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RedRider

Soviet fighter tactics?

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I've played Germany a lot online, and I always thought the Allied birds were overpowered with their turn rates. Muh Russian bias and all that. But after trying the Soviet birds for a while now... man, how the hell are you supposed to beat boom and zoom from the 109s and 190s? Much respect to those Soviet pilots that can survive and even get some kills. I can't imagine how terrifying that would have been in real life. Any second someone can dive down from the stratosphere and cheap shot you.

 

Any tips? I'm just getting slaughtered out there. I really like the Soviet birds, they seem to have more character. I really like the P-39, I just don't like getting killed constantly -- it's demoralizing when I remember how much easier it was as a german...

Edited by RedRider
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Just now, RedRider said:

I've played Germany a lot online, and I always thought the Allied birds were overpowered with their turn rates. Muh Russian bias and all that. But after trying the Soviet birds for a while now... man, how the hell are you supposed to beat boom and zoom from the 109s and 190s. Much respect to those Soviet pilots that can survive and even get some kills. I can't imagine how terrifying that would have been in real life. Any second someone can dive down from the stratosphere and cheap shot you.

 

Any tips? I'm just getting slaughtered out there. I really like the Soviet birds, they seem to have more character. I really like the P-39, I just don't like getting killed constantly -- it's demoralizing when I remember how much easier it was as a german...

 

Glad you're experiencing this from both sides of the coin. It's amazing the number of people who don't try it and then complain endlessly about the Russian types... enough about that. Tactics!

 

Definitely requires a different approach to combat. I am by no means an expert here but I know with the German side you tend to hold the advantage of being able to select your combat moment and pounce when ready. For a Russian pilot you're often faced with attacking 109s (or 190s) coming from above and fast. So you do have to use turn rate, when you have that advantage, as a way to avoid the attacks and try and wear the Bf109 pilot down and bring him down roughly to your altitude level.

 

Try and work on getting the best defensive maneuvering with the least amount of energy use. He may have the altitude/speed advantage at the start but you want to minimize that. Basically you want him to spend more energy trying to attack you than you do defending.

 

One video to check out is Gridiron's 'Entry Level Decision Making' which is a great discussion on decision making, tactics, etc.

 

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I think the best answer is to do what they did back in the day. Gang up on them. Realistically you can't fight a 109 or 190 head to head unless they give you that fight; and if they are giving you that fight it is because they think they can win it. With the greater speed, acceleration and climbing ability of the 109/190 when compared to most Soviet fighters the initiative is all on the German side. Even if the fight starts looking a bit dodgy they can simply pour on the power and run away, and they do this a lot. This changes a bit when the more powerful Soviet fighters come into play, the LA-5, especially the FN variant, and to some extent the Yak 7.  So the best way to win the fight is to have someone else on hand to kill them for you or vice versa.

 

The Kuban Step, or some variation there of, works well. This is where you have planes up high and behind the initial flight, about 1 Km above and behind. When the lower planes out front get engaged the higher planes can then swoop in and land shots, typically when the German is climbing out after the attack that (hopefully) failed to kill the bait. Sense the German will often be focused on keeping out of the guns of the plane they just tried to kill they may not see the actual threat coming in for the kill. You can repeat the step a few times, having multiple tiers of covering fighters too, but the more people you add in the better your group coordination has to be. A variation of the German drag and bag tactic can work too, but you have to replace strait line speed for more dodging. Just about every Soviet plane will lose in a foot race to a German. Talk the other guy into your position and work out the trap before it is to be sprung, "Tell me when you are in place for the attack and I'll take him left/right."

 

These tactics work best when you are on some kind of voice chat with the other people you are working with. The level of coordination required is basically unattainable via text and, historically these tactics were developed by the Soviets as their own radio equipment got better or they were able to import planes with good radios in them. 

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Just now, RedRider said:

Any tips? I'm just getting slaughtered out there. I really like the Soviet birds, they seem to have more character. I really like the P-39, I just don't like getting killed constantly -- it's demoralizing when I remember how much easier it was as a german...

 

The Airacobra is interesting, indeed! You can use similar tactics in the P-39 as you would use flying Axis planes. The difference is the engine management, altitude and combat power endurance - it's a bit harder but not impossible.

 

1st you need to set the water radiator to 60% and the oil radiator to 45% - it's the "flush" setting offering lowest drag. You can use it all the time except when flying slow for an extended time when climbing hard or turn fighting for long.

 

2nd your engine has best performance at around 3km or 10K ft - try dragging enemies to this alt especially if the enemy is in the 190.

 

3rd the specs page says otherwise but you can stay at 66% mixture for all power modes (nominal, combat and emergency/WEP).

 

4th the quad 0.30" cals in wings aren't completely useless, however (IMHO), it's worth trade-off to remove them.

 

5th the propeller pitch governor is sluggish just like in the P-40 - beware of over-revving the engine.

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Another thing to keep in mind with the P-39 is that it can dive faster than both the 109 and 190. This can come in handy for securing kills that are trying to dive away or extracting yourself from an awkward situation. The performance of the plane in a strait line falls off compared to the 109's and 190 so you can't just run away, but you can gain some needed separation to turn the tables on them.

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39 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

Glad you're experiencing this from both sides of the coin. It's amazing the number of people who don't try it and then complain endlessly about the Russian types... enough about that. Tactics!

 

Definitely requires a different approach to combat. I am by no means an expert here but I know with the German side you tend to hold the advantage of being able to select your combat moment and pounce when ready. For a Russian pilot you're often faced with attacking 109s (or 190s) coming from above and fast. So you do have to use turn rate, when you have that advantage, as a way to avoid the attacks and try and wear the Bf109 pilot down and bring him down roughly to your altitude level.

 

Try and work on getting the best defensive maneuvering with the least amount of energy use. He may have the altitude/speed advantage at the start but you want to minimize that. Basically you want him to spend more energy trying to attack you than you do defending.

 

One video to check out is Gridiron's 'Entry Level Decision Making' which is a great discussion on decision making, tactics, etc.

 

 

A lot of these videos I see people starting high up above the 109s, basically using boom and zoom themselves. This doesn't take advantage of the down low performance advantage of Soviet birds, and so I'm really confused about how to use the birds at lower altitudes. Your point about frustrating the Germans until they come down to your altitude to play makes sense though.

5 minutes ago, Disarray said:

Another thing to keep in mind with the P-39 is that it can dive faster than both the 109 and 190. This can come in handy for securing kills that are trying to dive away or extracting yourself from an awkward situation. The performance of the plane in a strait line falls off compared to the 109's and 190 so you can't just run away, but you can gain some needed separation to turn the tables on them.

 

Understood. So then should I climb all the way to 5k (or higher) to get above the Germans? I must say im impressed with the 109s turning ability, ive never been able to out turn one so I don't know where all this "Soviets are turn fighters" comes from. Seems to me the 109s can hang with me just as well when it comes to TnB.

Edited by RedRider

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What makes a 'turn fighter' is, I think, poorly understood by many. You are quite right that the 109 can beat a Yak and a LaGG in a turn, but only at lower speeds. The leading edge slats extend the lower end of the stall window for the 109's allowing them to fly quite slow. Yaks and LaGGs don't have leading edge slats and their stall speed is higher as a result of this and other factors. What makes Yaks and LaGGs good turn fighters is their ability to maintain a relatively tight turn at speed. At 350 Kph a Yak can turn harder than a 109 going 350 Kph. In order to follow the Yak the 109 will have to drop some speed and this can be used to the Yak's advantage. This means long turning fights, long as in the diameter of the turns, are in the Yak's favor. If the turns get real tight the 109 will gain an advantage again. This makes forcing over shoots a lot easier in 109's down at low speeds and even moderately skilled players in 109's can do it with a little practice.

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7 minutes ago, Disarray said:

What makes a 'turn fighter' is, I think, poorly understood by many. You are quite right that the 109 can beat a Yak and a LaGG in a turn, but only at lower speeds. The leading edge slats extend the lower end of the stall window for the 109's allowing them to fly quite slow. Yaks and LaGGs don't have leading edge slats and their stall speed is higher as a result of this and other factors. What makes Yaks and LaGGs good turn fighters is their ability to maintain a relatively tight turn at speed. At 350 Kph a Yak can turn harder than a 109 going 350 Kph. In order to follow the Yak the 109 will have to drop some speed and this can be used to the Yak's advantage. This means long turning fights, long as in the diameter of the turns, are in the Yak's favor. If the turns get real tight the 109 will gain an advantage again. This makes forcing over shoots a lot easier in 109's down at low speeds and even moderately skilled players in 109's can do it with a little practice.

 

So keep the speed up then, I gotcha. Yes, usually once I'm slow I'm dead meat...

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41 minutes ago, RedRider said:

 

A lot of these videos I see people starting high up above the 109s, basically using boom and zoom themselves. This doesn't take advantage of the down low performance advantage of Soviet birds, and so I'm really confused about how to use the birds at lower altitudes. Your point about frustrating the Germans until they come down to your altitude to play makes sense though.

 

How low are you flying in these situations? You nearly always benefit by having altitude so even in a Russian fighter you shouldn't be afraid to climb to 4000 meters and try and do battle there. That altitude is still ok for most of the aircraft with the M-105PF engine (Yak-1, Yak-1B, LaGG-3) as its only above that does performance begin to decline dramatically versus the Bf109. You shouldn't fight them at 7000 or 8000 meters but around 4-5000 is still fine. You should still have ample performance there.

 

Of course, if a Bf109 wants to play down at 2000 meters then let them come down to you there too. Keep your speed up, break into attacks, and whittle them down as I said before. Easier said than done but that's the basics of the techniques you need to employ.

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3 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

How low are you flying in these situations? You nearly always benefit by having altitude so even in a Russian fighter you shouldn't be afraid to climb to 4000 meters and try and do battle there. That altitude is still ok for most of the aircraft with the M-105PF engine (Yak-1, Yak-1B, LaGG-3) as its only above that does performance begin to decline dramatically versus the Bf109. You shouldn't fight them at 7000 or 8000 meters but around 4-5000 is still fine. You should still have ample performance there.

 

Of course, if a Bf109 wants to play down at 2000 meters then let them come down to you there too. Keep your speed up, break into attacks, and whittle them down as I said before. Easier said than done but that's the basics of the techniques you need to employ.

Well I've read the cobra sucks above 2k. I do all right with yak 1b at high altitude, but I'd really like to get good at p39. Takes forever to climb though.

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1 minute ago, RedRider said:

Well I've read the cobra sucks above 2k. I do all right with yak 1b at high altitude, but I'd really like to get good at p39. Takes forever to climb though.

 

Mmmm yeah the P-39 is less capable up there than the Yak in my experience. I'm far less capable with the P-39... That's a specialists aircraft for sure. I need to spend more time with that one.

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They're fun if your involved in a ground war with a group, than it's hit fast and run, cover each other.  The game has it's flaws, GCI Radar in the form of flak uselessly firing at solo fighters up at 5K, you'll always know immediately who.  Enemy spawn location intel and your own teams map base attack warning radar.  Highly visible gun tracers and bomb blasts to direct immediate intercepts from altitude over known targets.

 

Knowing that, its always best to stay unseen and ready to pounce from the outer fringes of the vis bubble near any bait.  Your fairly safe as long as you don't trigger any of the alarm/intercept aids and stay distant from any target area and obvious busy flight routes.

 

You'll see it in most of the video's, they see the indicators first, or go sweeping with multiple eyes over known hot spots using the indicators.  Ever notice how most of the video aces are working their own side of the lines?  Stay away from their obvious hunting grounds and aids, make it hard for them to see you, and never allow the free give away of your ID.  Unless your looking for trouble and are playing the bait.  Make your hit and run, unless your in a La-5FN, than fear no single one.

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You fly around and "Cheeki" every direction, when of spot the enemy, you put on the Eurobeat, and "Breeki" like it is 90's again. 

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26 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

They're fun if your involved in a ground war with a group, than it's hit fast and run, cover each other.  The game has it's flaws, GCI Radar in the form of flak uselessly firing at solo fighters up at 5K, you'll always know immediately who.  Enemy spawn location intel and your own teams map base attack warning radar.  Highly visible gun tracers and bomb blasts to direct immediate intercepts from altitude over known targets.

 

Knowing that, its always best to stay unseen and ready to pounce from the outer fringes of the vis bubble near any bait.  Your fairly safe as long as you don't trigger any of the alarm/intercept aids and stay distant from any target area and obvious busy flight routes.

 

You'll see it in most of the video's, they see the indicators first, or go sweeping with multiple eyes over known hot spots using the indicators.  Ever notice how most of the video aces are working their own side of the lines?  Stay away from their obvious hunting grounds and aids, make it hard for them to see you, and never allow the free give away of your ID.  Unless your looking for trouble and are playing the bait.  Make your hit and run, unless your in a La-5FN, than fear no single one.

I want to like the La-5FN, but I can't hit anything with those cannons. I don't know why, even against AI I'll need a few reloads at 300m.

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In the East Front when flying anything that isnt a La-5FN(or in some situations La-5, P-39 or MiG-3) you are likely to find yourself both slower and repeatedly lower than the blues. This will again and again give initiative to the enemy and your hope is in your skill, their overconfidence in wasting their E and committing to turn fights or scissors with their initial E and/or numerical advantage. Flying alone, you are unlikely to win such defensive fights against an organized and disciplined enemy(luckily they wont always be both... or either). Also remember that the 190, unlike 109, in fact does not climb better than Soviet fighters, and if chased away it needs to regain its altitude at a distance.

 

Someone said it above, what you do instead is either climb high enough yourself that you become the bouncer(and then if you dont succeed, you dont overstay your welcome but run home) or you work together with other pilots and layer in height to sandwhich the enemy. Say, you are protecting or attacking ground targets of some kind or maybe escorting Il-2s: 1 or 2 fighters stay fairly low, more at 3-4 k and preferably even more planes above that. All the way to 7000 or even 8000 m. You dont want to fight there, but you definitely can bounce from up there and it messes with enemy plans as they, as you, absolutely hate it when there are higher aircraft right above them and that will make them egress. And if they dont, you bounce and shoot them. It often happens that the bottom planes get attacked first, at which point higher ones get to bounce the enemy in turn. Preferably they get to attack when the enemy is climbing from their attacks, but with sufficient energy advantage its often possible to catch a fleeing 109 even if he dives all the way to deck. If the enemy escapes this trap, you reorganize and try it again. If its the highest fighters that are attacked and they find themselves disadvantaged, they should escape and avoid fighting uphill. You can form up again in for example flak protection of your starting field. If you dont have enough people in voice comms to pull this off, you can use the players of your side as the lower bait by just following them to ground targets and typical fight locations. 😀

 

It can work even better in enemy airspace, as most human players dont expect large numbers of enemies anywhere that isnt in immediately vicinity of airfields or targets. Dont fight them where they expect you, but boldly go to enemy side of the front to hunt them and you will find many more German planes at fairly low altitudes, cruising, and not expecting contact. Especially campaigns like TAW revolve around ground targets so you will find German planes including fights at low altitudes near the targets as well, just beware that they often have higher cover. Cruising at Yak's critical alt of around 4000 m you will have more than enough to E catch anyone at flying beneath you at say 1000 m.

Edited by LeLv76_Erkki

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1 hour ago, RedRider said:

Well I've read the cobra sucks above 2k. I do all right with yak 1b at high altitude, but I'd really like to get good at p39. Takes forever to climb though.

 

The critical altitude for Allison V-1710 in the P-39-L should be around 3500m. The climb performance is better than FWs up to that height when on higher boost levels. Once there the combat power is often enough to keep the distance.

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Allies are little harder yes, add VR and it will be quite a lot harder than with german planes.

You cant watch behind so well, so whoooooshh 109/190s comes from behind and bye bye 😄

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S!

 

 [edited]

 

Best advice have been given in above posts, but always keep speed up and head on a swivel.

Edited by SYN_Haashashin

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This video tutorial of mine with a Spit vs a G-14 showcases a good way of controlling a fight from an energy disadvantage and maneuvering advantage: 

 

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Depending on server you fly, just climb climb climb......don't let axis have their alt advantage.

Once you spot the enemy be careful in a dive to not to lose your ailerons with yak.

Keep an alt advantage!

Similar like with 109!

 

If you are lower than 109 than maintain your speed and climb slowly after him, once he engage you wait till he get closer than go in a turn and he will overshoot you.

Decrease the energy advantage gap and wait till he make a mistake, after he overshoot ypu there is a small window of opportunity to aim on him and damage him.

You can also drag him down on the deck where your plane have better performance.

Once low ypu can easily chase him by managing your rads to gain max speed.

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The tactics employed in Talon's video are very useful; very well explained as well. Do keep in mind, though that results will vary. A Yak or LA are going to behave differently in those maneuvers. The over all idea will likely work but the fine point may have to be a little changed here or there. If you can set aside the time spend a bit of time in the planes you find yourself in the most on the Soviet side and push them as far as you can in various maneuvers. This will help you find the various limits to maneuver and allow you to employ them in combat with confidence; this goes for German planes too I suppose. If you can't find the time and also fly with other people bombing around the spawn AF while waiting for them to get off the ground can get the job done, it is also a fun way to kill time.

 

The cannons on the LA 5 can be a bit tricky to get used to. For me the issue was I was aiming them like the cannon on Yaks and LaGGs, the two types I had flown the most at the time. At first this made sense to me, they are the same gun after all so they should aim the same. And while it is true, they are the same gun, they are also mounted about 2 feet higher in the plane, under the upper cowling rather than in the prop hub. This changes the way the rounds fly, giving them a very flat trajectory as compared to the prop hub mounted guns. The end result is you need to aim more directly at the target, a lot like you do with the MG's on a Yak in fact. The rounds fly very slightly slower than MG rounds, 20-50 m/s slower. This changes the lead you need to give the guns just a little bit. Once you get the hang of the guns you will likely find that being able to lay a pair of 20 mm shells right next to each other is very bad for the plane on the receiving end. Shooting at bots is a good way to figure out gun handling I find; they are much more cooperative than real people in this way.

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Thanks guys, that all helped very well. Now I'm consistently getting at least some kills on each map of WoL (sure wish we saw Kuban more often).

 

It's like 500% easier with a formation partner. This going it alone stuff is tough, but can be done. I put the P-39 aside for a bit and concentrated on La-5/5FN, Mig-3 and just today tried the Spitfire VB. The Spit feels slow as molasses, but down low in a furball... good god that thing can maneuver. 

 

Oh, and full armor piercing belts on the La-5 birds are now my favorite. They never see it coming!!!

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LOL I wish more idiot axis pilots would reads the OP's post instead of screaming foul play all the time.

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3 hours ago, AeroAce said:

LOL I wish more idiot axis pilots would reads the OP's post instead of screaming foul play all the time.

 

Well, I did struggle with Axis aircraft but I didn't cry foul play. And when I switched to flying the Yak-1 I racked up a huge kill score pretty effortlessly, so I can't say I share the OPs experience. Maybe it's just a playstyle difference, but even if Axis have some theoretical superiority it is much, much harder to put that into practice and be successful in a typical battle on WoL. Maybe the OP had issues specifically with the P-39 (I haven't flown it) or La (strong but doesn't turn as well), but with the Yak the tactic is basically "see attack, stick back" and most of the time it just works. Maybe that's due to more "idiot axis pilots" but that's my experience.

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Looking at Talon's video, I think it shows a good approach to denying the enemy his game (though obviously more complicated if others arrive). One of the great mistakes is trying to climb up underneath an attacking fighter that is using altitude: this plays right into his hands as it limits your horizontal separation and he can keep climbing and dividing steeply which you will find difficulty in countering.

 

Mover away as far as you can (like Talon did), then the attacker has to dive in a a longer, shallower angle which is easier to see and gives you more options to counter.

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1 hour ago, =X51=VC_ said:

 

Well, I did struggle with Axis aircraft but I didn't cry foul play. And when I switched to flying the Yak-1 I racked up a huge kill score pretty effortlessly, so I can't say I share the OPs experience. Maybe it's just a playstyle difference, but even if Axis have some theoretical superiority it is much, much harder to put that into practice and be successful in a typical battle on WoL. Maybe the OP had issues specifically with the P-39 (I haven't flown it) or La (strong but doesn't turn as well), but with the Yak the tactic is basically "see attack, stick back" and most of the time it just works. Maybe that's due to more "idiot axis pilots" but that's my experience.

 

Yak-1B is indeed a killing machine in 1v1 at low altitudes, but find yourself in a say 4 vs 4 situation (109 or 190) at some 3 or 4 km altitude and all you'll be doing will be using the fabulous rear view to try and postpone your demise. That's my experience at least.

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1 hour ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Mover away as far as you can (like Talon did), then the attacker has to dive in a a longer, shallower angle which is easier to see and gives you more options to counter.

 

Just to add to this

 

Most importantly the long shallow angle brings both of your planes into a very high-drag situation where you yourself are burning lots of energy into drag, but the opponent through trying to maintain closure is burning energy at a higher rate:

 

image.png.7d4e513d65409ae1147bbec8997c6498.png

 

Two planes travelling above max speed both naturally trend down towards their max speeds, and for fighter vs fighter normally that speed difference isn't really all that much - certainly it's more favourable than the guy diving straight down from 1km above you and zooming away. A long shallow dive pulls both aircraft towards their maximum speeds and similar altitudes which usually makes for a much closer energy differential. The shallow dive is the bait, and the opponent takes it by going from 400kph at 6km vs 350kph at 5km to 450kph at 3km vs 420kph at 3km.

 

Consider an extremely simple way of summing energy and simply add speed to altitude with "e" as "unit of energy", that gives us:

 

6400e vs 5350e becoming 3450e vs 3420e - the differential has dropped from 1050e to only 30e.

Edited by Talon_

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Just now, EAF19_Marsh said:

Looking at Talon's video, I think it shows a good approach to denying the enemy his game (though obviously more complicated if others arrive). One of the great mistakes is trying to climb up underneath an attacking fighter that is using altitude: this plays right into his hands as it limits your horizontal separation and he can keep climbing and dividing steeply which you will find difficulty in countering.

 

It is tricky but sometimes it can be done - climb but keep some velocity in a reserve. The moment the enemy reverses to dive on you can pull-up to spoil the attack. Then reverse yourself to gain an angle on then the fast but much lower enemy.

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5 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Looking at Talon's video, I think it shows a good approach to denying the enemy his game (though obviously more complicated if others arrive). One of the great mistakes is trying to climb up underneath an attacking fighter that is using altitude: this plays right into his hands as it limits your horizontal separation and he can keep climbing and dividing steeply which you will find difficulty in countering.

 

Mover away as far as you can (like Talon did), then the attacker has to dive in a a longer, shallower angle which is easier to see and gives you more options to counter.

 

Respectfully, you and I saw entirely different videos.

 

Talon's bandit was incredibly benign, during that entire video he only threatened Talon once taking his snapshot and overshooting. There is NO descending pressure if you have allowed the bandit behind your 3-9 line. There is NO climbing pressure if you have allowed the bandit behind your 3-9 line. In the world of RL fighter pilots (even a former Jurassic era one like me), one can only apply pressure when your nose (guns) are somewhere in the general direction of the bandit and near his turn circle. Talon successfully coaxed a cooperative bandit to come down in a long tail chase. 

 

Face it, that 109 guy (or gal) was not much of a threat. At the 2:50 mark where Talon could have continued his turn into the bandit and gained the 3-9 line advantage, he reversed away from the 109 giving up turning room. And yet the 109 guy chose not to engage, or didn't recognize Talon turned the wrong way (giving up a chance to apply REAL pressure).

 

Talon fought a successful engagement against a terrible bandit. And of course, "a kill's a kill." My critique is NOT an ad hominem attack on Talon's intelligence (his maths and physics acumen are apparent) or his 1G Comfy Chair Fighter Pilot skill set. I'm saying it would be a mistake to think this video is an exemplar on how to fight a smart adversary. 

 

Standing by for incoming...

 

 

 

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It is hard to judge distances on a video, but I have to admit that when I watched the film I thought that given how far away Talon had seen the bandit I would just have turned straight at him. In effect asking him if he wants to party head on: especially over my own base.   The Spitfire has much better fire-power and would then be climbing. If the 109 flinches away at least you have gained some height.  Once you let someone close behind you with a speed advantage you are only going to get out of trouble if the enemy makes a bad mistake.   

 

I tend to find many of these ACM videos to be a bit too clever. If I am at a disadvantage I just want to point my weapons at the enemy at the first available opportunity, worry about energy later.  That is probably the infantry training coming out.... ;)  

 

 

 

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Respectfully, you and I saw entirely different videos.

 

Not really -  the video is illustrative of avoiding the temptation to climb up to a bandit but instead gain horizontal separation in order to deny his game and open yours. Whether or not that video was the best example or not is another matter, but staying under someone with height advantage and trying to climb each time you are out of their WEZ is very tempting, but ultimately a dangerous way to operate.

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10 hours ago, =X51=VC_ said:

 

Well, I did struggle with Axis aircraft but I didn't cry foul play. And when I switched to flying the Yak-1 I racked up a huge kill score pretty effortlessly, so I can't say I share the OPs experience. Maybe it's just a playstyle difference, but even if Axis have some theoretical superiority it is much, much harder to put that into practice and be successful in a typical battle on WoL. Maybe the OP had issues specifically with the P-39 (I haven't flown it) or La (strong but doesn't turn as well), but with the Yak the tactic is basically "see attack, stick back" and most of the time it just works. Maybe that's due to more "idiot axis pilots" but that's my experience.

 

Theoretical advantages? I didn't know having better speed (both strait line and diving), acceleration, climb rate and lower stalling speed were just a theory. I'm fairly confident that these are all proven facts. Granted you can't outrun a bullet but you can't have everything now can you. I've never understood why some of these blue fighter jocks insist that their planes aren't as good as they are and that they don't have clear advantages over Soviet planes.

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11 minutes ago, Disarray said:

 

Theoretical advantages? I didn't know having better speed (both strait line and diving), acceleration, climb rate and lower stalling speed were just a theory. I'm fairly confident that these are all proven facts. Granted you can't outrun a bullet but you can't have everything now can you. I've never understood why some of these blue fighter jocks insist that their planes aren't as good as they are and that they don't have clear advantages over Soviet planes.

 

That's not exactly what I meant. Of course those are real hard fact advantages. What I meant was, in my experience, it's harder to put those advantages into practice than e.g. excellent turn rate. It's no use being the highest and fastest if you can't see or hit anything, and the kind of low altitude furballs that happen all the time on WoL basically force you to give up those advantages if you want a chance at actually being involved in the fight and getting kills. Most Soviet fighters on the other hand thrive on that melee.

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Those fights happen low precisely because the Soviet fighters can compete there. There is no point taking a Yak up to 5 Km where you will just get your face smashed. But a 109 can still easily make use of its advantages. I was playing last night and I couldn't get 109's or 190's to fight for love nor money. They might swoop in to make an 'attack' every now and then, but actual combat? No, never. I don't know, it must be fun flying around in a combat sim not having any combat. I guess it is safe, at least.

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Avoiding combat is not the point but using ones aircraft strengths and avoiding its' weaknesses is just wise airmanship. Never play into the enemy crafts strength and into your owns weaknesses.

 

Using a Boom N Zoom aircraft in a prolonged turning fight with a turn fighter is just unwise and usually deadly. 😕

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80% of time the better position wins. Here Axis planes have a tremendous advantage - the long and and still quite strong engine combat modes. The bounce failed in the 190? So what - extend and repeat, or return to base, or.., or indulge in turn-fight. The initiative is a great asset.

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