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dburne

VKB MCG Pro Grip

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16 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

I actually removed my cams when I was installing the #50 springs, because I didn't know about the zip tie trick and was having a terrible time trying to install them with needle-nose pliers. It wasn't anything too difficult.

 

Yeah that was my guess from looking at them, good to know.

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I'll definitely go with the cable tie trick next time. Needle nose pliers worked,  but it was not without a number of expletives, especially on the 50 springs. 

 

Great to hear the maximum recommend spring levels. I asked that when I first got mine and never saw an answer. Many thanks for sharing. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Ok so this morning I have taken out the #30 springs and put in #20 springs from the Gunfighter Pro. So now on each axis I have one #50 and one #20 spring.

Man I am getting pretty good at this, had the stick off the Monster Tech Mount, gimbal out, springs swapped out, and everything back together ready to go in 30 minutes. And re-calibrated.  Not bad,  again I have to tip my hat to VKB for the ease of usability in accessing and working on this gimbal design. Very nice.

 

Have only been moving it around for a little while, and I am pretty sure I am going to like this feel even better than what I had adding the #30 springs. Little less resistance especially moving to extremes, but still enough resistance overall that I can tell " I think" when I have the stick centered. Will be able to tell better once I get some flight time in with it in my Career. I had a little bit of area in the center of the pitch axis, where the stick would stay where I put it - very small but noticeable. I loosed up on the pitch dry clutch slightly, and this took care of that. I hopefully will have a couple of hours later this afternoon to really give it a good test in BoX.

 

It has taken me longer to adjust and get the stick feel where I like it with the Gunfighter versus the Virpil , but the customizability of the VKB is very nice for sure. From having the options of combining different spring strengths along with the dry clutches. It will be interesting once I set this up in choppers later on to see how increasing the dry clutches might help in them.

 

One with any tastes in feel can definitely get the stick where they like it with a little effort and testing.

Edited by dburne

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Ok flew some of my Spit Kuban Career this afternoon.

Feeling great now, and scored several kills. I think I have this baby tweaked just right for me.

 

I would encourage anyone to get in there and adjust to your own feel, starting out I was not so impressed but now it is great for me.

And to top it off, last mission I flew in my Career I got promoted to Commanding Officer of 57th GIAP!

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I'm glad that you found a setting that works for you.

 

I've spent an entire week swapping in and out springs and cams, but unless they come up with a #20 cam, I will never find the sweet spot I'm looking for.

I guess I'm too demanding. 

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2 hours ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

I'm glad that you found a setting that works for you.

 

I've spent an entire week swapping in and out springs and cams, but unless they come up with a #20 cam, I will never find the sweet spot I'm looking for.

I guess I'm too demanding. 

 

I too would be very interested in trying out a #20 cam, would like just a little more center detent over what I get with the #10 which has hardly any.

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@LukeFF

 

:good:

Thanks for the pointer on changing that round hat on the left to relative axis and buttons. 

I assigned it for panning around in my exterior view.

Ended up assigning the gunsight range and base to a couple buttons on my CH Throttle Quadrant, which is mounted just to left of my Warthog Throttle.

All working great for me.

 

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1 hour ago, dburne said:

@LukeFF

 

:good:

Thanks for the pointer on changing that round hat on the left to relative axis and buttons. 

I assigned it for panning around in my exterior view.

Ended up assigning the gunsight range and base to a couple buttons on my CH Throttle Quadrant, which is mounted just to left of my Warthog Throttle.

All working great for me.

 

 

Good to read! Having all those axes is one of the reasons I like the VKB stick so much. 

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Hey there - question for you fellas - I've built a base for my Gunfighter which will be fine, but my office is kind of narrow. I'm looking at those desk mounts made by Mostertech and Virpil as an alternative, maybe saving some space. Do you have preferences - is one better than the other?  I know the Monstertech has a Gunfighter plate - dunno about Virpil.    Thanx...

Gunfighter.jpg

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, gn728 said:

Hey there - question for you fellas - I've built a base for my Gunfighter which will be fine, but my office is kind of narrow. I'm looking at those desk mounts made by Mostertech and Virpil as an alternative, maybe saving some space. Do you have preferences - is one better than the other?  I know the Monstertech has a Gunfighter plate - dunno about Virpil.    Thanx...

 

 

AFAIK Virpil is not offering a Gunfighter plate for their deskmount at this time. Virpil is a very good deskmount at a very reasonable price however.

 

MonsterTech of course does offer a Gunfighter plate,  and they make a very good mounting system that is very compact and easy to take on and off ( Virpil is easy too of course).

I have both deskmounts and really like them both. MonsterTech is high quality, and very highly adjustable,  but at a premium price also. It is also a little more compact than the Virpil Mount. Adjusting Monster Tech up and down and for and aft, is done by loosening two screws and just sliding to get exactly where you want.  You can not only adjust height up and down but also distance from desk to plate. Virpil mount is a little more limited in that area. No adjustment for distance from desk. Up and down are through separate holes, not sliding so limited by where the holes are.

 

Be aware if you are using the extension with the Gunfighter, you would need the MonsterTech extended desk mount if you went with them, not the standard.

 

In fact I also have a second Monster Tech Mount with Warthog Throttle Plate for my throttle. Of course I did not need the extended mount for the throttle just the standard.

You can see my two mounts together in the first pic I posted in this thread.

 

 

Edited by dburne

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@dburne - Thanx - I saw had you both - was wondering if you preferred on over the other..:cool: 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, gn728 said:

@dburne - Thanx - I saw had you both - was wondering if you preferred on over the other..:cool: 

 

Yeah again they are both very good - I am glad I got the Virpil for my T-50 Mongoose setup, but I really do like the adjustability of the Monster Tech so I am glad I have that for my Gunfighter Pro.

 

Another thing the Virpil stick mounting bracket is in the front of the gimbal case, not the bottom like the Gunfighter. And the Virpil desk mount bracket is placed for that.  So would have to keep that in mind in finding a way to mount the Gunfighter to a Virpil Mount.

Edited by dburne

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Posted (edited)
On 7/10/2018 at 1:45 AM, LukeFF said:

Having the clutches tightened just made the stick too "sticky" around the center and more trouble than it was worth.

 

Didnt read the whole thread so i dont know if that was already mentioned. I had the same issue with the clutches so i disassembeled the whole base and removed the clutches completely and cleaned them with some iso alcohol. I also removed some molding leftovers from them on the edges. After doing that i applied a very thin layer of grease on the clutches. Then i put everything together and thightened the clutches relatively strong. It feels awesome now. Sure you lose the remove to center a bit but that is what i like. This makes flying very nice and i dont need to trim anymore because the stick has a very tiny zone around the center where the stick stays when i take my hand off of it. 

 

Springs are #50s for both axis and the standard spring just on the pitch axis. So rolling is easier while pitching has good resistence at the maximum position. The bad thing is, that only one of my three #10 cam profiles have absolutely no center bump but the other 2s have a soft center bump. Not talking about the #30 cams. I would like to have another no center cam profile. My setup for now has no center for pitch and a soft center for roll. Support told me to use fine sandpaper to sand the cam down to make it more smooth. But i dont like that idea.

 

Edit: You have to remove both PCBs in order to remove the clutches. On one of the PCBs are little washers to make enough space between the PCB and the magnet. They are tiny and could be easy lost. So watch out when you want to do that. Its on your own risk of course. Dont blame me if something goes wrong if anyone tries that. ;)

Edited by Ishtaru

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8 hours ago, Ishtaru said:

 

Springs are #50s for both axis and the standard spring just on the pitch axis. So rolling is easier while pitching has good resistence at the maximum position. The bad thing is, that only one of my three #10 cam profiles have absolutely no center bump but the other 2s have a soft center bump. Not talking about the #30 cams. I would like to have another no center cam profile. My setup for now has no center for pitch and a soft center for roll. Support told me to use fine sandpaper to sand the cam down to make it more smooth. But i dont like that idea.

 

This is interesting, I have noticed a play around center of my pitch axis, but not in my roll axis.

Pitch for me has a small area of slop where the stick can just be moved with no resistance so it stays where moved. You can see it in the calibration screen, and see it in the way it will change the plane's pitch trim. 

Roll is nice and tight and you can tell where exact center is. In calibration screen it returns to exact center every time after it is moved.

 

I plan on taking the gimbal out again this morning and giving it a good lookover and see if I can notice maybe why this is and get it tightened up. 

I was wondering if it might also be the cam. As I understand it #10 cams are supposed to be soft center cams. My pitch also feels more like a no center.

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It is the cam profile. I switched them once to test it. I would like to know if it is the same for everyone? One soft center and one no center cam. Both labeled as #10 cam.

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23 minutes ago, Ishtaru said:

It is the cam profile. I switched them once to test it. I would like to know if it is the same for everyone? One soft center and one no center cam. Both labeled as #10 cam.

 

I am thinking it is the cam.

Took it apart this morning and gave it a good go over, everything tight including cam and springs looking good.

It would take me around 10-12% deadzone in IL-2 to dial out any pitch movement in that slop area.

 

Roll is tight as it can be, returns to the same value in the VKB calibration screen every time. Not so in pitch axis.

 

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Posted (edited)

I took it back apart, swapped the cams just to see if that was it. I will tip my hat to VKB, changing cams is not too bad at all. Very nice design there.  Even replaced the two springs in the pitch axis just in case.

Put it back together, and nope still the same slop only in pitch axis. Wasn't the cam.

 

Took it apart again, this time loosed the dry clutch on the pitch axis all the way where there is no tension on it at all. I only had a little bit on it.

Back together again , and voila that was it. The stick will now return to center completely with no slop.

Now I have a little dry clutch on the roll axis, and it does not do this - it returns to center every time even with a little more resistance on it.

Not so on the pitch axis though, so really not sure why it would be different that the roll axis. With no dry clutch, the center is very loose feeling.

 

I like a little resistance so I can feel center, but apparently can not get it on the pitch for this stick. Maybe I will go back to a #50 and #30 spring instead of #20 that might

help a little. Going to first give it a few days and few hours of flying to see how I get acclimated to the way it is now.

Flew 3 of my Career missions when finished, and did pretty good - got several kills so I may can get used to it this way.

 

Tired of tweaking this thing lol.

Edited by dburne

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Could it be that with the extenson, the offset weight of the grip and tube is pulling slightly backwards, making it harder to get a consistant center, unilke on the roll axis ?

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5 minutes ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

Could it be that with the extenson, the offset weight of the grip and tube is pulling slightly backwards, making it harder to get a consistant center, unilke on the roll axis ?

 

I think you may be right. As mentioned though it is finding center now that I have 0 on the clutch damper, just has a loose feel so at least by feel hard to feel where center is on the pitch axis. Not so with the roll axis, it feels fine and I can easily tell it is centered . But of course roll does not have an offset.  And I can run a little clutch damper on the roll without affecting it finding center. Perhaps the offset of the extension tube is in fact contributing to that on the pitch.

 

I suppose this is just me being a little nit picky, likely for a lot of folks that would not bother them at all. I was just having trouble understanding why the two were different and you may be on to why that is.  It is a long somewhat heavy extension tube. My Virpil extension is 150 mm and it is straight. I understand this Gunfighter Pro extension is 200mm and has that offset.

 

I did have some very good flights in my Career yesterday with it as is so I am going to continue with it as is for a while before trying to change anything again.

Plus part of it is me just getting adjusted from the feel of the Virpil to the feel of the Gunfighter. 

 

I am very much liking the customizability and options all those MCG Pro buttons/axis gives.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 7/13/2018 at 10:55 AM, dburne said:

 

I too would be very interested in trying out a #20 cam, would like just a little more center detent over what I get with the #10 which has hardly any.

 

Yep, VKB need too manufacture new soft CAM (more linear CAM with no center detend).

With current soft CAM if You put stronger spring, You getting more centering force almost only on the edges of delfection, at the center is something like 0.05 more centering force, almost no noticable. So You need to put 2x more spring exceeding the safe #80 springs level.

I'm using GunF from months, only in desktop config P#40, R#40 clutches off. With extension the P#50+#50, R#50+#50 was ok for me, but that was a risky setup.

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I came across this on the official VKB forum :

 

Post is from AeroGator, dated 30 January 2018

Quote

Talking about making cross-bred (10/30) cams.... errr... we don't see it viable for the foreseeable future.
Who knows what can happen a year later, but for now there is little we can offer in this respect. Sorry.

 

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Phantom Button Presses in MCG grips.

 

I had heard about this , even saw it in the VKB software viewing the buttons tab, but usually they were higher button numbers that did not affect me.

Sunday afternoon though they did. I had spent probably between 5-6 hours gaming with the Gunfighter Pro. On the last couple of missions I flew, I was having a lot of trouble taking off. It was like I could not get enough right rudder trim, I would put my normal amount in and the plane still veered off to the left. I would have to compensate with full right rudder just to manage to take off. And then in flight my plane rudder trim would get out of shape.

 

After the last mission, I exited out and checked the VKB software. Button presses were lit up like a Christmas tree. Obviously I was getting rudder trimmed full left after entering the cockpit causing this issue. Now that was frustrating.

To get rid of these phantom button presses one has to either restart the device with the software, or unplug the usb and plug back in.

 

So I guess what I am going to have to do, especially in my longer sessions is make sure when I exit the game for a short break I open the VKB software to check if these phantom presses are building up, and restart the device to get rid of them if they are.

I understand VKB is aware and working on a fix, so hopefully eventually we will get a firmware update that addresses this for good.

 

So I would suggest for new users of the MCG grip to keep an eye on this until a fix does come out.

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2 hours ago, dburne said:

To get rid of these phantom button presses one has to either restart the device with the software, or unplug the usb and plug back in.

 

You dont need to exit the game for doing that. Just tab out of the game, start the vkb configurator and use the restart function. At least it works for me. Had to do it once.

Edited by Ishtaru

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6 minutes ago, Ishtaru said:

You can restart the software while playing the game. Just tab out of the game and start the VKB configurator. It works at least for me. 

 

You dont need to exit the game for doing that. Just tab out of the game, start the vkb configurator and use the restart function. At least it works for me. Had to do it once.

 

Good to know thanks for the tip.

Have flown three mission so far in my Career this morning, not getting them yet - will keep an eye out though I am sure they will creep in at some point.

I have been exiting and checking the VKB software each time between missions to see when they start.

Edited by dburne

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Sorry had to correct my post. Something got wrong. Another tip is to let the axes trigger in the neutral (unsafe) position when calibrating. If not doing this, you would get wrong button presses for the trigger. Normally, the trigger hast 4 button presses possible. One in the up( safe) position button nr. 24, one press for the near neutral position button nr. 25 which can be shifted, one when the click happens which is button nr. 3 and another shiftable position near the end of the axes travel which is button number 26.

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33 minutes ago, Ishtaru said:

Sorry had to correct my post. Something got wrong. Another tip is to let the axes trigger in the neutral (unsafe) position when calibrating. If not doing this, you would get wrong button presses for the trigger. Normally, the trigger hast 4 button presses possible. One in the up( safe) position button nr. 24, one press for the near neutral position button nr. 25 which can be shifted, one when the click happens which is button nr. 3 and another shiftable position near the end of the axes travel which is button number 26.

 

Yeah I calibrated it properly, this is more like tons of phantom button presses, and I mean a lot.

So far this morning it has not happened, not really sure what triggers them - have flown 4 missions so far. 

Going to take a break now but leave stick plugged in and see how it is later today.

 

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1 hour ago, dburne said:

Yeah I calibrated it properly, this is more like tons of phantom button presses, and I mean a lot.

 

I know exactly what you mean. These lit up buttons in the configurator are annoying to see but this happens rarely to me. And when this happens, its mostly the lower unused buttons so it dosent affect me much. Only when i see it in the configurator. I also dont have a clue why this happens. But im sure it has nothing to do with the games.

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7 minutes ago, Ishtaru said:

 

I know exactly what you mean. These lit up buttons in the configurator are annoying to see but this happens rarely to me. And when this happens, its mostly the lower unused buttons so it dosent affect me much. Only when i see it in the configurator. I also dont have a clue why this happens. But im sure it has nothing to do with the games.

 

Yeah it is the firmware for sure, and pretty sure VKB has confirmed that so hopefully a fix will come before too long. It is certainly not game related in any way.

 

So I just came back to the computer after a little break, and now I have 5 buttons lit up across the bottom row, beginning with button 121. It seems to start with the bottom row of buttons and work it's way up. Like you those higher button numbers would not really affect me, it is when it gets into the ones I use. Sunday when it interfered with my trim it had been on most of the day as I flew most of the day. Also interesting to note I have trim assigned to POV1, so it was affecting the POV1 left position.

 

Apparently it must be associated with the amount of time the stick is plugged in. With the black box, I normally go ahead and unplug it when done for the day.

 

Will leave it on the rest of the afternoon and check back occasionally- probably won't fly anymore this afternoon but curious to see how many more buttons will be lit up as the day progresses.

Edited by dburne

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