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Ceowulf

AI is not attacking at all in QMB

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Guys, 

This must be something I'm doing or you would all have noticed.  I just set up a whole number of different quick missions with Ace enemy and could not get shot down while trying to give them every chance.   Only one even shot at me and he missed.  They just fly around like drones. 

 

I probably tried 15 combinations and made sure no dumb thing was happening like no ammo, etc.  I actually worked hard to give them ideal shots - flew my lone spad at 1/3 throttle on level flight right around and under 8 Dr 1s until I was bored, for example.  

 

What is going on?  I can't believe I'm the first one to notice this which almost makes me wonder if I have some setting messed up, but what?

 

Important Edit:  AI on Shooting Stars server is a whole different thing (fun and aggressive) so it's not the AI in general, it's something in QMB.

 

Ceowulf<><

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ceowulf

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I agree, the Shooting Stars AI seem more aggressive and will take snap shots at you, unlike the QMB idiots that will fly a bit, but in general are like shooting fish in a barrel.

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Try on Random AI or one of the other settings. Perhaps Ace "knows" it cannot catch a SPAD in a Dr.1 so it does not bother.

 

  I have been messing around in QMB 8 Dr.1s vs 8 Dr.1s with random AI and have been shot down a couple of times by AI I did not see: hard to keep SA with 16 crazed bumble-bees  in the air. They are definitely trying to have a go. It is a hoot. Must try to set up a 30 vs 30 mission in the ME....

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I had 4x4 using Dr1 Vs 4x SPAD, and can concur the AI never seems to even attempt to attack me except on rare occasions. 

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One question: Does the AI not attack you, or does it simply not hit you?

 

What I have experienced so far when it comes to fighting WWI AIs is that the flight behaviour has been greatly improved (AI flies scissors, goes vertical and makes use of the planes individual strengths, like doing less turn fighting in the fast SPAD, etc.), but has lost alot of accuracy when it comes to gunnery, which will hopefully be adressed.

 

Definitely no comparison to the sniper-like marksmanship of RoF's AI.

Edited by Fritz_X

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2 hours ago, Fritz_X said:

One question: Does the AI not attack you, or does it simply not hit you?

 

What I have experienced so far when it comes to fighting WWI AIs is that the flight behaviour has been greatly improved (AI flies scissors, goes vertical and makes use of the planes individual strengths, like doing less turn fighting in the fast SPAD, etc.), but has lost alot of accuracy when it comes to gunnery, which will hopefully be adressed.

 

Definitely no comparison to the sniper-like marksmanship of RoF's AI.

 

It has certainly hit me, but that was in 8v8 where it becomes very difficult to see where every enemy is, especially when they are all Dr.1s :) 

 

I agree about the AI - I find it improved remarkably. But if AI shooting accuracy is reduced let us hope that it is not "adressed". The last thing we want is novice AI who could flawlessly line up and hit a 90 degree deflection shot from 500m every time.  AI should miss most of the time, even on Ace, unless you let them get very close or fly straight and level, in which case you deserve to die. 

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14 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

I agree about the AI - I find it improved remarkably. But if AI shooting accuracy is reduced let us hope that it is not "adressed". The last thing we want is novice AI who could flawlessly line up and hit a 90 degree deflection shot from 500m every time.  AI should miss most of the time, even on Ace, unless you let them get very close or fly straight and level, in which case you deserve to die. 

 

I'm positive that there's nobody out there who'd like to see RoF's sniping, always aiming for the pilot AI back.

 

Right now I feel like that the AI gunnery could use a buff, especially at veteran and ace level. Flying against 4 ace SPADs all by yourself in a Dr.1 is tons of fun, especially due to the AI making use of lots of different manouvers and for the fact alone that they stay at higher altitudes to fight.

 

But for now it feels like they're not able to hit you properly, even if you fly at average speed in a straight line. I actually tried that out, when I got the feeling that they had major troubles to land their hits on me when I flew combat manouvers. And yes, of course they manage to gun you down after a while, but so far it always took them quite a while to inflict structural damage to my Dr.1, mostly by destroying my upper wing.

 

But so far not a single AI bullet hit my pilot, no matter how hard I tried to be an easy target.

Edited by Fritz_X

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@Fritz_X Other people have mentioned trouble with the SPAD AI, so I am absolutely not trying to say there is nothing there.  But before assuming that it is gunnery accuracy as such try a 8v8 Dr1 vs Dr1 engagement in QMB. Apart from it being funny (at least to me :) ) I think you will find that the AI has no trouble getting hits on you if you are careless. I have been wounded twice in this scenario.

 

So what is happening in the SPAD vs Dr.1 may be a more complex than just gunnery accuracy. There will be other planes coming along too: if you get an increase in AI accuracy now you may well regret it later. 

Edited by unreasonable

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Not everyone will welcome an improved AI accuracy patch if it every surfaces. Certainly not me. I believe it should be an option and not the norm like games that have rookie, veteran, and impossibly hard levels.

 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, yaan98 said:

Not everyone will welcome an improved AI accuracy patch if it every surfaces. Certainly not me. I believe it should be an option and not the norm like games that have rookie, veteran, and impossibly hard levels.

 

 

 

Agreed, and anyway it is premature. The game has a range of AI levels that affect gunnery, flight behaviour and SA.  These have evolved from RoF into BoX and now they have to bed in with FC. We will get a clearer picture with a larger plane set.

 

SPADS in RoF were always an issue for the AI to fight - let us just give it some time before we assume that there is an AI accuracy issue.  If there is an issue it might be something else entirely.

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Something is broken for me, it isn’t just subjectively bad AI.  The ace will not attack me at all in most any missions.  One fired at me only once as a matter of fact. (He missed as it happens but that’s not the point.)

 

In many missions I flew level and so slow I could barely stay airborne  and that for many minutes while  the enemy circled randomly around me.  I only turned so as to stay with the pack of them, trying to give them a perfect target.   It’s like I’m not there.  

 

It’s something in QMB, a bug maybe, because the AI in Shooting Stars expert server is pretty good.  (At least the Spads are, I only flew our awesome new Dr1.  Thanks Devs!)

 

If you guys are getting shot at, maybe it’s just the ace setting or some other variable.  I’ll try more later in the week.  

 

Ceowulf<><   

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24 minutes ago, Space_Ghost said:

In 3/4 engagements against Spads they just outrun my Dr.I and head for home field as soon as I unpause.

 

Did you actually watch how they returned to their base or did you assume they did after them flying away from you? I experienced the same behaviour when I tried FC for the first time, making me think the AI was bugged and simply ignoring me.

 

The AI seemingly tries to fly the SPAD mainly as an energy fighter. It does only little turn fighting and seems to start attack runs on the player only if the distance to the player is big enough.

 

I experienced how the SPADs returned to attack me after already getting a rather absurd distance away from me.

Edited by Fritz_X

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20 minutes ago, Fritz_X said:

 

Did you actually watch how they returned to their base or did you assume they did after them flying away from you? I experienced the same behaviour when I tried FC for the first time, making me think the AI was bugged and simply ignoring me.

 

The AI seemingly tries to fly the SPAD mainly as an energy fighter. It does only little turn fighting and seems to start attack runs on the player only if the distance to the player is big enough.

 

I experienced how the SPADs returned to attack me after already getting a rather absurd distance away from me.

 

I trailed them for 30 minutes back to their airfield where they attempted landing - I got shot down by AA at the field.

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For me the german AI will attack when I am in an SPAD, but if I am in a Dr.1 the enemy doesent seem to do anything...

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I noticed this also. Perhaps the SPAD has properly implemented French AI? :P

 

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I can't think of any reason why this would be the case, but could it be the map? I'm finding markedly different conduct by the enemy ai on the Kuban map than I was finding on the Lapino map. Furious dogfights on the Lapino map, can't get the enemy to engage on the Kuban map.    ???

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Hey, it was the Kuban map for me too.  Didnt try others yet.  Also, Shooting Stars expert server in MP did use Lapino and the AI was working.  

 

Wish I had time to test.  Blasted real life obligations.   Please all, post observations.  

 

Ceowulf<><   

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I think I may have been on the Kuban map when the Spads completely disregarded me.

 

Just to give a little more insite:

- QMB

- 2 DR.Is (one AI, one player)

- 3 Spad XIIs

- 1KM altitude

- 2KM separation

- Head on approach

 

The three Spads dove under us, looped back in the opposite direction and the AI DR.I and I spent 30 minutes chasing them back to their field. Spads kept around 5KM of separation until we caught up with them at their field. Spads entered their landing routine while continuing to disregard us. I attempted to strafe one on the field but was promptly shot down by AA.

Edited by Space_Ghost

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Did some more flying this morning. AI enemy Spads are unwilling to fight against my friendly Fokkers on the Kuban map. On the Lapino map, with the same Quick Battle settings they are eager to fight. So the map choice is definitely a factor.

 

On the Kuban map, Fokkers on both sides will fight. I don't have a clue why the Aircraft/Map combination makes such a difference.

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Well, all I tried was the Lapino map, but enemy SPADs consistently dove out of combat after the first engagement, only to return when they are out of range. Obviously, no hope of catching them in a Dr1.

Smells like fishy AI - or maybe just using the power advantage properly?

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12 hours ago, Milopapa said:

Well, all I tried was the Lapino map, but enemy SPADs consistently dove out of combat after the first engagement, only to return when they are out of range. Obviously, no hope of catching them in a Dr1.

Smells like fishy AI - or maybe just using the power advantage properly?

 

I have to agree with Trup.

 

The way the AI currently handles the SPAD is pretty much how it should be flown, especially against a much slower opponent like the Dr.1.

 

Of course I can't say if this behaviour is exactly as the devs planned it or if the current AI routine just shows this behaviour 'by accident', which actually doesn't really matter, since the outcome feels very believable.

 

I for myself enjoy it alot. Yes, of course it is tougher to down a SPAD that only goes for energy fighting, but why should the AI try to outturn a Dr.1 in a SPAD anyway? No halfway experienced player would do that and AI-wise we already had enough of this back in RoF.

Edited by Fritz_X
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Brave Sir Robin said it best - people want AI to lose  after putting up a good fight. Dr.I is pretty hopeless against Spad if Spad pilots makes no mistakes... which AI isn't making now.

 

AI generally is avoiding hopeless fights at the moment. Best way to get Spad AI in Dr.I is to dive on it when it's occupied with another Dr.I. Except, on Shooting Stars Dr.I AIs keep killing Spad AIs, I wonder how they do that... 

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Set random AI for Spads , there will be some who will enter turn fight , just because they "think" that yours Dr1 is to close to it six after break and reverse and extending in shallow dive is no option.  Real players can dive straight down with Spad,  that would be next trick to teach AI if in emergency.

Edited by 307_Tomcat

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