR-LENS-MOD-UPGRADE-KIT-V4-FOR-HTC-VIVE-VIVE-PRO-ULTRABASE-ADAPTERS-/323285586590

 

This is what you bought?

 

That’s it, and I can’t recommend it enough.

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2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Yes, it will help a bit. The larger sweet spot is a plus in the Pimax. You will not need to look at the center to spot or ID.

That is true for the 5K+ for sure. I don´t know then what would be the advantage of smaller FOV for 5K+. Better performance perhaps.

I wonder if the Pimax 8K is able maintain the 5K + resolution over a smaller FOV... 

Yeap! This will be good then. Any idea about this pixels per degree non linear distribution...

Because the panels are not curved, I reckon the resolution falloff at the edges is going to be greater for the Pimax 5K+/8K. So the center will benefit even more than the Vive or Rift.

http://doc-ok.org/?tag=htc-vive

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6 hours ago, scrapmetal said:

It looks like the Pimax 5K+ will have a higher PPD, because the panels are smaller. According to Martin, about 9%-10% more than the 8K. The Pimax 5k+/8K may even have higher PPD around the center than the Pro because the stretch across 200 degrees will not be linear and will be exaggerated towards the edges.

 

My understanding of what was written was the the 9% increase was the 5K Plus over the 5K, not the 8K.

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41 minutes ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

 

My understanding of what was written was the the 9% increase was the 5K Plus over the 5K, not the 8K.

The 8K is simply upscaling a 5K source. So both the 5K and 8K Pimaxs are fed the same resolution source material. I am assuming the 5K and 8K screens are the same dimensions.

Edited by scrapmetal
clarity

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15 hours ago, scrapmetal said:

 

StarVR has 1830 × 1464 per eye across 210 degrees.

Pimax 8K/5K has 2560 x 1440 per eye across 200 degrees.

Vive Pro has 1440 x 1600 per eye across 110 degrees.

 

I use Vive Pro.  I preordered a computer with a Nvidia RTX 2080ti GPU and plan top get a Pimax 8K when available.

 

However, from your stats, above, it seems my Vive Pro has more pixels in vertical display than the Pimax 8K, 1600 to 1440 per eye so I think maybe you have reversed the Vive Pro figures.  Perhaps it should read 1600 x 1440. 

 

Horizontally the Pimax displays 200 degrees rather than Vive Pro 110 degrees (55% of the Pimax coverage) and considering that I notice your stats for the Pimax should be almost double the pixels of the Vive Pro just to have the same visual acuity.  We'd probably expect the Pimax to have more, maybe even double the pixel density as the next-generation of VR device but you've listed 2560 pixels as the horizontal count for the Pimax 8.  Were the Vive Pro FOV to be widened from 110 degrees to 200 degrees (roughly x 1.8) with the same screen it has now it would have (depending on which of the above figures we use, for the horizontal display, 1600 or 1440) either  2,880 or 2,592 pixels.

 

So given your stats, above, the Pimax 8K will have almost twice the field of view but NO increase in visual acuity.  I hope that isn't the case.  My big problem is identifying friend from foe when you first see distant aircraft.  I don't mind buying new VR technology as long as it makes the picture more sharply focused. That is why I replaced my Rift with a Vive Pro.  It was expensive but it noticeably improved visual acuity in the central area of vision.

 

So, will the Pimax 8K improve visual acuity over the Vive Pro or just double the field of view?

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On 9/5/2018 at 8:25 PM, scrapmetal said:

The 8K is simply upscaling a 5K source. So both the 5K and 8K Pimaxs are fed the same resolution source material. I am assuming the 5K and 8K screens are the same dimensions.

 

Yes the inputs are the same but the panel native resolutions are not.  The 8K is 4096×2160 and the 5K and 5K Plus is 2560x1440.  I think the 8K and 5K panels are the same size, but the 5K+ panel is physically smaller, thus a higher ppi than the 5K by ~9%.

 

Quote from Heliosurge:

Quote

It says the 5k+ has +9% increased sharpness. Meaning likely +9% more screen utilation over base 5k. (Smaller screen)

 

Source: http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/shanghai-surprise-neoskynet-directors-cuts/7699/60

 

EDIT 9/7/18:  The above is confirmed by PIMAX:

Quote

The differences between 5K and 5K Plus are: 

Standard 5K - unveiled during Kickstarter roadshows 

5K Plus - new panel, PPI improved by 9%, sharpness enhanced, unveiled at the Berlin backer meetup 

Will provide both 5K and 5K Plus retail versions

 

Edited by VBF-12_Stick-95

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1 hour ago, TP_Sparky said:

it seems my Vive Pro has more pixels in vertical display than the Pimax 8K

The figures are correct. The VivePro has more pixels vertically (1600) than the Pimax8K(1444). But in my opinion the VivePro is wasting a considerable portion of the vertical area in IL-2:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/36162-vivepro-vs-rift-for-il2/?do=findComment&comment=615505

 

1 hour ago, TP_Sparky said:

So, will the Pimax 8K improve visual acuity over the Vive Pro or just double the field of view?

Yes, this is exactly what I was saying. In my opinion, in theory the Pimax5K+/8K will not improve the visual acuity of the VivePro.

The important factor for visual acuity (calculated above) is the "Pixel Per Degree" PPD.

In the practice, we will need to take pictures through the lenses to check how the visual acuity is improved. In the same way I did for Rift and VivePro:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/36627-resolution-tests-rift-vs-vivepro-updated-with-camera-through-lenses-pics/?do=findComment&comment=618137

 

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Holy shit the vive pro looks so much better than the rift. Wish I had another 800+ to burn on a new headset. If you could get the lighthouses with it for that price I'd get one, not spending 1k+ for it though.

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I recommend Samsung's Odyssey. Reasons:

+ Lower price, can be bought by Europeans via bigapplebuddy or similar services

+ best screen/lens combination on the market

+ easy and quick to set up, inside-out tracking with 2 cams and inertia sensors (tracks better than the Rift)

+ balanced fit on the head, not front-heavy

+ better sound

+ controllers do what Rift and Vive controllers do

+ can play Oculus and Vive/Steam games

 

- same 110° Field of View as VivePro/Rift

- controllers don't feel as ergonomic as the Rift's (Vive's candles are the worst imo)

 

It feels very much like the choice between HTC mobiles and Samsung mobiles in quality - but with the prices flipped.

 

I'll roll with this until the end of 2019, when the next gen appears.

 

Currently very happy with it!

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4 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

I recommend Samsung's Odyssey. Reasons:

+ Lower price, can be bought by Europeans via bigapplebuddy or similar services

+ best screen/lens combination on the market

+ easy and quick to set up, inside-out tracking with 2 cams and inertia sensors (tracks better than the Rift)

+ balanced fit on the head, not front-heavy

+ better sound

+ controllers do what Rift and Vive controllers do

+ can play Oculus and Vive/Steam games

 

- same 110° Field of View as VivePro/Rift

- controllers don't feel as ergonomic as the Rift's (Vive's candles are the worst imo)

 

It feels very much like the choice between HTC mobiles and Samsung mobiles in quality - but with the prices flipped.

 

I'll roll with this until the end of 2019, when the next gen appears.

 

Currently very happy with it!

How is the sweet spot with the Samsung? 

The Rift I found that it was pretty good, almost the whole screen.

The Vive Pro too small sweet spot I had to look for it, hated it and returned it.

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1 hour ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

4,900 Euro for the XTAL's, https://vrgineers.com/order/

 

Pretty skimpy on mentioning system requirements though.

 

The system requirements would be very similar to the Pimax5K+, since the resolution is the same.

They also use the 5K term to refer to 2.5K+2.5K total horizontal pixels.

 

IF they could remove the automatic IPD adjust, remove the Leapmotion and sell it for 700-800€ there will be a great gaming market for it.

 

Very expensive for gaming, but I like their advantages over Rift:

  • No data kept or sent to any 3rd party
  • Full control over updates
  • No backdoors

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On 9/3/2018 at 9:20 PM, Macross said:

 

 

Cant wait to see price for it.

Then watch this: 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Dutch2
  • Sad 1

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1yr and its propably about 2k. every new tech costs allways like elon musks space flights. same was with oculus and vive.

gonna wait myself that year that they get all baby problems away and costs down, 3,2k from new tech with propably lots of things not working, no thx 😂

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