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Request to push for VR improvements

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I don´t know how bottlenecked is Prepar3D (CPU vs GPU).  Maybe your 1070 was bottlenecked already with Prepar3D and this technique reduce GPU load, so gained 30%.

 

But in the case of IL-2 is still to be demonstrated that the VRWorks techniques will reduce CPU load, which is responsible for every plane Flying model, Damage model, AI, calculate scene, etc.

 

With new high-definition headsets (Reverb, Pimaxes, etc) this could certainly help to reduce GPU load since GPU could became the bottleneck for this high-def devices (especially with High or Extreme clouds).

 

So, yes, it would be worth if dev team could take a look of it. Even if it is only for Nvidia cards.(which are the dominant cards in our IL-2)

Edited by chiliwili69

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Chiliwili69,

    Sorry, typo on my previous email - I have an RTX2070 (not 1070). P3D already has a low frame rate (old graphics engine ) so every little bit helps. Single-pass provides 55 to 60 fps when two-pass only provides 40->45. Therefore, with SteamVR reprojection, I get fairly smooth VR in low complexity scenery - like MCAS Kaneohe on Oahu - so I can fly the VRS F-18 and with FSX@War, I can do a little red-blue action - catapult launch off the coast and shoot HARMs at SA-2s at the airfield.

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On 7/13/2018 at 10:33 AM, Wolf8312 said:

 

They are okay for now as there is no competition. However if more people get turned onto VR (and they will) and one day a flight sim arrives on the market as good as BOX but with the ability to hold a constant 90 then they might begin to lose customers. Constant 90 is really what alot of us dream of right now, esepcially because BOX can hold 90 for so long and so has given us the taste!

 

 

I find this thread strange: people complain that 90fps is a must or that CPU faster than 4.6Ghz is a requirement for decent VR experience.

I think that lower specs are fine too as long as you turn re-projection on. I also had unsatisfactory experience until I found this re-projection setting which made my VR experience considerably smoother  (still slow in some cities though).

 

First you need to install "Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR" and then in this file: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\MixedRealityVRDriver\resources\settings\default.vrsettings you must uncomment (ie. remove two backslashes in front of it) this line: "motionReprojectionMode" : "auto" (default.vrsettings file uses JSON format)

I know doing this made the game much more playable for me (I have Reverb and 1080Ti running on i3-8350k CPU at 4.2Ghz), even though it started showing fps in the 45fps range where previously it went all the way to 90fps.

 

I hope it helps some on this forum the way it helped me.

 

 

Edited by WheelwrightPL

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22 hours ago, whitav8 said:

Sorry, typo on my previous email - I have an RTX2070 (not 1070). P3D already has a low frame rate (old graphics engine ) so every little bit helps. Single-pass provides 55 to 60 fps when two-pass only provides 40->45

 

I don´t know what VR device you use or what level of SS you apply. I also I don´t know how bottlenecked is Prepar3D for CPU and CPU.

The only way to know that would be following this steps:

 

1. Install fpsVR. It is a really cheap app.

2. Create a kind of flight record in PRepar3D. 

3. Run flight record with fpsVR with two-pass, and see GPU  and CPU frametimes (make a screencapture if possible)

4. Run flight record with fpsVR with single-pass, and see GPU load and CPU frametimes (make a screencapture if possible)

 

So, we will see where we get the gain.

 

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This is a blast from the past :)

Edited by ICDP
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19 minutes ago, ICDP said:

This is a blast from the past :)

 

Yep...

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Here you go - Prepar3D single-pass versus two-pass VR. Note how with single-pass, the CPU time goes down and the GPU goes up a little but the FPS is better (65 vs 50 )

I have the 9700K@5Ghz with an RTX2070 and the HP Reverb. The F-18 is from VRS and with FSX@War can fire weapons against red forces.

 

 

SInglePass2.thumb.jpg.ed66884ce647396c8d1700c46327984a.jpgTwoPass2.thumb.jpg.faadc5c8cca5588c1b5bcb9885e8f939.jpg

Edited by whitav8
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Average 55.5 fps with dual-pass vs Average 53.3 fps with single-pass. The difference is minor.

 

BTW: did anybody get a big graphical boost in VR by going from 1080-Ti class GPU to RTX-2080 Ti ? I only mean less CPU-intensive missions like for example 2-versus-4-dogfight in Quick Mission Builder ?

I am asking because I am not sure if I should pull the trigger on a $1500 card.

Edited by WheelwrightPL

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2 hours ago, WheelwrightPL said:

Average 55.5 fps with dual-pass vs Average 53.3 fps with single-pass. The difference is minor.

 

BTW: did anybody get a big graphical boost in VR by going from 1080-Ti class GPU to RTX-2080 Ti ? I only mean less CPU-intensive missions like for example 2-versus-4-dogfight in Quick Mission Builder ?

I am asking because I am not sure if I should pull the trigger on a $1500 card.

 

Do you get a boost if you OC your 1080Ti?  If yes then the answer is yes, you will see an increase with a 2080Ti as long as the GPU is your bottleneck.  Having said that they can be bought a lot cheaper than $1500 (assuming USD).

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On 2/9/2020 at 6:04 AM, WheelwrightPL said:

Average 55.5 fps with dual-pass vs Average 53.3 fps with single-pass. The difference is minor.

 

This is not true. The CPU frametimes are really lower.

Let´s analyze this enlightening test:

 

1388559367_2-passvs1-pass.thumb.png.944301413e13afb0adc74ab2967de5bf.png

 

We should not care about the "Average FPS" value since this is the averaged value for the total 4.0 minutes that fpsVR has been running with Prepar3D (this include from the moment you launch Prepar3D, select menu, launch flight, do one test first with SinglePass, don one test with two-pass, etc, etc). So this value is mixing everything.

 

I don´t know if there is a key in fpsVR to reset the average FPS, just before running the test. (I think this has been requested to the fpsVR developer).

 

So the real info is the history graph of both pictures and the puntual FPS value reported (65 vs 50).

 

I assume he is runing the REverb at 90Hz, so the frametimes threshold to be at 90fps is 1000/90=11.1 ms.

The scale of the frametimes is:

Bottom=0 ms

middle=11.1 ms

Top= 22.2 ms

 

I have printed the image and measured with a rule the CPU frametimes:

With two-pass the CPU frametimes are around 18ms (so 1000/18 is around 55 fps)

With single-pass the CPU frametimes are around 14ms (so 1000/14 is around 71 fps).

 

So, surprisingly the VRworks technique of Nvidia reduce significantly the CPU frametimes in Prepar3D. This is exactly what we need in IL-2, reduce CPU frametimes.

I think it would be good if the developer could take a closer look of it.

Thanks whitav8 for the test.

I don´t know if other flightsims have also implemented this techniques.

 

Edited by chiliwili69
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8 hours ago, WheelwrightPL said:

Average 55.5 fps with dual-pass vs Average 53.3 fps with single-pass. The difference is minor.

 

BTW: did anybody get a big graphical boost in VR by going from 1080-Ti class GPU to RTX-2080 Ti ? I only mean less CPU-intensive missions like for example 2-versus-4-dogfight in Quick Mission Builder ?

I am asking because I am not sure if I should pull the trigger on a $1500 card.

I upgraded from a 1080 Ti to a 2080Ti and got a big graphical boost.

Play in ultra settings and very smooth.

All options in full except

low shadows

No mirror

100KM visibility

 

Often do 8 vs 8 in Quick combat, with heavy clouds , Rhineland map and its smooth with HP Reverb at 60hz

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7 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

I upgraded from a 1080 Ti to a 2080Ti and got a big graphical boost.

Play in ultra settings and very smooth.

All options in full except

low shadows

No mirror

100KM visibility

 

Often do 8 vs 8 in Quick combat, with heavy clouds , Rhineland map and its smooth with HP Reverb at 60hz

 

I would think you should be able to have shadows full on with that rig.

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16 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

I would think you should be able to have shadows full on with that rig.

 

I agree that this is very disappointing performance: if I am paying $1500 for a video card, I expect extreme shadows and extreme clouds at 90Hz, not at 60Hz, with reprojection turned on.

I turned on full shadows in my 1080 Ti and the cockpits look so much better I cannot  go back.

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15 minutes ago, WheelwrightPL said:

 

I agree that this is very disappointing performance: if I am paying $1500 for a video card, I expect extreme shadows and extreme clouds at 90Hz, not at 60Hz, with reprojection turned on.

I turned on full shadows in my 1080 Ti and the cockpits look so much better I cannot  go back.

Then dont buy a 2080Ti, no system can run this sim with everything at full graphics and expect to have a smooth 90hz experience.

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@chiliwili69,

    Yes, don't pay any attention at all about the average FPS. I was switching back and forth between single-pass and two-pass at a paused position so the average meant nothing. Prepar3D lets you change that selection on the fly - don't have to restart at all.

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12 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Then dont buy a 2080Ti, no system can run this sim with everything at full graphics and expect to have a smooth 90hz experience.

 

I am buying it tomorrow from amazon so I can return it easily. I will keep you gents posted (BTW I also overclocked my CPU from 4.2 to 4.6 today but see no difference, my 32GB RAM is at 3200).

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