Jump to content
Bies

Using cockpit gauges vs. technochat - Adding an option to turn off the “technochat” in realism menu by server administrator

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Asgar said:

show us the state of bombfuzes in the cockpit and you can do with technochat whatever you want in my opinion 😄

 

In the P-39/P-40 you have levers on the floor for this...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh good, two planes covered and who flies 109s and 190 anyways right?

Edited by 6./ZG26_Asgar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Ehret said:

You know... in some planes you have to set everything precisely or stuff will not perform and blow up unexpectedly. 

All to a nice extra advantage to more automated crates.

 

Yes, that's the point.  Don't ride right on the limit of your engine and you won't blow it up so quickly. If there was more pilot workload in real life to extract the performance benefits out of an engine, so should there be in game. Why should everyone be able to sit right on the 1% of engine limits with instant warnings when they had pushed their plane too far without having to take a single glance at the dials in the cockpit.

 

Sure I'm in favour of less restrictive "engine destruction timers", but not at the expense of having to wait for this pilot assist being available as a enforceable server admin setting.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 3:31 PM, JG5_Schuck said:

Ha ha ha,

I love the way some people want to drag down what was a perfectly reasonable topic to their mud slinging depths!!

 

In no way would this impact the individual, it would be a server setting (read the title of the thread), if you don't like the setting, don't join the server!!

 

As for HUD or technochat not offering any advantage, then someone needs to explain to me why every modern fighter aircraft is equipped with one?

 

Pict, its a very valid topic of conversation, but unfortunately some people are not open to the views of others, even when its offered with supporting evidence.

 

As for loosing inclusiveness, some servers now only allow joystick control, is that not the same?

 

I believe it should be available as a choice to whoever goes to all the trouble to make and host a server.

The technochat hud is definitely an advantage because it pops up when the engine is past its limits, as opposed to the pilot knowing to check his gauges. Trust me it's a HUGE differential. Don't know how many times I've finished an attack, pulling away and I see my engine is overheated.... uh... yes, it definitely increases the responsibilities of the pilot to expert. And on a server it would be like that for everybody so it's not like anybody is being forced into an unequal position. Other than the capabilities of the plane itself. It adds a big dimension, the planes 'feel' different. [ultimately I will always fly with it off anyway]

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 11:20 AM, unreasonable said:

 

I do not need or want your "help" any more than I need or want your patronizing comments. Having played flight sims for twenty or so years I am happy to form and voice my own opinions without policing. I have not only seen loads of videos, I have even made a couple myself! 

 

Personally I think you are enormously over-rating the advantages of the HUD - except for Icons/labels, which are already a server setting. The idea that MP can be a completely level playing field is, anyway, an illusion. 

 

What Trups is saying is that eliminating technochat from some servers will make them unplayable for some people. So you lose inclusiveness in order to get an imaginary equality.

It is a fair point that requires a fair answer.  

 

Disagree that the HUD is not a major advantage. But, that's exactly the point, putting in the HUD more equals out aircraft, it ruins their character. The I16 is a monster to read the gauges, That's why there are the holes in the dashboard lip (or whatever that's called).Or looking around the IL2 gunsight to see the compass. Or knowing what ata is safe, for how long and not explicitly knowing the engine is overheated. Knowing where the Ju88 bomb lights are, or the Pe2 bomb counters. All adds to the adventure, the excitement. If we are looking for equality, we would all fly the same plane with same loadout at same altitude. For me that's totally what not the game is about.

Edited by Tailwheelbrownbear
  • Upvote 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not like to have servers ability to force techchat off, since I like to bring friends which aren´t that experienced at flying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Leon_Portier said:

I would not like to have servers ability to force techchat off, since I like to bring friends which aren´t that experienced at flying.

 

Why would you take someone who has little experience to a full switch server?

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Pict said:

 

Why would you take someone who has little experience to a full switch server?

Because they like the ground wars!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont use technochat, and maybe this is why I fried the 109s engines sometimes.

 

If you use technochat you have a warning high oil temperature in the Me 109 specially this is useful.

If you just use the gauges the oil temp gauge is not modeled, so you never know how is the oil temp doing.

 

So right there is one disadvantage, I still dont use it, but wish developers fix the oil temp gauge on the 109s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Leon_Portier said:

Because they like the ground wars!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you talking about tank driving? I assume you are, as currently without a HUD there is no clear way of knowing what ammo you have selected in a tank?

 

If that's the case, lets not forget that what we have so far with the "ground wars" is a free pilot idea that led to an pre-order Beta, which is currently still in the early stages of development...

 

Hardly a reason to flip the idea to have the option to turn technochat off at the server level on it's head, is it?

 

7 hours ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

If you use technochat you have a warning high oil temperature in the Me 109 specially this is useful.

If you just use the gauges the oil temp gauge is not modeled, so you never know how is the oil temp doing.

 

Just because an aircraft, or in Leon_Portier's case a tank, lacks a functioning oil temperature gauge or similar needed in cockpit information that is historically correct, should not mean that we should give up on wanting the option for a technochat free arena. 

 

If you are missing a historically correct feature in your cockpit, you should ask the developer to sort it out, backed up by all the historically data required to make your case stand up, in an effort to make IL2 BOX better for all of us. Not come here trying to squash the efforts of others who are trying to make IL2 BOX better for all of us.

 

Edited by Pict
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Pict said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you talking about tank driving? I assume you are, as currently without a HUD there is no clear way of knowing what ammo you have selected in a tank?

 

If that's the case, lets not forget that what we have so far with the "ground wars" is a free pilot idea that led to an pre-order Beta, which is currently still in the early stages of development...

 

Hardly a reason to flip the idea to have the option to turn technochat off at the server level on it's head, is it?

 

Sorry for being unclear, I meant the CAS and Bombing. So air to ground in a realistic setting.

I do agree on the tanks shells, it could be labeled better.

Edited by Leon_Portier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gotta say it's hilarious reading through this thread. People just can't seem to grasp that this would be a server side setting. I'd love to see the hours of flight time these detractors have on TAW or any other high realism server. I bet it's 0. I bet most of them don't even play online and can't understand this would effect them in absolutely no way at all!

 

There's two pilots, one never has to look down or away from the plane he's fighting, the other has to take his eyes off the enemy to check his gauges, apparently this simple concept and how it creates a disadvantage for one player is beyond the grasp of a few people here. It's really not rocket science. If I can track my enemy without interruption how does that not give me an advantage vs somebody who cannot? None of the high kill youtubers EVER look at their gauges. You would have to be willfully ignorant to ignore that point.

 

If you do not like having technochat off then don't join the servers that you already don't play on since I can't imagine manual navigation would be up your ally either if literally looking into the beautifully rendered cockpit is too big a challenge for you. There's always war thunder.

  • Haha 2
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/6/2018 at 11:19 PM, Pict said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you talking about tank driving? I assume you are, as currently without a HUD there is no clear way of knowing what ammo you have selected in a tank?

 

If that's the case, lets not forget that what we have so far with the "ground wars" is a free pilot idea that led to an pre-order Beta, which is currently still in the early stages of development...

 

Hardly a reason to flip the idea to have the option to turn technochat off at the server level on it's head, is it?

 

 

Just because an aircraft, or in Leon_Portier's case a tank, lacks a functioning oil temperature gauge or similar needed in cockpit information that is historically correct, should not mean that we should give up on wanting the option for a technochat free arena. 

 

If you are missing a historically correct feature in your cockpit, you should ask the developer to sort it out, backed up by all the historically data required to make your case stand up, in an effort to make IL2 BOX better for all of us. Not come here trying to squash the efforts of others who are trying to make IL2 BOX better for all of us.

 

I am in favor of removing technochat big time, dont understand your reply, why is lots of people in this forums always so angry trying to start fights.

Relax 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

I am in favor of removing technochat big time, dont understand your reply, why is lots of people in this forums always so angry trying to start fights.

Relax 

 

You obviously do not understand my reply, if you think I want to start a fight with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since a few months, since the appearance of this thread in fact, I fly without technochat.

 

I am almost no more surprised by overheating or other engine driving errors.

I know better the planes that I fly habitually, and I am more attentive to my plane and its reactions. It has brought a lot to my pleasure of flying.

 

But actually I'm less efficient than the others who use the technochat, since I always keep a small reserve of security.

So I am for the option of disabling technochat on servers, to fly "equal" with other players.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once used to it, you can fly without technochat easily. Its the same with your car. You don't look at the tachometer to check if you have to shift up or down. You can hear it when your engine goes on full chat. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Oelmann said:

Once used to it, you can fly without technochat easily. Its the same with your car. You don't look at the tachometer to check if you have to shift up or down. You can hear it when your engine goes on full chat. 

 

Yes,  I can tell when I'm on the edge of combat/emergency in my most common planes just on engine sound alone. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok Guys,

This is our chance to let the Devs know how we feel about the technochat/tips

through the FEEDBACK option. (thanks Jason)

This is a great opportunity, so get all your squad mates to do the same!

The more people who respond, the better the chance of something happening, fingers crossed.........

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Technochat of course gives advantage vs players not using it (thats why modern fighters have huds).

 

I also believe  technochat is overdone a little too, and I do want to fly as realistic as possible, like the proponents of its removal on severs as an option.

I don't feel however the game is at a point as a simulator where all the required information is available  without it. A real pilot has other senses than sight and sound to help him determine what/how his plane is doing.  So right now with what we have, I don't support not having this available, and even the sight as sound we have is far interior on a computer to real life.

 

I don't think many ppl actually realise how much our other senses, give us information , that you just can't get from a visual queue on a screen, so we have technochat to help fill in the gaps. I would prefer not to have it too.

 

Maybe when they can model g forces for example (and a whole lot of others things a pilot experiences to help him fly) and you can afford the gear to make use of it, we might be at that point to removing ALL technochat...

 

I also fly as much as possible with the guages available, that's why I fly with a joystick and not a mouse  etc etc.

 

What I do support is having Technochat dumbed down somewhat, (for example we don't need a compass) and customised to a plane would also be good...
And that's all dev time too, but worth the investment IMHO.

Edited by =RS=Stix_09

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

Technochat of course gives advantage vs players not using it (thats why modern fighters have huds).

 

I also believe  technochat is overdone a little too, and I do want to fly as realistic as possible, like the proponents of its removal on severs as an option.

I don't feel however the game is at a point as a simulator where all the required information is available  without it. A real pilot has other senses than sight and sound to help him determine what/how his plane is doing.  So right now with what we have, I don't support not having this available, and even the sight as sound we have is far interior on a computer to real life.

 

I don't think many ppl actually realise how much our other senses, give us information , that you just can't get from a visual queue on a screen, so we have technochat to help fill in the gaps. I would prefer not to have it too.

 

Maybe when they can model g forces for example (and a whole lot of others things a pilot experiences to help him fly) and you can afford the gear to make use of it, we might be at that point to removing ALL technochat...

 

I also fly as much as possible with the guages available, that's why I fly with a joystick and not a mouse  etc etc.

 

What I do support is having Technochat dumbed down somewhat, (for example we don't need a compass) and customised to a plane would also be good...
And that's all dev time too, but worth the investment IMHO.

 

I don't see this as a real problem imo, I fly DCS and Il2 singleplayer with no problems, I can see everything my aircraft is doing just by looking down at the cockpit.

I don't need technochat at all, what I need it a server option to turn it off completely.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 

I don't see this as a real problem imo, I fly DCS and Il2 singleplayer with no problems, I can see everything my aircraft is doing just by looking down at the cockpit.

I don't need technochat at all, what I need it a server option to turn it off completely.

 

So on an I-16 u can tell the 90% throttle position from the 80% position, by looking at it? I  can't.

If I had my hand on it I could with experience (or a notch or some self made mark) or engine feel  I could.

 

Or the flap position?

Edited by =RS=Stix_09

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, =RS=Stix_09 said:

 

So on an I-16 u can tell the 90% throttle position from the 80% position, by looking at it? I  can't.

Sure, just look at the gauges to see your manifold pressure and rpm. No need to know % when you know actual power settings of your aircraft.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Sure, just look at the gauges to see your manifold pressure and rpm. No need to know % when you know actual power settings of your aircraft.

 

And flaps? I'm saying a visual queue in game is a guess (depending on how well its modeled). In a real plane I would know by feel and experience in that plane.

Pilots don't just fly by looking at gauges in combat.

Edited by =RS=Stix_09

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, =RS=Stix_09 said:

 

And flaps?

Not sure on the I-16 but usually there is a flap indicator on the wing. Point is, everything you need to fly the aircraft is right there in front of you.

 

The artificial engine modeling is the only downside to not using technochat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Not sure on the I-16 but usually there is a flap indicator on the wing. Point is, everything you need to fly the aircraft is right there in front of you.

 

The artificial engine modeling is the only downside to not using technochat.

i guess my point is , the game can't and does not model all to the degree a real pilot would use in combat. and the techno chat (over done currently) helps to deal with what you can't physically feel and see and hear. if you have flown a real plane you will understand what I mean , and in combat feel is a big part of flying.

technochat is not the problem, its the way its implemented that is
I that's my thought

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, =RS=Stix_09 said:

i guess my point is , the game can't and does not model all to the degree a real pilot would use in combat. and the techno chat (over done currently) helps to deal with what you can't physically feel and see and hear. if you have flown a real plane you will understand what I mean , and in combat feel is a big part of flying.

 

Technocat is not needed. I've flown without it just fine. Have you ever flown anything besides il2? DCS is a good representation of all you need, no need for technochat when everything is right in front of you.

 

I don't need to "feel" the aircraft when I know what it's doing, I know it's power settings, flap settings, etc. all by looking at my cockpit/visual clues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 

Technocat is not needed. I've flown without it just fine. Have you ever flown anything besides il2? DCS is a good representation of all you need, no need for technochat when everything is right in front of you.

 

I don't need to "feel" the aircraft when I know what it's doing, I know it's power settings, flap settings, etc. all by looking at my cockpit/visual clues.

 

Not if want  to fly a plane to its limits as combat pilots do, they absolutely use feel and touch for example to fly,  and  I agree you don't need it to fly. It could be better done than it is. I don't like ity either in its current form.

 

You are never going to model all this, so we should have some other method to do it (a more sophisticated technochat)

until the sim get more simulated.. we need other forms to get this info.... how... no idea...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

 

Not if want  to fly a plane to its limits as combat pilots do, they absolutely use feel and touch for example to fly,  and  I agree you don't need it to fly. It could be better done than it is. I don't like ity either in its current form.

 

You are never going to model all this, so we should have some other method to do it (a more sophisticated technochat)

until the sim get more simulated.. we need other forms to get this info.... how... no idea...

 

So I don't really understand. How is flying this game without tech chat any different from flying DCS? Because I can do both just fine and DCS doesnt have tech chat.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 

So I don't really understand. How is flying this game without tech chat any different from flying DCS? Because I can do both just fine and DCS doesnt have tech chat.

 

I never said u could not fly a plane without it. I', saying it aids optimal quick combat flying like a hud in modern jet does, far better then gauges do, thats why people like it, and the current implementation is an attempt to more model info (just done in very basic way)

 

I don't think thats a bad thing, as we can't ,model a lot in a sim , i see not problem with aids to try and deal with what can''t be model,

I also said I don't like the current implementation of it, but I also think its a start (very basic one at that) to try and make the sim model things in currently dose not(and some it already does , which should not be part of the technochat)

 

and dcs models stuff far better sim wise then GB , but its still a long way from flying a real plane, and its also not as fun to fly IMHO in part because of that on currtent hardware.

 

this also about yours and mine and other peoples personal perspective... everyone will never agree on any of this argument...

GB is a sim , and its a simplified one at that , its also a game, and for fun...and no one will ever agree on this... because we all want different things from our sim.

I'm just giving another perspective, not disagreeing with yours, which is just as valid and everyone else's.

 

I think the problem maybe is you may think your perspective is the only correct one???

my argument is for a better version that doesn't detract from the experience, not elimination of it altogether.

an example of what I mean is the blackout effect you currently get under high g turns

Edited by =RS=Stix_09

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

 

Not if want  to fly a plane to its limits as combat pilots do, they absolutely use feel and touch for example to fly,  and  I agree you don't need it to fly. It could be better done than it is. I don't like ity either in its current form.

 

You are never going to model all this, so we should have some other method to do it (a more sophisticated technochat)

until the sim get more simulated.. we need other forms to get this info.... how... no idea...

 

 

Tecnochat could be modified a bit to keep everyone fair.

 

Get rid of power %

RPM %

Mixture%

Get rid of flaps/raise flaps

Gear /raise gear

Pilot should know all this with the way Il2 is modeled currently, and if a pilot forget to raise flpas or gear they pay for their lack of awareness.

Get rid of overheating(once the temp gauges work for 109s)

 

Engine damage, sometimes no smoke, no change in sound and no indication, so in this case the Technochat is an advantage.

This might be when damage is not critical.

I dont use it personally, its giving away some advantage in MP, but its a lot more immersive.

 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

 

 

Tecnochat could be modified a bit to keep everyone fair.

 

Get rid of power %

RPM %

Mixture%

Get rid of flaps/raise flaps

Gear /raise gear

Pilot should know all this with the way Il2 is modeled currently, and if a pilot forget to raise flpas or gear they pay for their lack of awareness.

Get rid of overheating(once the temp gauges work for 109s)

 

Engine damage, sometimes no smoke, no change in sound and no indication, so in this case the Technochat is an advantage.

This might be when damage is not critical.

I dont use it personally, its giving away some advantage in MP, but its a lot more immersive.

 

 

yes, this is my perspective, it current form gives info already present from gauges (remove compass too...)

I think the warning messages are ok, because we sense things that the gauges may not show until the engine is dead....
if we where in the plane we would likely sense the slight changes in for example the engine sound, that we may not detect in a sim on a pc...

For example after taking fire from another plane.

 

I don't like text messages(minimal as possible,or  the info could be in  another form maybe)

 

The feel , perception of being there, thats not easy to simulate well, subtle sounds, control feedback from the plane etc,
Seeing the control column shake , is not the same as feeling it shake for example, that you will notice very quick...

Edited by =RS=Stix_09

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about this option? I tried to fly without tips but when i hide them i don't see server messages, other players messages, spotted aircrafts reports and so on. So realistically hiding tips is useful maybe for doing screenshots only. Such a shame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, MicEzo said:

What about this option? I tried to fly without tips but when i hide them i don't see server messages, other players messages, spotted aircrafts reports and so on. So realistically hiding tips is useful maybe for doing screenshots only. Such a shame.

 

Under Settings/Flight Interface You can have HUD on, Minimap -hidden, In game messages - off (this hides Technochat), Show multiplay messages - On, Show kill messages - On,  Instrument panel - off.

 

This will give you the chat for MP without anything else on the screen.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

So on an I-16 u can tell the 90% throttle position from the 80% position, by looking at it? I  can't.

If I had my hand on it I could with experience (or a notch or some self made mark) or engine feel  I could.

 

Or the flap position?

Excuse me sir, did you ever fly other sims? Like let's say DCS?

Or how you can imagine real pilot set the RPM? Reading an sms message with 80% percent or looking at the RPM or manifold gauge?

Or how he set his flaps? Reading an sms message with 40% percents or by looking at flaps indicaton in the cockpit or over the wing?

Even RoF didn't have engine overheat messages, damage control, non optimal mix, running out of fuel messages etc.

 

No offense but people which seems to even forget there are working gauges and indicators modeled in the game and set their parameters by % are the most visible sign all this chat dumbed the game to the point it is dragging it from a sim category to a game-sim or you name it. 

Edited by kramer
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you missed the point, I'm done with the discussion, nothing I can say will alter your thoughts..
I'll just say we disagree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many simulators have perished trying to please casual players at the expense of simulation fans. IL-2 will never win the number of War Thunder players anyway. 

With bot opitons available we would have both servers for casual players with tips, artificial compas, damage control and GPS and realistic for fans of sim approach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 a real pilot could also feel the controls in his hand, and feel its movement, my example u mentioned is a bad one, Yes I agree on that.

simulators only can simulate visual and audio queue, what about the other stuff that us part of flying a plane (we use other senses...that has to be done in another waym we are not in a real plane., and even the visual and audio is not real enough like a real plane... so we nee alternative ways to add that...

 

 

AGAIN I do not think its done well in the current form , (techno chat) but it has to be done somehow...

 

If u don't get that concept, then I can't explain it  any other way

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People here agreed 2d bars from RoF (which compensated feeling the controls in the hand) are ok.

But what is a profit of having overheat message when you have temp gauge in the cockpit? Or damage control? Or optimal mixture control? Or flaps % if you have indicator in the cockpit? And many more. The only profit of that is you don't have to use the cockpit at all, even in most realistic servers. Just fly with you sight locked at the enemy 100% of the time.

PS. Why aybody would take i.e. thermometer as additional gauge in WWI FC planes if he has tipses which are more capable and do not weight 1kg?😃

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...