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JudgeDredd

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Here's my parting shot to you and your company...

 

I'm not going to plead innocence here - though I don't think I'm guilty either - I've never seen anything official to say Kinguin is a grey market site - and what you've done is pretty outrageous.

 

If you knew Kinguin was miss-selling those products - and if it was illegal - then why did you not go through the courts? It was either because you get your money anyway or it was because it's NOT illegal. You knew they were operating. You knew they were selling your keys and you let it ride. And even after this debacle, they are STILL selling your keys...so you can get more money from other unsuspecting people who are looking for a game.

 

But - all said and done, I knew what I was doing when I bought through Kinguin. TBH, the worst I thought would happen was that I would not get any support from you. I really, really did not think you and Steam would collude to remove the products. Afterall - you got my money. Regardless of how much Kinguin paid for those keys, you got the money for it (well...as long as they weren't stolen I suppose).

 

Anyway - upshot is Kinguin refunded me. Steam has actually refunded the Spitfire VB I purchased on Sunday - so I got that £14 back. They are refusing to refund the other 2DLC, but I've wrote to them and basically accused them of colluding with you to steal my product. You stole it. I paid for it - you stole it. Regarding the DLC, Steam sold me that DLC and they are now trying to leave me with DLC that I cannot play because they removed my main games.

 

What's very sad about all this is you had a customer here that was willing to pump money into your game. I was literally on the verge of buying Battle of Kuban - I mean literally. You had already got £30 out of me for DLC. If we assume you got £20 of the £40 I paid for BoS and BOM at Kinguin, then you had £50. I was then about to buy Kuban at £50 AND I would've been all over more of your DLC.

 

You've lost me. I knew after the s**t show that was Cliffs of Dover I shouldn't have gone near you - you left gamers holding that rotten baby - and against my better judgement I did.

 

You've lost me as a customer...and that could be a considerable loss of cash. I've spent over £600 on DCS!! And why have you lost out? Not because I got the game cheap - not really because you run sales themselves - but because I didn't buy from them or Steam.

 

It really, really is your loss.

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Homemade Chicken and Broth

 

Makes 4 to 5 cups shredded chicken and 8 cups chicken broth

2 stalks celery, quartered

1 large carrot, quartered

1 onion, quartered

1 head of garlic, halved horizontally

5 to 7 fresh parsley sprigs

8 to 10 thyme sprigs

2 bay leaves

10 to 15 peppercorns

2 teaspoons kosher salt

3 ½ to 4 pounds bone-in, chicken pieces, a mixture of dark and light meat 10 cups cold water

Put all the ingredients except the water in a large stock pot, with the chicken on top. Cover with the water, ensuring that the chicken is submerged. Bring to a boil and immediately reduce to a bare simmer. Cook until the chicken is cooked through, 30 to 35 minutes, skimming off and discarding any foam that rises to the top of the surface. Remove the chicken from the stock and set aside to cool slightly while you strain the stock through a fine-mesh strainer and discard the solids

Shred the chicken into bite-size pieces, discarding the skin. (You can save the bones to make more stock another time or discard them.)

At this point, you can make soup right away or refrigerate the chicken in an airtight container for up to 3 days. You can refrigerate the stock in an airtight container for up to 1 week, or freeze it for up to 2 months

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Isn't the whole reason for taking keys away that the il-2 store gets charged back by banks?

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You seem to be basing your argument on the false assumption that theyve received money for the keys that were purchased from Kinguin/G2A....

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Hmmm, I'm a small game studio. Should I spend my money developing a flight sim, or paying lawyers to engage in a game of neverending multidimensional whack-a-mole against pirates? Its a toughie.

Seriously though, you never paid the company for anything, so they don't owe you anything. That's how business works. You paid some random dude the money, he gave you what he had and laughed all the way to the bank. 

In conclusion:

 

wellbye.gif

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Judge..What makes you think for 1 minute that the Devs got any money from Kinguin?

 

The Devs sweat blood and tears for years to make this series,and they get nothing back from these sites?

 

Tell me how would you feel if it was YOUR product that you'd worked years on and it was getting sold on "certain " sites and you got Zilch..zero from that site.

What if we all bought our keys cheaper from some of these similar sites? No money would get to the Devs..no money no development..no development no BOX series or any other games from 1C/777 simple really 

 

" It really really is your loss" 

I disagree it's your loss your missing out on one of the finest sims available that's only going to get better and better 

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57 minutes ago, JudgeDredd said:

 

 

It really, really is your loss.

 

Petty. The only loss here is yours. 

 

You never paid them for anything, and thought you were being smart buying those 'bargain' theived copies. 

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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1 hour ago, JudgeDredd said:

they are STILL selling your keys...so you can get more money from other unsuspecting people who are looking for a game.

 

But - all said and done, I knew what I was doing when I bought through Kinguin. TBH, the worst I thought would happen was that I would not get any support from you. I really, really did not think you and Steam would collude to remove the products. Afterall - you got my money. Regardless of how much Kinguin paid for those keys, you got the money for it (well...as long as they weren't stolen I suppose).

 


The issue is that they weren't getting money from Kinguin. Good that you got a refund though! You accuse them of stealing but that's not what they've done, nor have you. The party at fault is Kinguin and its great that you got your money back from them. If you do want to play the game you'll have to buy it officially (just wait for one of the many sales). It sucks, but I think you're blaming the wrong people.

 

1 hour ago, JudgeDredd said:

 

You've lost me. I knew after the s**t show that was Cliffs of Dover I shouldn't have gone near you - you left gamers holding that rotten baby - and against my better judgement I did.

 

 

 

 

Il2 Cliffs of Dover was a shitshow... that was made by a different company altogether. Whilst Jason & co have now bought the rights to it (from what I understand) the shitshow that was its launch is not on them in any way. In fact Jason & co bought the rights in order to give material to a mod team that is working hard on fixing that game - which is an awesome move. And yeah, early on IL2 BoX was a bit of a shitshow itself (nowhere near CloD) but the team has really turned it around with DX11, VR and timely releases (I do wish they start squashing some of the more serious bugs but hey, we'll see right?).

 

 

1 hour ago, JudgeDredd said:

You've lost me as a customer...and that could be a considerable loss of cash. I've spent over £600 on DCS!! And why have you lost out? Not because I got the game cheap - not really because you run sales themselves - but because I didn't buy from them or Steam.

 

It really, really is your loss.

 

 

Yeah, it sucks. And I don't think Jason & co are thinking "muahaha, we've finally driven away JudgeDredd" - they almost certainly hate this situation too. You bought through what you saw as a legitimate seller and it turns out they weren't legit. Blame the seller. 

Anyway I understand your anger, but you're misdirecting it. Making a lot of false accusations and so on. 


Hoping things work out well for ya.

Edited by peregrine7
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1 hour ago, SeaSerpent said:

Homemade Chicken and Broth

 

Makes 4 to 5 cups shredded chicken and 8 cups chicken broth

2 stalks celery, quartered

1 large carrot, quartered

1 onion, quartered

1 head of garlic, halved horizontally

5 to 7 fresh parsley sprigs

8 to 10 thyme sprigs

2 bay leaves

10 to 15 peppercorns

2 teaspoons kosher salt

3 ½ to 4 pounds bone-in, chicken pieces, a mixture of dark and light meat 10 cups cold water

Put all the ingredients except the water in a large stock pot, with the chicken on top. Cover with the water, ensuring that the chicken is submerged. Bring to a boil and immediately reduce to a bare simmer. Cook until the chicken is cooked through, 30 to 35 minutes, skimming off and discarding any foam that rises to the top of the surface. Remove the chicken from the stock and set aside to cool slightly while you strain the stock through a fine-mesh strainer and discard the solids

Shred the chicken into bite-size pieces, discarding the skin. (You can save the bones to make more stock another time or discard them.)

At this point, you can make soup right away or refrigerate the chicken in an airtight container for up to 3 days. You can refrigerate the stock in an airtight container for up to 1 week, or freeze it for up to 2 months

 

That looks pretty good, thanks. 

 

I fast a couple of times per week for fitness reasons, having only broth around mid day. This looks better than what I've been conjuring together. 

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1 hour ago, JudgeDredd said:

Here's my parting shot to you and your company...

 

I'm not going to plead innocence here - though I don't think I'm guilty either - I've never seen anything official to say Kinguin is a grey market site - and what you've done is pretty outrageous.

 

If you knew Kinguin was miss-selling those products - and if it was illegal - then why did you not go through the courts? It was either because you get your money anyway or it was because it's NOT illegal. You knew they were operating. You knew they were selling your keys and you let it ride. And even after this debacle, they are STILL selling your keys...so you can get more money from other unsuspecting people who are looking for a game.

 

But - all said and done, I knew what I was doing when I bought through Kinguin. TBH, the worst I thought would happen was that I would not get any support from you. I really, really did not think you and Steam would collude to remove the products. Afterall - you got my money. Regardless of how much Kinguin paid for those keys, you got the money for it (well...as long as they weren't stolen I suppose).

 

Anyway - upshot is Kinguin refunded me. Steam has actually refunded the Spitfire VB I purchased on Sunday - so I got that £14 back. They are refusing to refund the other 2DLC, but I've wrote to them and basically accused them of colluding with you to steal my product. You stole it. I paid for it - you stole it. Regarding the DLC, Steam sold me that DLC and they are now trying to leave me with DLC that I cannot play because they removed my main games.

 

What's very sad about all this is you had a customer here that was willing to pump money into your game. I was literally on the verge of buying Battle of Kuban - I mean literally. You had already got £30 out of me for DLC. If we assume you got £20 of the £40 I paid for BoS and BOM at Kinguin, then you had £50. I was then about to buy Kuban at £50 AND I would've been all over more of your DLC.

 

You've lost me. I knew after the s**t show that was Cliffs of Dover I shouldn't have gone near you - you left gamers holding that rotten baby - and against my better judgement I did.

 

You've lost me as a customer...and that could be a considerable loss of cash. I've spent over £600 on DCS!! And why have you lost out? Not because I got the game cheap - not really because you run sales themselves - but because I didn't buy from them or Steam.

 

It really, really is your loss.

https://www.polygon.com/2015/2/9/8006693/the-truth-behind-those-mysteriously-cheap-gray-market-game-codes

 

That article came out 3 years ago. The devs never saw a penny from your purchase.

Edited by JonRedcorn
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1 hour ago, JudgeDredd said:

Here's my parting shot to you and your company...

 

I'm not going to plead innocence here - though I don't think I'm guilty either - I've never seen anything official to say Kinguin is a grey market site - and what you've done is pretty outrageous.

 

If you knew Kinguin was miss-selling those products - and if it was illegal - then why did you not go through the courts? It was either because you get your money anyway or it was because it's NOT illegal. You knew they were operating. You knew they were selling your keys and you let it ride. And even after this debacle, they are STILL selling your keys...so you can get more money from other unsuspecting people who are looking for a game.

 

But - all said and done, I knew what I was doing when I bought through Kinguin. TBH, the worst I thought would happen was that I would not get any support from you. I really, really did not think you and Steam would collude to remove the products. Afterall - you got my money. Regardless of how much Kinguin paid for those keys, you got the money for it (well...as long as they weren't stolen I suppose).

 

Anyway - upshot is Kinguin refunded me. Steam has actually refunded the Spitfire VB I purchased on Sunday - so I got that £14 back. They are refusing to refund the other 2DLC, but I've wrote to them and basically accused them of colluding with you to steal my product. You stole it. I paid for it - you stole it. Regarding the DLC, Steam sold me that DLC and they are now trying to leave me with DLC that I cannot play because they removed my main games.

 

What's very sad about all this is you had a customer here that was willing to pump money into your game. I was literally on the verge of buying Battle of Kuban - I mean literally. You had already got £30 out of me for DLC. If we assume you got £20 of the £40 I paid for BoS and BOM at Kinguin, then you had £50. I was then about to buy Kuban at £50 AND I would've been all over more of your DLC.

 

You've lost me. I knew after the s**t show that was Cliffs of Dover I shouldn't have gone near you - you left gamers holding that rotten baby - and against my better judgement I did.

 

You've lost me as a customer...and that could be a considerable loss of cash. I've spent over £600 on DCS!! And why have you lost out? Not because I got the game cheap - not really because you run sales themselves - but because I didn't buy from them or Steam.

 

It really, really is your loss.

 

Yeah a dwindling community just got even smaller. There are a lot of people with you Judge. Not everyone really wants to spend 50 dollars on a sim just to find out they dont like it. This is why we buy the base game at the lowest price possible and then buy the DLC from steam or direct.

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22 minutes ago, =Oasis=ThatBlackFoxx said:

 

Yeah a dwindling community just got even smaller. There are a lot of people with you Judge. Not everyone really wants to spend 50 dollars on a sim just to find out they dont like it. This is why we buy the base game at the lowest price possible and then buy the DLC from steam or direct.

Funny steam has a nice return policy that if you play for under 2 hours its a free return no questions asked. So next time maybe give that a try instead of stealing from these hardworking devs. I don't have any sympathy for any of these people. Also the community isn't dwindling, not sure where you got that information. If anything it's doing better than it ever has. The Wings of Liberty 84 man server is full of players at nearly all times of the day.

 

I really truly feel for Jason and the team right now, this slander and nonsense being spread is certainly liable to leave an impression on those susceptible to such tactics.

Edited by JonRedcorn
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You bought pirate codes and then claim moral high ground to the copyright owner for exercising their legal (moral) and professional (income) rights? You intentionally undercut the DEV's to save a few bucks and are now upset that you got burned for it? Same rediculous claims are being made in social media tonight. Two out of three parties are in the wrong here. Hint, it's not who who you are railing against. Rediculous claims are rediculous. Moving right along........................

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2 minutes ago, JonRedcorn said:

Funny steam has a nice return policy that if you play for under 2 hours its a free return no questions asked. So next time maybe give that a try instead of stealing from these hardworking devs. I don't have any sympathy for any of these people.

I see where you are coming from but 2 hours is not even enough time to learn how to take off when you are a casual like me. No one knew it was stealing and no one knows for certain that they were stolen. I mean I have enough time in the game to know that I like it so I'm going to buy it from here because it is on sale but not everyone can afford the base price like I said before.

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2 minutes ago, =Oasis=ThatBlackFoxx said:

I see where you are coming from but 2 hours is not even enough time to learn how to take off when you are a casual like me. No one knew it was stealing and no one knows for certain that they were stolen. I mean I have enough time in the game to know that I like it so I'm going to buy it from here because it is on sale but not everyone can afford the base price like I said before.

These websites being sources of possibly stolen content is a known fact. When you need to buy "insurance" that kinguin hustles for 3 dollars a purchase it might be indicative of a possible sketchy situation. Not only that, but if I am selling say a car for 90% less than the current value would you not be suspicious of me, if you saw a new gen console on craigslist for 20 bucks would you be weary? But I digress.

 

https://www.polygon.com/2015/2/9/8006693/the-truth-behind-those-mysteriously-cheap-gray-market-game-codes

 

Again that was posted in 2015. Three years ago.

Edited by JonRedcorn
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2 minutes ago, =Oasis=ThatBlackFoxx said:

I see where you are coming from but 2 hours is not even enough time to learn how to take off when you are a casual like me. No one knew it was stealing and no one knows for certain that they were stolen. I mean I have enough time in the game to know that I like it so I'm going to buy it from here because it is on sale but not everyone can afford the base price like I said before.

 

So buying pirate copies is a legit way to test out a game?

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1 minute ago, JonRedcorn said:

These websites being sources of possibly stolen content is a known fact. When you need to buy "insurance" that kinguin hustles for 3 dollars a purchase it might be indicative of a possible sketchy situation. But I digress.

 

https://www.polygon.com/2015/2/9/8006693/the-truth-behind-those-mysteriously-cheap-gray-market-game-codes

 

Again that was posted in 2015. Three years ago.

They are a source of fraud rarely, that's the truth. But no one has came out and stated that they are 100% stolen. The only thing the devs have said is that they MAY have been.

2 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

 

So buying pirate copies is a legit way to test out a game?

Let me quote myself from the post that you have quoted. " no one knows for certain that they were stolen."

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3 minutes ago, =Oasis=ThatBlackFoxx said:

They are a source of fraud rarely, that's the truth. But no one has came out and stated that they are 100% stolen. The only thing the devs have said is that they MAY have been.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-01-26-it-looks-like-ubisoft-is-going-after-third-party-key-sellers

 

Even Amazon in getting in on the action, they've been selling stolen keys for a while now. They pretend to have 0 control over what gets sold on their website.

 

https://www.mcvuk.com/development/tinybuild-we-lost-450000-in-revenue-to-grey-market-key-sellers

 

Here's more, 450k in lost sales. I can do this all day.

Edited by JonRedcorn

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1 minute ago, JonRedcorn said:

Are you even reading my posts? I'm against fraud 100% and have stated that I am going to buy the game again, but no one has really come out and said that they know for certain it was stolen. You also have to understand that when a site has been offering a good deal for months, it looks pretty legit. You would think that someone at 1C's offices would have done something about the game selling for $30 somewhere else.

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2 minutes ago, =Oasis=ThatBlackFoxx said:

Let me quote myself from the post that you have quoted. " no one knows for certain that they were stolen."

 

Well as I understand it, 777 nor anyone else involved with the distribution of the game got any money from those keys, is there a nicer way to say it?

I been in this hobby a long time, and this community has for sure been smaller, but in this case I find it positive. Piracy is the true enemy of the genre and works like cancer 

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3 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

It has been stated numerous times. Buy the game ONLY on Steam or from the Official website.  Numerous times......

From the product activation "Enter the key (For keys purchased through Steam or other Digital Retailers)

You can kind of see where it is misleading, especially when they had no list of authorized sites.

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1 minute ago, =Oasis=ThatBlackFoxx said:

Are you even reading my posts? I'm against fraud 100% and have stated that I am going to buy the game again, but no one has really come out and said that they know for certain it was stolen. You also have to understand that when a site has been offering a good deal for months, it looks pretty legit. You would think that someone at 1C's offices would have done something about the game selling for $30 somewhere else.

You said they are a source of fraud rarely. I disagree, every single key on that website is a source of fraud. Not a single penny made on G2A, Kinguin, or CDkeys goes to the developers of any game on there. You think windows keys selling for 20 bucks are legit?

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always buy from approved vendors.

 

Judge Joe, (or is it Rico or Judda?) Dredd, as you stated you were aware you were buying from a grey site the only one you can blame is you.

 

 

you took a risk and it didn't work out.

 

if you leave there'll be others to replace you and tbh you might not have the attitude the devs or otger players want as part of the community.

 

best of luck in the future.

Edited by OrLoK

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1 minute ago, JonRedcorn said:

You said they are a source of fraud rarely. I disagree, every single key on that website is a source of fraud. Not a single penny made on G2A, Kinguin, or CDkeys goes to the developers of any game on there. You think windows keys selling for 20 bucks are legit?

There are many people on G2A who buy and sell keys legit. Some people make good money doing it. They buy the game on sale and sell it when it's not, so unless the keys ARE fraudulent, the devs do get paid. The devs have not said a word about a charge back hitting them, so again no one really knows where the keys came from.

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12 minutes ago, =Oasis=ThatBlackFoxx said:

They are a source of fraud rarely, that's the truth. But no one has came out and stated that they are 100% stolen. The only thing the devs have said is that they MAY have been.

Let me quote myself from the post that you have quoted. " no one knows for certain that they were stolen."

if your seller is legit youll get a refund or new key.

 

contact them

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2 minutes ago, =Oasis=ThatBlackFoxx said:

There are many people on G2A who buy and sell keys legit. Some people make good money doing it. They buy the game on sale and sell it when it's not, so unless the keys ARE fraudulent, the devs do get paid. The devs have not said a word about a charge back hitting them, so again no one really knows where the keys came from.

I have shown you plenty of information confirming my points. I am done here.

Edited by JonRedcorn

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3 minutes ago, JonRedcorn said:

You cannot buy a game on sale, and then sell the key. Let me know on what platform you can buy a game and then sell the key. I'd love to know. I need some extra cash.

How do you think people use stolen cards to buy the games?

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Further, and this thread will clearly get closed as soon as a Mod gets ahold of it, the OP obviously is not one for rules. It is a violation of forum policy to intentionally double post. And it should be obvious that the Mods aren’t going to let this one live either considering they closed the first one. You gambled, you lost. Doubling down is rarely the answer. If it was a goodbye post, so long. If he was expecting any amount of support from stalwarts who have either supported the game from early on or waited for THE APPROPRIATE SALES, well then.....

 

sympathy > 0

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf
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8 minutes ago, OrLoK said:

if your seller is legit youll get a refund or new key.

 

contact them

Finally someone not labeling me as a thief. Yeah man I'm getting the refund for it and using that to buy a new copy from this website. I really didn't even know that much about scams like that on G2A until after I bought the game.

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8 minutes ago, =Oasis=ThatBlackFoxx said:

Finally someone not labeling me as a thief. Yeah man I'm getting the refund for it and using that to buy a new copy from this website. I really didn't even know that much about scams like that on G2A until after I bought the game.

 

I certainly would,nt be calling you a thief pal,you bought what you thought was a genuine key from a site that sells the keys cheaper but..didn,t it alarm you that the site possibly had some kind of "insurance" to add in case of the key not activating etc?..I think you may have been guilty of some naivety but i genuinely believe you.

Thing is if something looks too good to be true...it usually is 

Edited by Adger

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Trying to justify making a terrible purchasing mistake and then blaming other people...

Too-bad-so-sad-bye-bye-o.gif

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4 minutes ago, Adger said:

 

I certainly would,nt be calling you a thief pal,you bought what you thought was a genuine key from a site that sells the keys cheaper but..didn,t it alarm you that the site possibly had some kind of "insurance" to add in case of the key not activating etc?..I think you may have been guilty of some naivety but i genuinely believe you.

Thing is if something looks too good to be true...it usually is 

Yeah, after this whole thing I won't be buying from them again. I've had my credit card information stolen 3 times so I really don't condone fraud. It's just kind of sad that some people don't want to help grow the community and slam people for just not knowing.

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