IL-2 Battle of Finland

[LLv44_Kanttori 375]

My Finnish Air Force aircaft setup, what is your opinion of that?

[Ehret 442]

Superb!

[Poochnboo 400]

2 hours ago, LLv44_Kanttori said:

though that they get two aircrafts "easily" when modelling at first the Ilyushin DB-3 and then with some mods it becomes the Ilyushin DB-3F = IL-4. It was used over all the Russian fronts during the Great Patriotic War!

I'm surprisedd that this airplane isn't in the game. It was widely used by the Soviets. I'd love to see it added. One reason, I'll admit, is that it would make a great faux Japanese bomber for Pacific (Kuban Map) missions. 

[xvii-Dietrich 367]

9 hours ago, LLv44_Kanttori said:

My Finnish Air Force aircaft setup, what is your opinion of that?

 

 

Very nice.

 

And obviously, this can be supplemented with the existing Bf 109 G-2 and G-6 or Ju 88 A-4 aircraft for a scenario set during the Continuation War.

 

Just out of interest, why the Blenheim Mk.IV and not the Mk.I?

 

Spoiler

 

 

The only major omission from your list seems to be the MS.406, but I really can't see what should be removed to accommodate it. Everything that is already included looks rather critical. Perhaps the MS.460 could be the "collector plane"?

 

 

 

PS: Personal note... I'd like to see the Do 22 Kl  🙂

Edited September 14, 2018 by xvii-Dietrich

[II./JG77_Kemp 510]

On 9/8/2018 at 3:04 AM, LLv44_Kanttori said:

I just updated that present time map where you can see the becoming Karelia map's area. The south coast of Gulf of Finland is still open (to be or not to be?) and we think about it.

 

I think the new map, with 30-40 km extension to south compared to the original one, looks great and adds lots of possibilities to include Luftwaffe into various scenarios, too. I understand it adds a lot of work to the project, though.

[Ropalcz 202]

We also need FW 189 for recon missions

 

[Poochnboo 400]

Boy, that sure isn't going to take home the prize for Best Looking Airplane of World War Two!

[LLv44_Kanttori 375]

On 9/14/2018 at 10:57 AM, xvii-Dietrich said:

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

The only major omission from your list seems to be the MS.406, but I really can't see what should be removed to accommodate it. Everything that is already included looks rather critical. Perhaps the MS.460 could be the "collector plane"?PS: Personal note... I'd like to see the Do 22 Kl  🙂

You cannot get everything. In Finnish fronts the M.S. 406 was not very good interceptor or fighter because of it's weak armament. It has also the worst aerial victories ratio of our fighters, even the Fokker D.XXI was better fighter...

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard 703]

On 9/16/2018 at 1:11 PM, LLv44_Kanttori said:

You cannot get everything. In Finnish fronts the M.S. 406 was not very good interceptor or fighter because of it's weak armament. It has also the worst aerial victories ratio of our fighters, even the Fokker D.XXI was better fighter...

 

The center mounted 20mm Hispano in the MS 406 is nice though, even if it only has 60 rounds, better than the DXXI and G.50 for example. If I had to put the MS 406 in there and replace another fighter it would be the G.50 I guess. There could be mods to make it a MS 410 with the better radiator and two extra 7.7mm. Apparently both the G.50 and MS 406 are similar in performance, speed, engine power and wing loading.

Edited September 17, 2018 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[=FEW=Hauggy 296]

I had to say that it would be a dream to see that Karelian map come to life.

I wish the team to succeed and I want to say that I love the Veliki Lukie map already, but damn having Leningrad and stuff would be insane 😄

If the map comes to life I can totally see the devs or their contractor make us a couple premium planes for this map (starting with my beloved I-153).

[LeLv76_Erkki 184]

On 9/14/2018 at 3:20 AM, Poochnboo said:

I'm surprisedd that this airplane isn't in the game. It was widely used by the Soviets. I'd love to see it added. One reason, I'll admit, is that it would make a great faux Japanese bomber for Pacific (Kuban Map) missions.  

 

Soviets really do need another level bomber. Unfortunately DB-3 and Il-4 are nowehre near as good as the Pe-2, which might be one of the reasons why they arent discussed much...

 

5 planes each, B-239, Hawk 75, G.50, Blenheim, MS.406 and I-15, I-153, I-16 early, Hurricane and DB-3 would be great AND it would support both France 1940 and early East Front!

[Jade_Monkey 2627]

Not a huge fan of the original proposal for planeset, sorry I dont know much to suggest an alternative.

 

I love the Karelia map project proposed by @LLv44_Kanttori

Edited September 20, 2018 by Jade_Monkey

[LLv44_Kanttori 375]

Remember that "Battle of Karelia"  is only a MAP making project, we are NOT produced a new "Battle of Something" part to this great game! 😄
After the Karelia map is ready (after one or two years) we can only hope that developers are modelling some of those fine aircrafts to this Finish-Russian front!

Edited September 20, 2018 by LLv44_Kanttori

[LLv32_vvaris 9]

I'm experimenting with satellite data. I have to recheck the licenses but it looks like we can use satellite data to create the majority of rivers and lakes. There is quite a lot of clean up needed to remove the modern bridges but it shouldn't be problem with so many bitmap editors in our team. By combining data from Finnish government I was able to add in the smaller rivers as well, but we have to see what we do with them since majority of them are less than 20 m wide.

This is Lappeenranta, you can see the city buildings as "small lakes" in the middle lower part of the image. Those need to be cleaned up as well, I will try to make that automatic by separating the "infrastructure wavelength" from the satellite data turning it black and overlaying it top of the lake data.

Using satellite data is amazing, you can extract field area also from it. Of course modern field area is larger than it was historically. There are multiple ways to reduce the field coverage automatically, it won't be historically accurate but somewhat realistic, we know roughly how much field area has increased since those times and we can probably utilize historical aerial images for the cities.

Edited September 24, 2018 by LLv32_vvaris

[LLv44_Kanttori 375]

Below is a historical map of the Siege of Leningrad. These Finnish and German stable front lines against Russian differed very much from the quickly moving WWII fronts around the world. The tail end of Gulf of Finland is a very small area where three parties of the war fought for their life or death. 

 

VERY IMPORTANT REQUEST:

I have collected many years very good reference material from the Finnish airfields and also from the Leningrad North airfields as Kasimovo, Levashovo, Gorskaya and Komendatskoje. But... I need VERY MUCH reference material from the German and Russian airfields around Leningrad and North coast of Estonia!

If you have any airfield photos, hand written field plans, old reconnaissance photos etc. from all those German and Leningrad East and South airfields please contact me by private message or by e-mail!    

Edited October 8, 2018 by LLv44_Kanttori

[II./JG77_Kemp 510]

Now this is starting to look really great!

[LLv44_Kanttori 375]

 We have as a reference material many old Finnish reconnaisance photos from Karelian front like this one from Vyborg.

Edited April 21 by LLv44_Kanttori

[Juri_JS 1139]

On 9/24/2018 at 6:34 AM, LLv32_vvaris said:

I'm experimenting with satellite data.

That sounds like a clever idea. Which program are you using to work with the satellite images?

 

In my job I sometimes use vector data from OpenStreeMap when I have to create maps in ArcGIS. I have no idea how useful it is when creating maps for games. For lakes and rivers it's probably not detailed enough, but maybe it can be used when creating the roads and railway lines or the distribution of wooded areas. The data is available in shapefile format which can be converted into raster format in a GIS.

 

The data can be downloaded for free here:
https://download.geofabrik.de/

 

Here's the data for Finland:
https://download.geofabrik.de/europe/finland.html

 

For the Russian Northwestern Federal District:
https://download.geofabrik.de/russia/northwestern-fed-district.html

 

And for Estonia:
https://download.geofabrik.de/europe/estonia.html

 

 

[LLv32_vvaris 9]

3 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

That sounds like a clever idea. Which program are you using to work with the satellite images?

 

In my job I sometimes use vector data from OpenStreeMap when I have to create maps in ArcGIS. I have no idea how useful it is when creating maps for games. For lakes and rivers it's probably not detailed enough, but maybe it can be used when creating the roads and railway lines or the distribution of wooded areas. The data is available in shapefile format which can be converted into raster format in a GIS.

I'm using QGIS. Open streetmap data is too jagged, so I use data from Sentinel 2 and filter the wavelengths so that I can separate water from land areas. Of course there are artifacts like bridges over water areas and roofs of buildings are filtered as water. Those artifacts need to be fixed manually by hand from about 1400 different 1024x1024 images. Huge huge task but with enthusiastic hobbyists rather doable.

I just experimenting currently, I have to see if ESAs license allows me to use the data in such project or if I have to find other source.

Edited September 29, 2018 by LLv32_vvaris

[LLv44_Kanttori 375]

Our team has cropped the map once more and is becoming more interesting:

The map has a size of 350 x 350 kilometers and it covers most of the Finnish Fighter Squadrons. Luftwaffe and VVS operating areas around Leningrad from summer 1941 to autumn 1944. Undoubtedly the most important city of the area are Viipuri and Kotka and of course Leningrad. The blue dots are Finnish air bases, Soviet bases are red and German bases are green. Bigger roundels are historical bomber airfields or their working bases.

NOTICE: The Kotka-Lavansaari area is higlighted and it is the first testing 'dogfight' map what we are going to build.

It is 80km x 80km and mostly sea so it is our small exercise work to learn the map making to this great game! .

 

We are going to open later in this Autumn a new thread for this map project as soon as we have something new and interesting to show you!

Edited October 8, 2018 by LLv44_Kanttori

[xvii-Dietrich 367]

I suspect the team is already aware of this reference. Yet I couldn't find a mention of it anywhere on these forums. So I figured I'd post the link in case others are interested in it.

 

         http://www.karjalankartat.fi/  -- historic online mapping service covering the Lost Karelia.

[LLv44_Kanttori 375]

10 hours ago, xvii-Dietrich said:

I suspect the team is already aware of this reference. Yet I couldn't find a mention of it anywhere on these forums. So I figured I'd post the link in case others are interested in it.

 

         http://www.karjalankartat.fi/  -- historic online mapping service covering the Lost Karelia.

Thank you Dietrich,  but your suspection was right, I have had those maps in my hard drive almost 15 years. My grandfather was a refugee from the Viena Karelia (Repola village) and that is the one reason why this map project is so important to me. I have all my father's papers, photos, blueprints and maps from my grandfather's home in small village near the main Repola village.  

 

I live myself in the North Karelia (Joensuu town) and my grandmother's place was in Ilomantsi very near the current Finnish-Russian border. I visit there many times every summer. Repola is now Russian territory and it  is from Joensuu only 150 kilometers "as the crow flies". 

Be still free to offer us every reference material you find, you never know what you have!

Edited October 6, 2018 by LLv44_Kanttori

[MARK_II 0]

@LLv44_Kanttori  - Thank you for making this map! Are looking forward to!

[LUZITANO 169]

On 9/13/2018 at 6:34 PM, LLv44_Kanttori said:

My Finnish Air Force aircaft setup, what is your opinion of that?

It's a good set
 

I can edit my suggestion, but I think Blenheim is out of the question, as the Mk IV version belongs to the Battle of England

Now... about the P-36... 
I'm drawing this suggestion:

Spoiler

 

IL-2 BATTLE OF LIGNE MAGINOT
 

H-75A-3 (Premium)
D.520
Hurricane Mk.I Early
Potez 631
Boch MB 131

Fiat BR.20 (Premium)
Bf 109E-3
Bf 110 C-2
Ju-87B-1
He-111H-2

 

I'm putting together a puzzle, accommodating Allied and Axis aircraft to complete the collection of historical battles that the IL-2 can or will develop

On the map ... could close the gap and divide space with other maps near France as is the case of the Battle of the Bodenplatte and eventual Normandy and Battle of Great Britain

H-75A-3 also can be used at Finland as a Axis plane with German gauges and weapons

I suggested some battles in the desert, another in Finland and ... with France and England it is possible to complete the set of Western vehicles that fought in 1940

 

So... The P-36 could also be an aircraft of the Battle of Finland and at the same time be a collector's plane that can be used in the Battle of France
We need to think about how to put this puzzle together. P-36 may be the collector of Finland Battle, instead of the G.50. On the other hand, Blenheim is difficult to fit into Finland, since he was so active in the Battle of Britain 

 

P.S. Hurricane Mk IIB and C have different wings and other features, the MkC was a later variant and not only a modification

IL-2 BATTLE OF FINLAND

Axis

Hawk 75A-3 (Collector)

G.50 
MS 406
Brewster B239
Fokker D.XXI

 

Allies
Hurricane Mk IIb (Collector)
Hurricane Mk IIc
I-16 Type 10
I-153
BD-3

Any other suggestions?

[Juri_JS 1139]

Any news on the Karelia map project?

[NETSCAPE 672]

7 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

Any news on the Karelia map project?

 

Yeah I was wondering about this as well. I am really fascinated by the Finnish front, albeit mostly the combat on the ground...

[Royal_Flight 396]

On 11/8/2018 at 6:55 AM, LUZITANO said:

Any other suggestions?

 

Here’s an idea for a dual-use Battle of Finland/France set:

 

Hawk 75

MS.406

Fokker D.XXI

Hurricane mk I

Blenheim mk I

 

All aircraft can be used by the Axis in Finland, and various Allied nations (France, UK, Netherlands/Denmark) over Western Europe in 1940, maybe over the Bodenplatte map. 

 

Add the above to an early-war VVS/Luftwaffe set, maybe:

 

VVS:

I-153

I-16

Su-2

SB-2

Li-2

 

Luftwaffe:

Bf-109E-3

Bf-110C

Hs-123

Do-17

Ju-87B

 

and we get three-in-one:

Barbarossa, Battle of France/Low Countries, Winter War.

 

Incidentally, adding the Brewster Buffalo (maybe via a further collector plane) and minus the MS.406 gives a set that can also be used by Commonwealth and Dutch forces against Japan in the early part of the war in the Far East. 

Edited January 5 by Royal_Flight
Typo

[-332FG-Garven 282]

19 hours ago, Royal_Flight said:

Incidentally, adding the Brewster Buffalo (maybe via a further collector plane) and minus the MS.406 gives a set that can also be used by Commonwealth and Dutch forces against Japan in the early part of the war in the Far East. 

F2A Buffalo's were also present at Midway.

[LLv44_Kanttori 375]

W.I.P. with the map.

[Juri_JS 1139]

12 minutes ago, LLv44_Kanttori said:

W.I.P. with the map.

Well, then I guess it's time to start my research for a Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey campaign.

[JG4_dingsda 157]

On 2/1/2019 at 5:18 AM, LLv44_Kanttori said:

W.I.P. with the map.

I am such a sucker for this ToW.

[KG_S_Kalle_Kalutz82 104]

On 9/7/2018 at 9:47 PM, KG_S_Kalle_Kalutz82 said:

Hurricane as a Premium Plane....

....available for Finnland and Sovietunion

Would be interesting to fly one plane for both sides

 

 

 

I just love to quote myself

lol

 

Selfish as I am - I want to fly a finnish Hurricane

[Juri_JS 1139]

By the way, if anyone has access to the combat reports of Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey, please contact me. I already have enough information to create campaigns for the unit, but I prefer to make the missions as historically accurate as possible.

[JG4_dingsda 157]

6 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

By the way, if anyone has access to the combat reports of Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey, please contact me. I already have enough information to create campaigns for the unit, but I prefer to make the missions as historically accurate as possible.

@Juri_JS, @RaFiGer has done skins for the "Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey" on his little sturmovik page.

 

As his source (including "Einsatzberichte") he mentions:

Lento-osasto Kuhlmey : Saksan Luftwaffe Suomen tukena kesällä 1944

Hannu Valtonen * Keski-Suomen Ilmailumuseon julkaisuja, Finnland

  * ISBN 951-95688-1-6

Edited February 15 by JG4_dingsda

[15[Span.]/JG51Spartan 423]

On 2/1/2019 at 4:18 AM, LLv44_Kanttori said:

W.I.P. with the map.

In awe!!! The whole map or a part of the map? Reeeeaaaally excited about this

Edited February 15 by 15[Span.]/JG51Spartan

[Juri_JS 1139]

 

1 hour ago, JG4_dingsda said:

@Juri_JS, @RaFiGer has done skins for the "Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey" on his little sturmovik page.

 

As his source (including "Einsatzberichte") he mentions:

Lento-osasto Kuhlmey : Saksan Luftwaffe Suomen tukena kesällä 1944

Hannu Valtonen * Keski-Suomen Ilmailumuseon julkaisuja, Finnland

  * ISBN 951-95688-1-6

I know this book, but unfortunately my Finnish isn't that great. There isn't a PDF version of the book, so simply translating it with Google translator isn't an option. But one of our Finnish community members told me today, that he will take a look at the book and see if it contains some useful information.

 

The Finnish National Archives have the original combat reports of the units from Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey, but according to my research, they aren't available in their digital section yet.

[Missionbug 150]

On 2/1/2019 at 4:18 AM, LLv44_Kanttori said:

W.I.P. with the map.

 

 

Please tell us more, where, when, how.

 

Have the development team taken you under their wing, will we get this as a paid add on, a official release?

 

This is torture.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[15[Span.]/JG51Spartan 423]

We need pictures!!!! 

[JG4_dingsda 157]

6 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

But one of our Finnish community members told me today, that he will take a look at the book and see if it contains some useful information.

Very nice!

[15[Span.]/JG51Spartan 423]

We need a mini Finnish DD every week to keep our spirits high  nothing fancy but some news ...

Edited February 17 by 15[Span.]/JG51Spartan