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Realism of zoom

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I would like to talk about how realistic is zoom in game. I think most people use it, from time to time i like to watch guncam from IL-2 on youtube.

 

Like you can see, it's max zoom all the time. Because of it, shooting is waaay easier, especially at small targets on the ground. I decieded to stop using max zoom, just a bit that you can still see everything in your cockpit. Now my shooting looks like from real guncams, most of bullets hits around target and i need way more shots to destroy something. Feels more realistic and challenging, it's tempting to zoom in and have it easy but it's kind of fun this way. Would recommend you to try and hear what you think about it.

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I hate the zoom function, for me its like cheating.

Its one of the things why I dont play MP.

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I don't use zoom at all, can't stand it. I basically just use the default head position but a little more zoomed out for better fov. Never zoom in to id target though, just gotta get close enough to tell what it is, just like irl.

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Wait a minute... if we had the same ability in spotting and seeing things as real life, then I would agree with you.

however, this is in a game world where that clarity is not available as yet.

Remember also that some peoples eyesight is not as good as others and may have to rely on it somewhat... things are not always black and white.

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Well, i like zoom as option. I do it to watch explosions of my bombs. But no longer use it as something to help me aim and shoot. It's really more fun this way and actuall challange that having 5 kills and still lots of ammo. Especially in CloD, sometimes i won't even get a single kill and no ammo :scratch_one-s_head: but it's really fun

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I just find zoom to be too disorienting, I like to keep the default zoom or even zoom out a bit in order to keep eyes on my target better. To each his own though.

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As far as I remember when in full zoom, normal eyesight is represented, we just cannot have the correct wide field of view with that detail due to hardware limitations. So I don't really see it as any form of cheating, when 'zoomed out' to give a reasonable field of view we are restricted compared to RL

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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And remember we are "simulating"  being 20 year olds with 20/20 vision :)

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Actually Im using my guns when Im close enough to be sure I will hit something and then max zoom is obsolete anyways. How close the real pilots could see enemy plane from, lets say, 400m away (through their gunsight)?

Edited by blackram

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I believe my screen is about the same width as 109's wind screen + the bars on the sides and I sit about the same distance from my screen. So I dont feel zooming is cheating, mostly anyway. I think one reason why spotting is so difficult in this game is that unlike in 1946 there are no "dots"(that were slightly overblown in 1946 but thats another topic) that compensate human eye sight being better than most screens' resolutions, depending on how far you sit...

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18 minutes ago, Dakpilot said:

As far as I remember when in full zoom, normal eyesight is represented, we just cannot have the correct wide field of view with that detail due to hardware limitations. So I don't really see it as any form of cheating, when 'zoomed out' to give a reasonable field of view we are restricted compared to RL

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

 

This .

 

I was also under the impression that fully zoomed in is representative of the detail you would see IRL.

 

On a screen there is no way to simultaneously get the level of detail and field of view you would have in real life so zoomed in gives the detail zoomed out gives to FOV.

 

There is no cheating just a compromise. 

 

 

Edited by AeroAce
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I play the game strictly in VR, and I very rarely use the zoom function.

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in VR.. or let's say in the "full immersion" mode.. :) :blush: you can't really use zoom to shoot.. Technically, you can, however it's extremely disorienting to go from full vision depth perception in to almost like a 2d mode while in zoom. In VR zoom is mainly for target spotting/identification...

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Theres not cheating at all. I fly to have my PPL someday, and I know we are not fighters in a dogfight, but spotting a plane in RL is way easier than in the sim

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Maybe a binoculars-function on full real mode would be nice, it could allow to see something on distance signicant  better (like on the highest zoom level), but let close objects look very unsharp, like crosshair of the gun sight  and cockpit interieur in general. don`t know if it is possible  in part of the game engine. but it would be a cool feature, it think.

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1 hour ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

Yeah, zoomed in on a 40-inch monitor so that your sight reticle is the size of your head is normal vision...

Because 40" is the standard size for a monitor, right? :lol:

 

 

The zoom is a necessary evil imo. You just can´t make out enough details without it. 

Edited by Psyrion
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Mostly I use Zoom to identify other aircraft / look for stuff in specific regions - for shooting I don´t zoom as personally I find it easier to hit something, when I´m zoomed out.

 

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3 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Wait a minute... if we had the same ability in spotting and seeing things as real life,

 

 

But we are playing videogames... ;)

 

Most of 90's flight games don't have this "zoom" and are not a tragedy. 

 

 

 

 

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actually for deflection shooting minimum fov is better for you lead better

 

 

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Maybe just a realism toggle on/off setting that disables gun triggers while zoomed in?

 

Really have to have zoom as we don't have a binocular function.

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Zooming to identify targets or to aim is cheating to me, but since I decided to not use zoom (and I can) I dont play MP.

I dont blame anyone if you want to use zoom, but its not for me. :salute:

 

1 hour ago, raaaid said:

actually for deflection shooting minimum fov is better for you lead better

 

 

True, but its good for long range snapshots if you target is flying straight or for bombers and ground targets.

 

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A little zoom is ok. The amount of zoom IL-2 has doesn't translate well with Tank Crew. It feels like an absurd amount of zoom.

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14 minutes ago, OpticFlow said:

Is there a zoom function in the bombing view? I wasn't able to find one...

As far as I know there is none, I usually press my eyeball against the screen.

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Well I fly a lot and try to keep track of how  big is a truck in a specific altitude. Also just watched a Docu called "What really happens" About Pearl Harbor and the Arizona. I stated it many times, No CFS got objects on ground and its size  correct. Probably got a good reason for it. They flew at 9700 feet like the Kate did, and the size of the battleship was considerable bigger than any could imagine, all though big is maybe not the correct term, noticeable is better. A levelbombing mission on it would not be a problem, if smoke screen is not set that is.

So I imagine to counter this object render problem they added zoom, and some use it for winning.

For me that is wrong, not that it is wrong that they use it. But for me to use it . I am in for the feel of aviation in WW2 and I use zoom in some degree for IP and spotting. I try to do the other things as correct (flight path , navigation and so on) I want it to be real

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Depends what your doing I guess, if you are playing competitively online you take any advantage you can get, in singleplayer you can strive for making your time as realistic as possible. Doesn't really matter.

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I agree with LuseKofte.  I just started using zoom, and I treat it as a pair of binos in the cockpit to look for bogeys or ground targets while in cruise.  No zoom once I'm mixing it up.  Just seems unrealistic to be able to magnify vision while lining up a shot.  I've been flying since '72 and owned my own C-182A for ten years.  I think the spotting and identification issues aren't that far off RL.

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Zoom is necessary because of the implications of playing something from a first person perspective on a monitor.

 

If you played the game in VR everything would look like it does when you play all the way zoomed in on the monitor. At the same time, you would have the same FOV as you would have zoomed all the way out on a monitor.

 

The unfortunate reality is, when you play on a monitor you can only have one at a time. You can either have the presence, but with a tiny FOV, or have everything look really far away but with a more realistic FOV, or some combination of both.

 

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No matter how much zoom they add, I can still see better with my own eyes in real life from an airplane than I can using the zoom function. Our eyes can still pick up many more details than are currently present.

 

Thanks to the way that our brains and eyes work together we have fairly flexible vision seeing well ahead of us with a fair bit of detail while also having decent enough peripheral vision. Zooming in the game obviously has no peripheral vision so its a downgrade as far as I'm concerned. A necessary evil of course but by no means a cheat.

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I know this video is from Iracing but it's extremely poignant. It basically explains why and how the FOV works.

 

 

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The zoom function is a big no-go for me. I play IL-2 as real as possible. I have the "lean forward" button on my mouse,this is enough for me and closer to what a real life have.

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I use zoom for looking at the ground and ground targets. I like the scenery. 

 

Very rarely for A2A.

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Human eye =

depth perception

kinetic depth effect

perspective

aerial perspective

familiar size 

actual size 

convergence

eye accommodation

stereopsis

shadow stereopsis

depth from motion

 

Flat screen monitor=

............................................

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49 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Human eye =

depth perception

kinetic depth effect

perspective

aerial perspective

familiar size 

actual size 

convergence

eye accommodation

stereopsis

shadow stereopsis

depth from motion

 

Flat screen monitor=

............................................

Just make a post with this and stick it and lock it. It could be even become an official manual, for all those who wonder about the zoom or monitor "issues"

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Anybody, who thinks, that using zoom is like a cheating realy doesnt know what he is talking about! Just think a little bit please, before say anything!

 

On max zoom in game, you have aproximately same resolution as IRL in case you have monitor, where you cant see individual pixel. On min zoom in game, you have aproximately same FoV as IRL. But IRL, you have both at same time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In game, you have to choose between good resolution or good FoV at a time!!!!!!!!!! So zoom really isnt a cheating, it is just way, how you can aproach as close as possibe to IRL with current monitors, but still IRL you have much bigger advantage...

Edited by Hot_Dog
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