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sparty72

I need info re Brexit and gaming

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Hi all, 1st off i dont want this descending into tribal politics so just DONT lol... so, my question, the minute after Brexit happens , will it affect any access to IL2 BoX due to leaving any relevant treaties and compliances within the EU and external and having to fall back on WTO 3rd nation status rules Re, the Internet. I'm not that savvy so just a straight "it'll be fine" or not will suffice with maybe relevant info if poss from those with more knowledge than  myself please, In a nutshell, providing there's no power cuts etc will i be able to "play" the game??

 

Regards in advance

Sparty

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Well if you listen to British MSM the sky will fall in, literally EVERYTHING will fail and darkness will descend upon the land.

From a personal viewpoint, May and her cronies are setting the stage for a second referendum the fiasco that she has created is beyond a joke. "If" we leave without a deal then we trade under WTO. Project fear is on overdrive at the moment. I'm old enough to remember when Britain was not part of any European Union and we were doing fine. 

If we leave there will be teething trouble no doubt, but Britain has the 5th largest economy in the world and is the second highest contributor to the undemocratic EU. They need our Money.

(Soapbox Moment)

 

Edit:-

 

Echoing unreasonable "it'll be fine"..... in the long run.

Edited by 6./ZG26_Custard

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3 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

 I'm old enough to remember when Britain was not part of any European Union and we were doing fine. 

 

?

 

I'll be fifty-five on my next birthday - :o: - and I have very clear memories of a time before our membership of the EU when we really were a basket case, the lights really did go out and our reputation as the sick man of Europe was fully justified.

 

@Sparty;  In the short term everything will be fine........

 

   

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I will be sixty two on my next birthday, and I have very clear memories that all the symptoms that you correctly recollect were down to bolshie trade unions, private and public sector alike. Joining the EU had nothing to do with solving that particular set of problems, it took a certain inflexible lady.

brexit-godzilla-copy.jpg

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Tommies should be happy that they are  leaving that euro kolkhoz :)

Nothing to worry about regard gaming and games availability :)

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34 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

-snip-

 

Oh, don't worry, you got the 1964 Godzilla. He'll be a good guy in a few months. In the meantime, just set the caterpillars loose on him.

Edited by PB_Cybermat47
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Would that be that inflexible lady who did more to shape the EU as it appears today than any other individual since Jean Monnet?:cool:  

 

Dear me....just realised I'll be fifty-six on my next birthday so :o: #2 for agr related early onset!

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2 hours ago, sparty72 said:

Hi all, 1st off i dont want this descending into tribal politics so just DONT lol... so, my question, the minute after Brexit happens , will it affect any access to IL2 BoX due to leaving any relevant treaties and compliances within the EU and external and having to fall back on WTO 3rd nation status rules Re, the Internet. I'm not that savvy so just a straight "it'll be fine" or not will suffice with maybe relevant info if poss from those with more knowledge than  myself please, In a nutshell, providing there's no power cuts etc will i be able to "play" the game??

 

Regards in advance

Sparty

I'll ask the magic 8 ball. It seems to have a better handle on things than any politician.

 

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Undoubtedly and in our lifetime mainland europe has enjoyed a peace and prosperity under EU stewardship unknown to the previous thousand years......

 

 

 

Of course,  we could be really naughty and consider most of the problems faced by mainland europe over the last one hundred and fifty years are down to that certain German speaking tribe living east of the Elbe and most of the problems faced by the rst of the world in the same period can be put down to that empire run from a small island off the coast of north west europe:cool:.   

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

I'll ask the magic 8 ball. It seems to have a better handle on things than any politician.

 

 

Lol.  Too right!:salute:

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Thanks guys, made me feel happier that at least i can still hit my IL2  in the future! and for keeping it clean lol ;)

 

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yeah  but you wont be able to play it retired in the south of spain or italy :)

Edited by raaaid

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Of course you can, you will just need a visa like anywhere else.  I am playing it retired in Thailand, which is not in the EU, unless it has somehow joined by accident and then hushed it up to avoid loss of face.  (Stranger things have happened...)

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6 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

I'll be fifty-five on my next birthday - :o: - and I have very clear memories of a time before our membership of the EU when we really were a basket case, the lights really did go out and our reputation as the sick man of Europe was fully justified.

It's important to also remember that prior to 1992 we were "effectively" just within a "trade agreement" situation but with the signing of the Maastricht Treaty in that year the  constitutional basis of the (Superstate) of the EU was formed. We must  also not forget that the French rejected the forming of the European constitution when they voted to reject the proposals in the French European Constitution referendum, 2005 followed by a no vote in the Dutch European Constitution referendum, 2005.

Guess what though.....

o3C91RK.jpg

Then we have the  Lisbon treaty which was rejected initially by the Irish, but hey they had to vote again until the desired result was achieved.

4 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Undoubtedly and in our lifetime mainland europe has enjoyed a peace and prosperity under EU stewardship unknown to the previous thousand years......

 

That peace is and "has" been maintained by the  $686m that the USA contribute to NATO, the other NATO countries by contrast contribute $275m "total"

This is why the "EU Army" and nuclear deterrent programmes are full speed ahead due to the US stepping away from being the world's "policemen"

 

With regards to prosperity, I'm sure the Greeks and Italians are not feeling particularly prosperous.

 

I'm convinced Theresa the Appease or her advisers have set the wheels in motion to get a second referendum to try and keep Britain in the EU. Her propaganda arm,  AKA the MSM is  currently in full fear overdrive.

 

Edit:

Hard v Soft ( An old video but worth a watch)

 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Custard

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I'm not sure what the monetary figures represent Custard but if they're correct then it would appear an absolute bargain!  I was under the impression that a single, new destroyer is around £1billion alone. 

However,  Nato was not created to keep peace within europe.  Nato was created to keep the soviets out.  The peace we have enjoyed within europe these last seven decades has depended on the harmonious relations we have all enjoyed since 1945.

I fell asleep soon after the video started as its merely the usual nonsense.  The single market is the creation of M. Thatcher btw.

I note neither Ireland, Greece, Italy or any other member has left the EU or is seriously intending to either.   

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1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

I'm not sure what the monetary figures represent Custard but if they're correct then it would appear an absolute bargain!

The military budget for NATO is around $1.2 billion  with $252 million spent on their civilian budget but defense spending by NATO totaled $921 billion or 921 destroyers. Not so much of a bargain.

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

The peace we have enjoyed within europe these last seven decades has depended on the harmonious relations we have all enjoyed since 1945.

I'm pretty sure two world wars with millions dead would certainly make Europe wake up to the idea of having a somewhat more harmonious relationship

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

The single market is the creation of M. Thatcher btw.

Never been much of a fan of Maggie, but it wasn't until 1992 that we went from a trading partnership to the beginnings of  the superstate of Europe.

 

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

I fell asleep soon after the video started as its merely the usual nonsense.

I feel exactly the same, with the nonsense being pedaled by the so called "unbiased" major news outlets.

 

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

I note neither Ireland, Greece, Italy or any other member has left the EU or is seriously intending to either.   

 

 

France and Holland voted to reject  Maastricht Treaty (the creation of an EU constitution) with Ireland rejecting the Treaty of Lisbon but it was irrelevant as they voted again until the EU got the result they wanted.  As for Italy (who have been looking at the possibility of switching back to the lira)  but  particularly Greece, the IMF and the EU have wrecked their economies so they are going to find it very hard to leave with the level of debt around their necks  

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Your gaming will be unaffected provided it doesn't involve hard copies that need to be shipped. 

Other than that, as a counterpoint to the above, not every negative aspect of Brexit is "project fear". Anyone who thinks that leaving the European Union has absolutely 0 consequences is absurd. You can argue the pro's and con's, but there definitely will be consequences for many, and not all of them will be good. 

See, for instance, scientific funding: 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45303280

 

 

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Some of you have already mentioned your age, and it made me think about something I've seen a while ago. It was basically about the majority of the older generations voting for exit, and the opposite for younger people. Is it true, or just partly true or maybe total BS? (asking those from the UK or just anyone more knowledgeable than me).

 

I'm not an expert on politics or economy (and I'm young, i have a lot to learn :biggrin:) but i have a feeling that the EU is often just a distant, ugly scapegoat, that politicians of certain countries readily blame to cover the dirty sh*t they are doing themselves to their own country. Not saying that the EU is alright as it is. 

 

Also, while the progress is definitely there, compared to earlier periods, seven decades of peace and harmonious relations since 1945 in Europe are not entirely true. At least if you count Ukraine, Hungary or ex-Yugoslavia as Europe.

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23 minutes ago, rolikiraly said:

Some of you have already mentioned your age, and it made me think about something I've seen a while ago. It was basically about the majority of the older generations voting for exit, and the opposite for younger people. Is it true, or just partly true or maybe total BS? (asking those from the UK or just anyone more knowledgeable than me).

 

I'm not an expert on politics or economy (and I'm young, i have a lot to learn :biggrin:) but i have a feeling that the EU is often just a distant, ugly scapegoat, that politicians of certain countries readily blame to cover the dirty sh*t they are doing themselves to their own country. Not saying that the EU is alright as it is. 

 

Also, while the progress is definitely there, compared to earlier periods, seven decades of peace and harmonious relations since 1945 in Europe are not entirely true. At least if you count Ukraine, Hungary or ex-Yugoslavia as Europe.

 

 

Absolutely right, the statistical trends were very interesting. There was a degree of "scapegoating", especially in the recent, more austerity-affected years. 10 or 15 years ago barely anyone was complaining about the EU, or if they were, not many people were interested. But with more recent government policies resulting in greater income inequality, reduction in quantity and quality of public services etc., the EU became something to blame, especially given its more open views regarding migration. 

 

image.thumb.png.ee82ef5d60356458a0df479fe3452ccc.png

 

Source https://www.politico.eu/article/graphics-how-the-uk-voted-eu-referendum-brexit-demographics-age-education-party-london-final-results/ (based on YouGov exit poll)

Edited by Leaf

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1 hour ago, rolikiraly said:

Some of you have already mentioned your age, and it made me think about something I've seen a while ago. It was basically about the majority of the older generations voting for exit, and the opposite for younger people. Is it true, or just partly true or maybe total BS? (asking those from the UK or just anyone more knowledgeable than me).

 

I'm not an expert on politics or economy (and I'm young, i have a lot to learn :biggrin:) but i have a feeling that the EU is often just a distant, ugly scapegoat, that politicians of certain countries readily blame to cover the dirty sh*t they are doing themselves to their own country. Not saying that the EU is alright as it is. 

 

Also, while the progress is definitely there, compared to earlier periods, seven decades of peace and harmonious relations since 1945 in Europe are not entirely true. At least if you count Ukraine, Hungary or ex-Yugoslavia as Europe.

 

The age demographic of the UK is very much tilted to the older generations and with the most europhobic being around the age of 40-70 so leave had a boost from the start. This is because when they grew up they experienced it going from a "trading union" to the political state it is now which many felt was not what they wanted not to mention the whole immigration debate which is the kingpin of the leave vote as England has never been one for immigrants (bit more info in the spoiler) on top of the questionable quality of the EU. The younger generation, as is usually the case, are more liberal and have always been in the EU so a lot of us see it as normal and weird being outside it, not to mention there is a much more globalist view among this generation. Also academic wise there is more remain because there is a large amount of co-operation between countries in the STEM, economic, environmental and political fields and so it's more beneficial to remain unlike in the more blue-collar jobs.  So yes it is true how ever the closer you get to the ww2 generation it started to go back to remain 

 

 

 


 

just a bit more on immigration; the uk has never been the country most open to foreign people this is for whatever reason and still somewhat lingers today. also with the country's current utilities under such strain (NHS, Police, schools more and more housing etc) the last thing many people want is roughly 300,000 new immigrants each year. So from a sustainable point of view it is already unwanted not to mention the animosity to different cultures. From what ive seen, each new wave of immigrants are working for lower and lower wages which mean even the early immigrants are losing jobs to new ones which is a bad trend for wokers rights and stuff (also from what i understand there is a criteria that can be passed for new people in to the country that allows them rather quickly to get a social security number and so access to the NHS and benefits - which leads to the obvious "they're leaching of the state " and stuff which is certainly happening but IDK to what extent). 

 

 

 

 

hopefully this clears up the why to difference in opinion with age. 

 

ALSO this is my view on it so take it with a good pinch of salt 

Edited by JG5_Zesphr

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In my view UK people have the right to decide what they want, and UK politicians have the right to f@ck up what they think appropriate, but I seriously doubt that leaving the EU (or remaining in the EU) would resolve any of the problems Britons think they have. The UK won't be made magically undivided by leaving the EU (or remaining in the EU), to begin with.

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8 hours ago, Leaf said:

 

 

Absolutely right, the statistical trends were very interesting. There was a degree of "scapegoating", especially in the recent, more austerity-affected years. 10 or 15 years ago barely anyone was complaining about the EU, or if they were, not many people were interested. But with more recent government policies resulting in greater income inequality, reduction in quantity and quality of public services etc., the EU became something to blame, especially given its more open views regarding migration. 

 

image.thumb.png.ee82ef5d60356458a0df479fe3452ccc.png

 

Source https://www.politico.eu/article/graphics-how-the-uk-voted-eu-referendum-brexit-demographics-age-education-party-london-final-results/ (based on YouGov exit poll)

 

While I am not sure what "degree" in these charts means, this analysis takes no explicit account of the fact that when people in the higher age groups were in their late teens to early twenties, a university degree was still an elite attainment.  When I went up in 1976 the proportion of boys who went to university was still only about 15% and far lower for girls. Now it is 40% for boys and 50% for girls.  Universities have expanded, but more importantly a large proportion of the young people who recently earned "degrees" went to institutions that were not recognized as universities until 1992. It depends how the questions were framed: if you ask people who went to a Polytechnic before 1992 if they had a university degree, they would say "no". Someone who did exactly the same course a couple of years later would say "yes".

 

Having a degree correlates with (edit voting remain)  simply because it correlates with youth and 40%+ of young people (in the first two bars of the chart) now have a degree. In contrast perhaps 10-15% of the over 65s have a degree.   To get any meaningful comparison about the effect of education on the vote from this data you would have to compare the R/L split over age by each group of educational attainment, and over educational attainment by each age group.  This may have been done but I have not seen it: if it is the linked site I cannot find it.

 

While the facts as stated in the these charts may be correct, their meaning is not what people think. It is deeply ironic that you often see this analysis presented by remainers as proof that leavers are "stupid", and if that was not bad enough, therefore unfit to be allowed to judge their own best interest.   

 

There is certainly an age effect: once upon a time this would have been interpreted as showing the wisdom of experience. ;)  

 

 

Edited by unreasonable
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4 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

What things are you looking forward to once the UK leaves the EU?

 

That is not the point -  since I do not live in the UK, could not vote and will be largely unaffected either way. Remainers slagging a group of people off for being stupid on the basis of a  misunderstanding of statistics is what I find laughable.   

 

We do not know how life outside the EU will differ from future life inside it: not only because no-one knows how the country will adjust to leaving, if it actually does, but also because no-one knows how the EU will develop.  Some people who voted leave may be basing their decision on an unrealistic expectations based on the past, but leavers are doing it too if they think that remaining means no change. It just means changing as the EU changes, rather than outside it.

 

People made their R/L decision based on whatever mattered to them at the time. For some people this may be based on a short term expectation of costs and benefits, for others it is based on more intangible ideals about what sort of governing structures are best for long term social stability and fairness.  I also think it is monumental hypocrisy for remainers to assume that they are the ones making a decision based on the wider public good while leavers were all motivated by narrow self interest.  

 

Personally I expect both the UK and EU economies to take a hit - you cannot unravel decades of integration overnight.  The longer term, however, is harder to call both economically and politically, simply because the future of the EU is so doubtful. What is clear is that an increasing number of people do not wish to be ruled by unaccountable, patronizing, global elites (or by the tribe from the Rhine-Elbe region) and want to have meaningful power closer to their communities, preferably ones that cannot have their demographics irreversibly changed in a couple of decades because the politicians decide they need more compliant voters and the capitalists want some more subsistence level workers. 

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9 hours ago, Leaf said:

Anyone who thinks that leaving the European Union has absolutely 0 consequences is absurd. 

Anyone with any sense knows that there will negative consequences (for Britain and the EU, they need our money.) Unfortunately, the  MSM is completely biased, with the BBC being one of the worst offenders.

 

The level of hysterical fear mongering is just off the scale, setting the scene "nicely" for May's No Deal Brexit to trigger a second referendum.   

 

There will also be positive consequences "if" we actually get what 17.5 million Britons voted for.  If we have a second referendum, I believe that after the 2 year delay, the "tactical" blunders of May's government and the openly hostile attitude of the EU (Isn't it amazing that the EU can sign a free trade deal with Japan but refused to sign one with Britain ) will result in a remain vote. 

 

Edit: I'd still vote to leave. 

 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Custard
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Hi all,

 

Politics are not allowed in this forum. OP got his answer and now this has evolved into political discussion.  Locked.

 

Haash

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