Jump to content
Blitzen

Over my shoulder view in VR BoX

Recommended Posts

The two new Great War planes emphasize a problem I’ve been having with Rift & I suspect I’m not alone.No its not the hardware or software but it is the simple task of trying to look over my shoulder to see what’s on my 5-7 O’clock. Let me explain: I use rudder pedals so I have to keep my feet on them ,which means I cannot “swivel” my chair and I find I do not have the flexibility in my neck or waist to turn far enough ( no ..I am in reasonably good shape flexibility-wise,)to see what’s back there coming up to kill me. This is not good.In TrackIR this wasn’t a problem...you could with the right setting get a good look behind even in ,say, a P-40 and it really worked well in RoF as well.Now with the open cockpit aircraft ( including the I-16) it seems impossible to get my head far enough around to check my six. I imagine this might be due to the field of vision limitations of the current goggles ( I understand the next generation will have a wider field of view..) but I may be wrong.Does any one have further information or some kind of fix? I & I imagine others would be grateful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blitzen this has been the subject of numerous discussions so your far from the only one experiencing this issue.

 

Like you mentioned it's partly the current gen HMD field of view limit, but to a large extent it's also a trackir issue. While we take one step further towards realism, trackir users keep a very unrealistic owl-head feature. Anyone that sat strapped in a  ww2 or similllar aircraft knows checking your six is an far from easy even with a real world peripheral vision. 

I use a joystick with an analog thumb-stick for rudder next to the hat-switch. This way I can still control rudder while swivelling. 

Edited by SvAF/F16_radek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I am in Groundhog Day, could have swore I replied to this topic - maybe also posted in another thread?

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well , i dont know wether I understand u right - I have Rift - but my limitation is my body - in game , with Rudder pedals , I can Quick swirvvel round  and look 'six' 

 

Of course not stay There , but quickly back  again to my Rudder  ( close my ejes and wait for shoot down 😱😉)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seem to remember there was talk a few months ago about Oculus testing "eye-ball "tracking which would help in these sort of VR situations.It also wasn't lost on me that actual WW2 pilots tightly strapped into WW2 cockpits would have real trouble tracking their six even if they had bubble canopies.😱

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

I seem to remember there was talk a few months ago about Oculus testing "eye-ball "tracking which would help in these sort of VR situations.It also wasn't lost on me that actual WW2 pilots tightly strapped into WW2 cockpits would have real trouble tracking their six even if they had bubble canopies.😱

 

Yes FB/Oculus bought an eye tracking company some time ago, with this in mind.

Whether we see it in the next generation product or later remains to be seen.

 

I think they are working on some very exciting stuff for the next gen PC-VR.  Just matter of when and what they can deliver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Blitzen said:

The two new Great War planes emphasize a problem I’ve been having with Rift & I suspect I’m not alone.No its not the hardware or software but it is the simple task of trying to look over my shoulder to see what’s on my 5-7 O’clock. Let me explain: I use rudder pedals so I have to keep my feet on them ,which means I cannot “swivel” my chair and I find I do not have the flexibility in my neck or waist to turn far enough ( no ..I am in reasonably good shape flexibility-wise,)to see what’s back there coming up to kill me. This is not good.In TrackIR this wasn’t a problem...you could with the right setting get a good look behind even in ,say, a P-40 and it really worked well in RoF as well.Now with the open cockpit aircraft ( including the I-16) it seems impossible to get my head far enough around to check my six. I imagine this might be due to the field of vision limitations of the current goggles ( I understand the next generation will have a wider field of view..) but I may be wrong.Does any one have further information or some kind of fix? I & I imagine others would be grateful.

 

I use a bit of a work-around for this that you may or may not find acceptable. It's one that I don't use often, but occasionally.

 

I have a button mapped on my joystick to center my view. Let's say I want to turn my head to the right and look at the 5 o'clock position. I look to the forward left and press the center view button. This has the effect of essentially shifting the entire aircraft to the left relative to my body. Then it is easy to turn my head the extra needed to reach that 5 o'clock view. After checking that view, I turn my head straight ahead and repress the center view button. Look forward right and press the center view if you want to check the 7 o'clock position.

 

I know it's kind of clumsy and doesn't enhance immersion. But it is good way to achieve a quick look in a direction that might otherwise put undo strain on the neck, and makes up for some of the lack of peripheral vision inherent in my Vive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've more or less gotten used to this by doing the following (full sim pit, no spinning office chair tricks):

 

1. Take your feet off the rudder pedals (possibly not an option for WW1 planes?)

2. Twist your legs as far left as possible(not much, I bump into my throttle pretty quick), then your torso, and finally your head. I pretty much end up sitting sideways while still holding the joystick with my right hand.

 

I can look over my left shoulder, while still flying with the joystick pretty easily. Rudder pedals aren't really needed for a quick six check unless you want to do some really fancy moves to get them off your six. I definitely can't do the same over my right shoulder, but there isn't really a need most of the time for just checking six. If I really wanted to, I could probably get used to holding the joystick with my other hand to check right side. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah checking right side 6 is definitely more difficult in VR with hands and feet still on the controls. Left 6 you can drop the throttle to help twist the torso a bit. 

 

Just kick a bit of rudder and then look. No more turning the head like an owl with zero negatives.

 

No swivel chair for me. I found it pissed me off having an unrealistic rotation ability so I went for a fixed chair. (Each to their own) Also a medium back chair means I dont get the VR cable dragging on the chair when wildly checking 6 as I often have to. 

 

The difficulty of checking 6 means I am frequently bounced though due to laziness, something that probably occurred in real life as well.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course with VR going for me, I could always let George take the wheel ...er ...stick, and step out on the wing to take a peek at my six  couldn't I ?!😉

download.jpg

george.jpg

Instrument Manufacturers-Smiths-1936-18556.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we revisit this issue?

 

I'd enjoy my VR experience more if hat switch views worked in VR.

 

Have I missed something?

 

Wanna check rudder operation before take-off?.... hit the six view and see it in 3d.

 

Fine, limit that in whatever on-line arenas you want... give a score penalty....whatever.

 

It's tedious physically having to turn constantly in meaningless off-line play or in an arena that might otherwise offer the option.

 

[ahem.  I'm sure some of you VR aviators know of other sims where that option is available.]

 

regards,

 

Airman T. E. Shaw

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the same problem. My squadron leader suggested I take up yoga. He might be right.

 

Some folks deliberately use an office chair with a few degrees of "give" in the rotation. That can help a bit. One guy I know was using a hacked PSVR with extra rotation built into it, kinda crazy but that kind of thing might work. Alternatively you can look left 45 degrees, hit the center view button, look 45 degrees right and magically you're looking behind you. I don't think I can recommend that really though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

welcome to the realistic world, my friend. :)

 

I just learned to live with the physical limitations. And really the only way to fight it is by constantly checking your 5 and 7 so you don't end up with someone on your 6. :)   

 

The most annoying and 'arcade' gaming feeling I get in this game is when I'm on 6 of some track-ir guy who puts his view at snap-back 6 o'clock and watches my every move to fire, essentially while flying backwards avoiding my fire every .5 seconds. It's rather impossible to do in VR.. ahem realism. Even with 170 degree Fov that'll be impossible. It's the same track-ir guys that complain that P47 can be downed with 2 x 20mm shells in the main room claiming it's not realistic.

Edited by moosya
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/25/2018 at 2:42 PM, moosya said:

The most annoying and 'arcade' gaming feeling I get in this game is when I'm on 6 of some track-ir guy who puts his view at snap-back 6 o'clock and watches my every move to fire, essentially while flying backwards avoiding my fire every .5 seconds. It's rather impossible to do in VR.. ahem realism. Even with 170 degree Fov that'll be impossible. It's the same track-ir guys that complain that P47 can be downed with 2 x 20mm shells in the main room claiming it's not realistic.

 

VR-only server setting? (I'm only half kidding).

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/26/2018 at 6:20 AM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

We fly only in teams. My wingman is checking my six, and I am checking his.😎🤝😎

 

Yes, flying in VR without a wingman watching your six lowers your virtal pilot life expectancy considerably.

 

I get bounced so often flying alone in VR, just as I should. Wouldn't change a thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the nice things of VR is exactly that, you are closer to the "real thing" limitations.

I also use fixed chair, no tricks and feel the "suspense".  :unsure:

 

more here: 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have any problem checking my 6, but i'm in very good shape.

Maybe 10 min of excercises a day will make you far more flexible, you could say you are more healthy due to pc games.

Edited by kramer
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would hope that eventually they improve head tracking for VR by adding a sensor and curve settings just like TrackIR works. It's hard to believe that all theses VR companies over looked such an important feature...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Warpig said:

I would hope that eventually they improve head tracking for VR by adding a sensor and curve settings just like TrackIR works. It's hard to believe that all theses VR companies over looked such an important feature...

 

I personally would not like anything like that - 1:1 head tracking only for me with VR.

Kind of what VR is about.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I agree. Larger fov not multiplying rotation as this would probably be either barf-inducing or just very disconnecting. 

 

It’s track-ir that needs fixing, for the sake of realism ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Warpig said:

I would hope that eventually they improve head tracking for VR by adding a sensor and curve settings just like TrackIR works. It's hard to believe that all theses VR companies over looked such an important feature...

 

10 minutes ago, SvAF/F16_radek said:

Yes I agree. Larger fov not multiplying rotation as this would probably be either barf-inducing or just very disconnecting. 

 

It’s track-ir that needs fixing, for the sake of realism ;)

 

Yep, wait until you try VR and you will see why this is not such a great idea. 🤮

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It made sense with Track IR. You had to really because you are looking at a smaller image on a monitor, and always had to keep eyes fixated on the monitor.

So one could only move their head so far and still be able to keep eyes on the monitor. Now being able to adjust it to an owl head view was kind of out there, as no one can

really swivel their head all around to look directly on their six or even beyond. This part was and is unrealistic.

 

VR - well you are in the darn airplane, everything full size and scenery everywhere you turn your head. No matter which way you turn your view follows along right with you naturally.

Only way to do it is with 1:1 tracking really, for all VR games.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been finding that stretching daily, and before games helps. The FoV limitation is an issue, so I do end up taking my feet off of the pedals to check six usually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I fly VR exclusively. To better check my six I took the arms off my chair to allow me to swivel a little to look over my shoulders without contacting my desk.

IRL pilots were not able to look directly behind themselves. They were strapped into tiny cockpits with limited mobility. Their goggles would offer the same fov as a VR head set.

I don't see how a flight sim or game could be more realistic than what we have in IL*2 GB series in VR. The beauty and genius of what we have is often over shadowed by the petty bickering over fuel octane availability and claims of nerfed ammo etc. We are blessed to have this fantastic entertainment experience available at our finger tips and in our own homes.

 

I'll be 71 in a few weeks. My first job was pulling phone cable into remote Appalachian Virginia replacing iron wire and cross bars leading to homes with crank wall mounted phones. Spent 12 years in the Army and saw a great deal of SE Asia thru a gun sight (wearing goggles). 

Sometimes good to take a short break and look around and see where we are today. 

 

 

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Gordon200 said:

I fly VR exclusively. To better check my six I took the arms off my chair to allow me to swivel a little to look over my shoulders without contacting my desk.

IRL pilots were not able to look directly behind themselves. They were strapped into tiny cockpits with limited mobility. Their goggles would offer the same fov as a VR head set.

I don't see how a flight sim or game could be more realistic than what we have in IL*2 GB series in VR. The beauty and genius of what we have is often over shadowed by the petty bickering over fuel octane availability and claims of nerfed ammo etc. We are blessed to have this fantastic entertainment experience available at our finger tips and in our own homes.

 

I'll be 71 in a few weeks. My first job was pulling phone cable into remote Appalachian Virginia replacing iron wire and cross bars leading to homes with crank wall mounted phones. Spent 12 years in the Army and saw a great deal of SE Asia thru a gun sight (wearing goggles). 

Sometimes good to take a short break and look around and see where we are today. 

 

 

Seriously these are first world problems on an epic scale. The fact that I can take a dump in my own home with the heat on and not have to go outside to a wooden shack in the freezing cold usually reminds me of how far we've come. Indoor plumbing is the greatest thing ever.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 392FS_Jred said:

Seriously these are first world problems on an epic scale. The fact that I can take a dump in my own home with the heat on and not have to go outside to a wooden shack in the freezing cold usually reminds me of how far we've come. Indoor plumbing is the greatest thing ever.

 

Plumbing! Plumbing!

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it would be great to at least have a 6 snap view for VR to level the playing field somewhat with TIR and regular snap view players in more competitive servers..... I see people telling  other people how they should play in VR ....If you like VR without a rear snap view don't use it...its that simple and it sure would help without having to buy an office chair ;)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The upcoming Pimax VR will increase POV to 200 ( up from current Rift & Samsung 110,) which should greatly improve things.Of course we have to wait to see what that really means in game ( yes I’ve pre-ordered but it may take 90 days to get Ir...) and it will be at substantially higher cost as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The actual FOV at the highest setting will be 170 and most will have to play at 150 or 110 for frames ......But that's really neither here nor there the six snap would be nice for users of headsets we have at the moment....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, HellCat_ said:

I think it would be great to at least have a 6 snap view for VR to level the playing field somewhat with TIR and regular snap view players in more competitive servers..... I see people telling  other people how they should play in VR ....If you like VR without a rear snap view don't use it...its that simple and it sure would help without having to buy an office chair ;)

 

That would be the best solution. It was a mistake to disable the rear view and external view buttons. In racing sims I can use all kinds of external view buttons. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BlackMambaMowTin said:

 

That would be the best solution. It was a mistake to disable the rear view and external view buttons. In racing sims I can use all kinds of external view buttons. 

 

External views are not disabled in VR, unless flying in Expert Mode. I use Custom Mode so I can have my external views- only fly in SP.

But yes no snap views.

I could not imagine using them, but that is just me. I like the 1:1 tracking with all the pros and cons that come with it.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

External views are not disabled in VR, unless flying in Expert Mode. I use Custom Mode so I can have my external views- only fly in SP.

But yes no snap views.

I could not imagine using them, but that is just me. I like the 1:1 tracking with all the pros and cons that come with it.

 

 

I can imagine using 6 snap view but that's just me . I like to take a quick look at my six like TIR and 2D snapview users in multiplayer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If this is some consolation, VR checking six its pretty accurate compared to flying a real warbird and checking six.

I fly a real wabird, you are strapped tightly with 5 point harness you cant move much.

Getting close to gunsight? , no chance, the limits in game are good around the cockpit glad they took care of the bump sound.

 

Checking six I did it on purpose while flying,  and was just like in VR is with the FOV we have now.

In the plane you are strapped tightly , in your gaming with VR you can move your shoulders, and your chair a bit if swivels, that compensates for the lower FOV, so at the end checking 6 its pretty realistic.

 

A disadvantage in MP against Track IR yes, dont care too much.

Larger  FOV headsets will help.

Here is a video, not checking 6 but strapped in.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

23 minutes ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

A disadvantage in MP against Track IR yes, dont care too much.

Totally understand ...I don't think anyone who is asking for a check 6 snap view has disputed that VR is pretty realistic ...but a lot of people "do care". 
Maybe because of physical  limitations and or seats/pits and or age and or just to stay competitive and would like to be able to check six quickly in mp like TIR and snap view users while enjoying VR.

It's hard for me to understand why when someone posts that they would like to have this ability people immediately post answers on why the don't think you should want it or have it  ..... If it was there most of us who battle on multiplayer servers would use it just as non VR users use it unrealistically every day . 

Someday I hope it would be possible to setup a server for VR only so everyone is on the same playing field ...till' then, if it's not to much trouble,Can i please have a snap 6 view   :) 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, HellCat_ said:

If it was there most of us who battle on multiplayer servers would use it just as non VR users use it unrealistically every day . 

 

How did you come to that conclusion?

I certainly wouldn't. I don't want it easy, it changes a key part of the simulation, that being the ability to have very good SA for an area of your plane that in reality was not achieved easily.

 

The result of this simplification changes the way combat is initiated, as well as during close quarters dogfights.

 

I'm all for it being an option, but one that can be locked by the server administrator. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

I certainly wouldn't. I don't want it easy, it changes a key part of the simulation, that being the ability to have very good SA for an area of your plane that in reality was not achieved easily.

Good for you ....if it was available you wouldn't have to use it so a key part of your simulation wouldn't be changed. 

5 hours ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

I'm all for it being an option, but one that can be locked by the server administrator. 

Why on earth would a server admin lock a view for a VR user that every other player in game has already? Because of all the advantages VR has in multiplayer already? 

double_facepalm1.png

Edited by HellCat_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HellCat_ said:

Why on earth would a server admin lock a view that every other player in game has already? Because of all the advantages VR has in multiplayer already

 

Because I also support similar restrictions for these views for every other player as well.

 

You want easy assists.. sure no problem, but let's make them lockable just like padlock views or icons because they also are lockable for the exact same reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...