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Tiger Tank armor - weakspots


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As this beast is almost impossible to destroy above 700m range from the sides and from the front often even at point blank unpenetratable, I'd think it would be a good thing to combine the knowledge on how to tear these beasts down. So lets collect info and maybe some graphics that might help us.

 

For what I have found working until now isn't much:

 

- Attack the spot directly above the tracks from the sides (its quite narrow), AFAIK armor should be 'only' 65mm there instead of the usual 100mm side armor (correct me if I am wrong)

- try to hit the barrel or close to it when engaged from the front (might disable turret)

 

 

Jordan

 

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As a Tiger Tank Commander... I can attest to the misinformation (propaganda) provided above. The German master races Tiger tank is invincible. If you spot one on any battlefield, even at distance, turn and run away. Only death awaits you if you stay within its firing range. 😁

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45 minutes ago, 216th_Jordan said:

AFAIK armor should be 'only' 65mm there instead of the usual 100mm side armor (correct me if I am wrong)

According to Wikipedia it is 60mm at the lower hull side, while the upper hull side is 80mm. The front armor is 100mm, 110 around the gun.

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1 hour ago, Yogiflight said:

According to Wikipedia it is 60mm at the lower hull side, while the upper hull side is 80mm. The front armor is 100mm, 110 around the gun.

 

You don´t need exact numbers. All you need to know you can glean from this sketch: 😉

 

 

LXr9RKI.jpg

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Does using HE rounds have any effect, especially at longer ranges? I'm finding it impossible to touch a Tiger from distance in a T-34 - though quite chuffed at blowing one up by creeping around and shooting it in the back from about 5 metres. (Got killed by its mate about 5 seconds later though)

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I offer an observation from one of my recent missions. May not really apply to the question.

 

I had two 88s attacking me in one of the new KV-1s. The 88s may have been around 1,400m out. In two mission run throughs, they knocked one of my tracks out and In the other, I was able to survive and drive away from my defensive position.  😐

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Well, I've been disabled (tracks) and killed or wounded several times (not sure where the rounds came from).It does take quite a few hits but it can be done. I assume the DM is cumulative. Also seen shattered glass on the periscopes (and the operator is bloodied).

Edited by II./JG1_Vonrd
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From my experience, at long range you are wasting your time trying to take this on in a T34 or a KV1.I have found it is best to conceal yourself in dead ground and let the the tiger come on and take it from the side from around 200m, the tiger operator is usually over confident and tends not to look out to well on the advance, especially to the side and rear, confident that the 88mm will save the day.

 

If you can get close to the tiger, grab it's belt buckle so to speak, with a T34 you can run circles around it, i find at close range the tracks are easy to take out ( in the game anyway ) and  it's turret traverse is painfully slow, it is here that the T34's speed will save your day.

 

The Tigers famed soft spot to the rear, as already mentioned, works but it does have to be point blank.

 

Just my 10 pence ...

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I've been successful from the sides with 700m or less the part slightly above the tracks seems to work quite well from there but you really need to hide out to get so close.

 

I wonder if this will change dramatically with the Su-122 with its HEAT round which is said to have 160mm of armor penetration.

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I have seen a T34 flip over a tiger on to it's back.....not sure how realistic this is...but it happened.,.the tiger was in reverse as the T34 pushed from the front which helped produce the result....

Edited by J5_Baeumer
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On 8/13/2018 at 12:24 PM, 151HD said:

From my experience, at long range you are wasting your time trying to take this on in a T34 or a KV1.I have found it is best to conceal yourself in dead ground and let the the tiger come on and take it from the side from around 200m, the tiger operator is usually over confident and tends not to look out to well on the advance, especially to the side and rear, confident that the 88mm will save the day.

 

If you can get close to the tiger, grab it's belt buckle so to speak, with a T34 you can run circles around it, i find at close range the tracks are easy to take out ( in the game anyway ) and  it's turret traverse is painfully slow, it is here that the T34's speed will save your day.

 

The Tigers famed soft spot to the rear, as already mentioned, works but it does have to be point blank.

 

Just my 10 pence ...

 

Today I oneshotted a Tiger from about 500m aiming at the lower hull sides. Blew up nicely with the turred flying off. :cool:

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7 hours ago, J5_Baeumer said:

I have seen a T34 flip over a tiger on to it's back.....not sure how realistic this is...but it happened.,.the tiger was in reverse as the T34 pushed from the front which helped produce the result....

 

If the physics are better than War Thunder we should all be happy.

 

 

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17 hours ago, SCG_wtornado said:

Wait until the devs make the IS-2 tank.It will be the Tigers running for cover.

 

Not really. The IS-2 was a tank that looked all big and scary on paper, but in reality it was an average performer.

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I think that’s the sweetspot. This was after 3 shots in the T-34 with APHE at 1.0. Got lucky a few times and took one shot. But of course, it was stagnant and not firing back. 😀 

Also, hitting it somewhere on the front sprocket will break the tread and disable it.

 

 

 

Edited by BP_Lizard
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On 8/18/2018 at 5:55 PM, BP_Lizard said:

 

I think that’s the sweetspot. This was after 3 shots in the T-34 with APHE at 1.0. Got lucky a few times and took one shot. But of course, it was stagnant and not firing back. 😀 

Also, hitting it somewhere on the front sprocket will break the tread and disable it.

 

 

 

 

Exactly, thats where there is only 60mm of armor and the ammo racks are directly behind that.

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On 8/13/2018 at 5:20 PM, 216th_Jordan said:

I wonder if this will change dramatically with the Su-122 with its HEAT round which is said to have 160mm of armor penetration.

It have not. 90mm(88,96 in game) max pen, for HE shells of M-30 gun.

But this gun is in game now(howitzer m30), and it effective anti-tank weapon. From 1000m m30 can critical damage Tigers, even one-shot. 

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3 hours ago, Mr_Pickles said:

It have not. 90mm(88,96 in game) max pen, for HE shells of M-30 gun.

 

HEAT is not HE though. Also HE should only have concussion effects (however quite good against armored targets still).

Where did you get those numbers though?

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2 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

Where did you get those numbers though?

I use unGTP tool from this topic

 to view game files. 

It helps in mission create, to understand what maximum range to at-gun for example, and you can find list of weapons for new planes/vehicles, etc.

I use m30 howitzers to protect tank base and it works - they kill Tigers from 1,5-2km. 

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On russian forum players noted that... HE rounds 76mm can one-shot Tigers from 1500m - tank blow up. Possibly bug, but they says it work in multiplayer.

I sometimes was one-shoted in Tiger from T-34 of some players. Not from back or side - straight in head and tank was blowed up. 

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Time for Mythbusting.

1 hour ago, Mr_Pickles said:

in single mission, it works, HE rounds kill tigers🙃

Correct.

 

13 hours ago, Mr_Pickles said:

HE rounds 76mm can one-shot Tigers from 1500m - tank blow up.

Myth.

 

Testing conditions:

T-34 vs. Tiger face-to-face.

Distance 1500m.

T-34 shoots straight at the Tiger's front.

 

Results:

7 HE shots make the Tiger smoke, shot no.13 kills it.

A full magazine of APHE, AP or APCR rounds scratches the Tiger's paint, but that's it. No smoke, no kill.

Tracks attached.

Sorry for the strange file extension.

Uploading as "zip" file slightly exceeds the 5mb limit, compressing in "7zip" format would usually create a ".7z" file but the forum only allows ".7zip" files, so you might need to rename this file to ".7z" in order to open it in 7zip.

 

:drinks:

Mike

T-34_vs_Tiger_at_1500m.7zip

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5 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

Testing conditions:

T-34 vs. Tiger face-to-face.

Distance 1500m.

T-34 shoots straight at the Tiger's front.

 

Results:

7 HE shots make the Tiger smoke, shot no.13 kills it. 

 

Funny, HE rounds set fire, rip apart soft/thin armor and soft/thin parts but tanks have thick armor and thick parts there are not many parts what HE rounds really could destroy. There is a very huge difference between soft/thin armored and heavy armored tanks where soft/thin armored tanks can be easily destroyed with HE rounds but on heavy armored tanks you can only set them inability to drive...........

 

HE rounds on heavy armored tanks that they can blow them apart the whole tank or set them on fire is a myth. HE rounds explode only outside so the rounds can only rip apart soft/thin parts from their target where they impact and set them on fire if this is something what can catch fire. 

Edited by Livai
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Looks like the damage model of the Tiger isn't finished yet.

Mind you, this is early access.

When looking closer at what happens, you will notice that the HE shells seem to move through the Tiger's front as if it wasn't there, just to explode right where the engine is.

This definitely doesn't look like what you'd expect.

 

:drink2:

Mike

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That's true.

I thought of the Tiger as a virtually unkillable object before, but now all of a sudden it's a deathtrap.

I remember how we tried to fight it with IL-2.

One successful strategy was to do multiple passes with 240x bomblet loadout in the hope to score a good number of direct hits. Got us one kill after about 480x bomblets.

The other successful strategy, odd enough, was to fight it with guns only. I got one to smoke using 23mm VYA guns (probably because of mixed HE/AP ammo), which I didn't manage before with 37mm AP ammo only. And my wingmate finally scored a "PK" on the tank with his 20mm ShVAKs.

Now finally all of this makes sense. In a way. The way of the bug ;)

 

:drinks:

Mike

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On 8/30/2018 at 4:56 PM, SAS_Storebror said:

Looks like the damage model of the Tiger isn't finished yet.

Mind you, this is early access.

Try PzIII with HE rounds and you will see - Tiger same as other tanks, couse 50mm HE also effective vs T34 on the distance😂

On 1500 it is not like 76mm but, can kill T34, other ammo can't do it. At 500-1000m it works. 

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On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 11:09 AM, Mr_Pickles said:

It have not. 90mm(88,96 in game) max pen, for HE shells of M-30 gun.

 

What M-30 gun are you talking about? The M-30 122mm howitzer? The same gun that was used as M30s in the SU-122 assault gun?

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2 hours ago, sevenless said:

What M-30 gun are you talking about? The M-30 122mm howitzer? The same gun that was used as M30s in the SU-122 assault gun?

It same cannon.

And now i understand why it so effective against tanks🙃

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6 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

As for the HE shell being fired against armor I don´t think so. If we talk about the HEAT round, that is another beast. See here for the 122 mm M-1938 M-30 L/22.7

Nothing to talk at this moment. We have a bug in game, where HE more powerful then HEAT. And we have not SU-122.

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On 8/18/2018 at 8:03 AM, LukeFF said:

 

Not really. The IS-2 was a tank that looked all big and scary on paper, but in reality it was an average performer.

 

Why ? The Is-2 has some downsides but overall it seems like a much better tank than it's german counterpart the Tiger II. 

 

Really good armor, really good gun (but primitive) and it could travel quite a bit without being broken all the time.

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50 minutes ago, Eicio said:

 

Why ? The Is-2 has some downsides but overall it seems like a much better tank than it's german counterpart the Tiger II. 

 

Really good armor, really good gun (but primitive) and it could travel quite a bit without being broken all the time.

At first appearance it seems to be a much better tank but if you look closer than you would call them equal.

The reason is the gun which is not really a gun for tanks.

 

"The most recognizable disadvantage of the D-25T gun was its slow rate of fire due to the large size and weight of the shells; only one to one and a half rounds per minute could be fired, initially.After some design improvements, including a semi-automatic drop breech over the previously manual screw breech, the rate of fire increased to 2–3 rounds per minute., and according to other sources, the increase may have amounted to 3–4 rounds per minute. Another limitation imposed by the size of its ammunition in a relatively small vehicle was the ammunition stowage: only 28 rounds could be carried inside the tank, with a complement of 20 HE rounds and 8 AP rounds the norm."

A Tiger I tested at Aberdeen proving ground could fire 7-8 rounds per minute. A Tiger II would fire a little bit slower.

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On paper the Tiger II is better in every aspect but, like many too heavy german tanks, it spend more times being fixed than being used in combat whereas the IS-2 was part of the soviet rush over germany and it fullfilled it's purpose quite well, the soviets were that impressed that they made a lot of other heavy tanks for quite a while.

 

So for me say that the Tiger II is "excellent" and the IS-2 "average" is not really understandable since one is merely more than a prototype that gave more problems than satisfaction while the other was a huge success both by it's operational history and by the numbers built.

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This should give a good idea of the capability of the guns.

 

"Red Army Handbook 1939-1945", by S. J. Zaloga and L. S. Ness, 1998 (Alan Sutton, Thrupp) gives on page 179 a table of the ranges in metres at which Soviet tanks and assault guns were knocked out by 75mm and 88mm guns in 1943-44, as follows:

Range_______75mm gun_____88mm gun
100-200_______10.0%_________4.0%
200-400_______26.1%________14.0%
400-600_______33.5%________18.0%
600-800_______14.5%________31.2%
800-1000_______7.0%________13.5%
1000-1200______4.5%_________8.5%
1200-1400______3.6%_________7.6%
1400-1600______0.4%_________2.0%
1600-1800______0.4%_________0.7%
1800-2000______0.0%_________0.5%

The original has omitted the line for 600-800 metres, calculated the entries for that line by subtracting the sum of each column from 100%.

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