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JG4_Sputnik

Why do I still have to deal with this?

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I've tried the new Sea Dragons scripted campaign today.

It is so annoying that you have to start immediately when you are thrown into the mission - by the time I've checked all the flaps, coolers, gauges, tailwheel etc. my flight leader has already left and flown away for 3-4km. I have no chance whatsoever to catch up to him after that. Only thing I can do is take off right away without any preflight checks like this was an arcade game.For fighters it may be acceptable but as soon you fly attack planes or even bombers it is just not. How the heck is this still in the sim after all these years?

 

We have all those switches and mechanics and yet you are forced to push the gas and fly without even taking care of all of that? It annoys me to no end, even more so that it seems to be an easy fix;

Let me start up and taxi (make it an opition), or if the AI isn't capable of doing so - which some are stating, yet there are SP missions do download where it works perfectly fine - then delay the start of the flight leader for 20-30 secs!

 

It completely ruins the beginning of every single mission! And for someone who actually cares for immersion it is just frustrating as hell. I've never ever heard the devs mentioning that issue let alone even noticing it and it is in the game for years now. It would be so great to one day read a patch not that says "career and sp missions start from parking option added". Its such a small feature that yet has a big impact on immersion and realism.

Am I the only one caring about that?

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Salutations,

 

You present so much stress. Sorry to hear about your campaign stress and disappointment. 

 

In the case of Sea Dragons, you can avoid such stress by pressing the [A] key.

 

The scripted campaign is configured as the mission/campaign maker desired things to be presented. I'm sure it wasn't meant to annoy or stress anybody out.

 

If uber realism is your overriding concern, learn how to build your own scripted campaign(s) and include all of the realistic immersion factors you desire. Knock yourself out.

 

Perhaps others would appreciate your efforts. :salute:

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I try to create missions that start with the engine off for that reason. It gives you time to settle and take your time taxiing and taking off.

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I get your point, and your suggestion is pretty reasonable, but I think you are being overly dramatic about the impact this has on gameplay. I never have trouble rushing through my preflight settings, which at most amounts to 

 

1. Mixture: auto rich

2. RPM: Max or take off power

3. Rudder and elevator trim

4. Radiators open (close the inlet flaps on A-20)

5. Release flaps

 

This can be done in a handful of seconds (except in some cases for flaps, but those can be set while you are rolling) Even if you start as no. 2, you are not going to get left behind.

 

That being said, I actually agree with your proposition.

 

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1 hour ago, JG4_Sputnik said:

It completely ruins the beginning of every single mission! And for someone who actually cares for immersion it is just frustrating as hell. I've never ever heard the devs mentioning that issue let alone even noticing it and it is in the game for years now. It would be so great to one day read a patch not that says "career and sp missions start from parking option added". Its such a small feature that yet has a big impact on immersion and realism.

Am I the only one caring about that?

I understand your point of view, but:

1) There are only 2 missions where you've to fly as wingman in the pair

2) There are 3 missions where you've to fly as wingman №4 and №8 and you've enough time to prepare

3) You're a leader in the all other missions in the campaign

4) I'm forced to do official campaigns focusing on the normal level of difficulty. If I give a player 20-30 s in the begin of mission what will he do at this time? His plane is ready for flight at once

5) I can't use the option "start from parking" in the official campaigns as there are a lot of problems with AI planes

 

Maybe, if I've time and opportunity to change Sea Dragons I'll add 5-10 s to the begining of the 1st and 3rd mission.

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It's hard to please everyone though. Some people dont have a lot of time to fly and dont want to "waste" it on the ground. 

 

The mission builder's dilemma.

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23 minutes ago, Karamazov said:

 

That there is the issue for me. I want to take time to enjoy things, this is part of the flight for me, I don't want to rush things unless it is part of the mission environment (e.g. Scramble). I want to watch the levers move, see the trim set itself toggle through bomb settings, maybe dial in the wind etc.

 

As I said, I understand the sentiment and agree with the proposed delay on first take off. 

 

What I was trying to get across was, that even if you think it’s annoying, it does not break the game in the way the OP seems to suggest.

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It's also an issue with career mode. It would be beneficial to have, say, a 15-second delay before the flight leader takes off. 

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I flew two missions of this campaign and put it away, I hate having a drag race to target, by the time I got there they have already hit the target and are headed back.  It almost reminds me of coop missions in the old legacy IL2, everyone ran as quick as they could to the objective.  All missions should have a nice leisurely circuit around the base for the group to form up, and then fly to target, at a normal cruising speed.  I like flying formation with the leader, but I also like flying lead so I can set the pace.  If you haven't played Fire and Ice yet you should try it.  There's a new one on the way that will be very good. 

 

Cheers

 

Hoss

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As Luke pointed out, it is exactly the same issue with the career mode missions. And yes, of course you can do the prestart in a hurry, to make it halfway in time, but really, can this be a reason, to let it as it is. We all wanted a real career system for immersion, as the old campaign system had pretty much nothing of immersion. But this quickstart, we currently have in the career missions is no better.

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I agree with the OP , but knowing the AI if we start at the ramp getting taxi to the airfield will take a hour. Sea Dragon is the best scripted campaign out there. In fact I am going in now and fly it again

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18 hours ago, Thad said:

Salutations,

 

You present so much stress. Sorry to hear about your campaign stress and disappointment. 

 

In the case of Sea Dragons, you can avoid such stress by pressing the [A] key.

 

The scripted campaign is configured as the mission/campaign maker desired things to be presented. I'm sure it wasn't meant to annoy or stress anybody out.

 

If uber realism is your overriding concern, learn how to build your own scripted campaign(s) and include all of the realistic immersion factors you desire. Knock yourself out.

 

Perhaps others would appreciate your efforts. :salute:

 

Thanks, but since I want maximal immersion, "A" is not an option for me 😉

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Finkeren said:

I get your point, and your suggestion is pretty reasonable, but I think you are being overly dramatic about the impact this has on gameplay. I never have trouble rushing through my preflight settings, which at most amounts to 

 

1. Mixture: auto rich

2. RPM: Max or take off power

3. Rudder and elevator trim

4. Radiators open (close the inlet flaps on A-20)

5. Release flaps

 

This can be done in a handful of seconds (except in some cases for flaps, but those can be set while you are rolling) Even if you start as no. 2, you are not going to get left behind.

 

That being said, I actually agree with your proposition.

 

 

I am being exactly as dramatic I want to be about it. It is an issue for me that has not been addressed for such a long time and I think it makes no sense in the complex sim environment that Il2 provides to us. And as you said, you can "rush" through everything, but what is the point in doing that? Ever seen a real pilot rushing through pre-flight checks? Maybe he does that once and then probably died. It's like having a nice 4 course meal and then give the customer 5min time eating it - of course its possible but why would you want to?

 

And I'm completely aware of the fact, that this is not a problem for everyone, but I feel encouraged to bring that issue up again and again because I have the feeling that the sim is marketed more towards guys like me who want a complete flight experience rather than to guys who only want to rush through things and casually shoot some planes out of the sky.

 

18 hours ago, BlackSix said:

I understand your point of view, but:

1) There are only 2 missions where you've to fly as wingman in the pair

2) There are 3 missions where you've to fly as wingman №4 and №8 and you've enough time to prepare

3) You're a leader in the all other missions in the campaign

4) I'm forced to do official campaigns focusing on the normal level of difficulty. If I give a player 20-30 s in the begin of mission what will he do at this time? His plane is ready for flight at once

5) I can't use the option "start from parking" in the official campaigns as there are a lot of problems with AI planes

 

Maybe, if I've time and opportunity to change Sea Dragons I'll add 5-10 s to the begining of the 1st and 3rd mission.

 

Thanks BlackSix, your missions are great as always and I understand that you can not do whatever you want. I just don't get it why your company has so few faith in us pilots that it thinks we can not sit 20secs in a cockpit and do a preflight check without being bored to death... I agree though that a 20sec delay would not be the best solution, but an AI push and then make taxi as an option would be so great so you could please both audiences. 

And being the flight leader is not exactely a solution either since this issue not only affects your campaign but also the career mode where I have to fly many more missions as wingman and not only two.

Actually, that rushed start decentivizes the customer to learn to fly a plane properly, which makes no sence to me.

 

17 hours ago, Finkeren said:

 

As I said, I understand the sentiment and agree with the proposed delay on first take off. 

 

What I was trying to get across was, that even if you think it’s annoying, it does not break the game in the way the OP seems to suggest.

 

As I stated previously, it is not you that decides what breaks MY gameplay experience and by  how much ;-). Maybe you like rushing through things and then shoot 15 planes per mission out of the sky - hey, more power to you! But I don't and I'm not going to take anything away from you by suggesting adding an option for an in fact more realistic approach.

 

 

14 hours ago, 19//Hoss said:

I flew two missions of this campaign and put it away, I hate having a drag race to target, by the time I got there they have already hit the target and are headed back.  It almost reminds me of coop missions in the old legacy IL2, everyone ran as quick as they could to the objective.  All missions should have a nice leisurely circuit around the base for the group to form up, and then fly to target, at a normal cruising speed.  I like flying formation with the leader, but I also like flying lead so I can set the pace.  If you haven't played Fire and Ice yet you should try it.  There's a new one on the way that will be very good. 

 

Cheers

 

Hoss

 

Thanks Hoss for the Fire and Ice tip! Just checked and its an 110 campaign which is very very nice to see! Can't wait to try it myself.

 

Cheers

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53 minutes ago, JG4_Sputnik said:

Thanks Hoss for the Fire and Ice tip! Just checked and its an 110 campaign which is very very nice to see! Can't wait to try it myself.

If you like flying the 110, you definitely should go for it.

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Preferences are a tough thing to try and satisfy as a builder, because as everyone preferences are different.

For every guy who wants to start from a parked position with the engine off, there's another guy who lacks the time or patience for that and would much

rather start on the runway with engines running.

 

Second, little details like a delay before taking off, this is the sort of feedback that testers are good for, and let me tell you it's extremely difficult to find reliable testers.

I ended up with exactly 2, and that's out of maybe 10 guys who said they could help out initially.

Even then, several testers might fly the campaign and never give Alex this feedback, until now. There's about a million little details to track, a bunch of logic that you're trying to make sure works properly, and if nobody says they're having trouble keeping up, then the builder has no way of knowing.

 

So you inevitably you'll find little things that need adjusting, and you'll adjust as feedback rolls in. Then you'll employ that knowledge next time.

That's how it works.

 

 

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On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 8:50 PM, LukeFF said:

It's also an issue with career mode. It would be beneficial to have, say, a 15-second delay before the flight leader takes off. 

 

Totally agree. If a mission is to start on the runway with the engine running then the setting of a short delay before the leader takes off is all it needs.

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On 8/10/2018 at 11:06 AM, BlackSix said:

-snip-

 

5) I can't use the option "start from parking" in the official campaigns as there are a lot of problems with AI planes

 

-snip-

 

We know. It would be good if you guys assigned a little more priority, resources, finances, whatever it be to improving AI because it is the single, largest point of disappointment in IL-2: GB.

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Never actually thought about it before but the idea that the mission starts with you in your aircraft and effectively the mission is live but nothing is active until you press a 'begin' button, which triggers the mission Ai and all other features to start sounds cool? 

This way a player can do all their pre-flight checks while nothing happens on the airfield (or anywhere else in the campaign) until the player hits an activation button sounds effective for either the pre flight checkers and map readers or the ready to go straight from the off. Would have to make sure that once pressed it  couldn't be pressed again or as the pilot approached the action they could press it again pausing everything except them, leaving them to strike at will, fly away and unpause everything and see it all explode at once! 

 

I do however like the idea (whether it is possible is another matter) of a mission activation button? 

 

Cheers MP

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