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Plank

Duelling: the art of practising.

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Posted (edited)

 Ideas, tips, suggetions, anecdotes and pitthy observations.  Vol one.    06/07/2018

 

Dear chaps.

 

Pull up a crumpet and let me tell you a story.

 

Over in the RoF forum some chap got a bit hasty in suggesting a good match up of planes.

It was the Sopwith Pup and Halberstadt DII or something.

To test this out mr Arty S! set up a duelling server and things took off from there with 

an rather informal once a week duelling session. ( It's still on as far as I am aware.)

 

The original reason for the duelling was dispensed with and the act of duelling itself became the focus.

 

Over the relatively short time the server has been up, the amount of man hours flown,

in contesting the air space, one on one, has been quite extraordinary.

 

The regulars to this once a week event will attest to it's entertaining usefulness. ( all three five of them...)

( My warmest regards to you!)

 

Some purists are rather put out by the concept of duelling , fair enough, but there is no denying that practising your art

is beneficial and will stand you in good steed in "real" action.

Frankly it's blinking good fun too. : - )

 

My opinion/observation is thus:

 

Duelling is very good practice.

It is beneficial to both confidence and courage.

 

Over on the RoF "En Garde" duelling server hosted by the Gallant Mr Arty Effem we had some basic rules

and generally stuck to them. This was informally agreed upon and up held to a good degree.

Essentially we wanted a good clean fight and no interlopers. and it worked quite well. 

 

Why duelling?

 

In a regulated environment we had very quick turn around. 

One hour of constant duelling was a blinking lot of hard flying. and some.

 

We had the choice to keep at it with one partner or swap.

 

Working out a strategy over time made you try things you normally would not consider 

and you began to see the subtle things that can make all the difference.

Conversely in changing partners you had to be very wary and start learning again.

 

Also the repetitive nature of the mission is extremely good for trying things out.  

By quickly comparing outcomes that are still fresh in your mind you can

consider how to employ them to the best effect. This is super important!

 

Sum up:

 

Flying Circus will be filling the Rise of flights boots so I am hoping that

the genuine good nature of the duellists is cross decked over with it. : - )

 

Once things get rolling I hope that Artys "En Garde" duelling server will supplement the regular FC mission servers.

 

and that some old hands and new hands will give this duelling thing a whirl.

 

Salute!

 

Planky.

 

PS. I think the Halberstadt DII vs the Sopwith Pup is my fave match up. With half a tank of fuel each. : - )

 

PPS. The difference between duelling and furballing is that duelling is regulated and only 1 vs 1, not unregulated and 1 vs many etc. S!

 

PPPS. Salute to mr Arty Effem for being such a good sort and hosting the Sunday duellists on the En Garde server. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Plank
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3 hours ago, Plank said:

 

To test this out mr Arty S! set up a duelling server and things took off from there with 

an rather informal once a week duelling session. ( It's still on as far as I am aware.)

 

 

Listening on the grapevine, I'm given to understand that due a certain individual's poor attendance record, the duelling server will be available only upon advance request, made via its contact address, not this or any forum. Regarding time of operation, it should be made clear that 'Sunday' is Kiwi for Saturday 21::00 Zulu.

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and then there is the "other"duelling.... wink.

 

Dear Mr Cynical.

 

Sometimes the people who start things are not the same ones who finish them, and we can all take turns carrying the can.

However if it was not for the outstanding service provided by the Mr Arty Effem ( You maybe familiar with him/her/them...) we would have been forced to play on an IKONS ON server! * Gasp * and gotten constantly interloped... he is a good chap old Arty.

 

My Rolodex slipped off the dashboard of my N17 and dropped out of view into the interminable mud of no man's land.

( You may have to supply the address again I am afraid.)

 

As it was Sunday morning was proving to be problematic, it's either too early or too blinking late depending where you are.

Sunday morning became a bit complicated after becoming embroiled.... ahem. If you gather my meaning. Nudge nudge...

 

But the chaps did carry on I heard. ( Telegraph ) Good! Thats the spirit!  : - )

 

Right I am off. It's getting cold and I have to go out for dinner. Wink.

 

Salute!

 

Planky.

 

 

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Mhmm. You should sometimes  hold it on a Saturday. Sundays never worked out for me...

 

S!

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4 hours ago, Plank said:

 

( You may have to supply the address again I am afraid.)

 

 

I believe the other servers from the same source all display the contact address.

I don't know why you're mentioning this subject here anyway, since anyone with RoF already knows, the rest are unlikely to adopt it at this stage, and it will be somewhere between a long time and never before it can be ported to FC.

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Posted (edited)
Early ROF took off with a semi official duelling server run by Vaal that in the later days was gobbled up by BOX server space.
Box sports one too, so tel us why couldn’t FC have a specific one.
It probably won't take long before TC has it's own too.
It better be a lose affaire where every outfit finds their own faire so it is useful for squad practice, eg breaking in new recruits or just an evening of fast fun between friends.
Edited by West

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6 hours ago, West said:
Early ROF took off with a semi official duelling server run by Vaal that in the later days was gobbled up by BOX server space.
Box sports one too, so tel us why couldn’t FC have a specific one.

 

 

The RoF duelling server was based on the original operated by Vaal, with several enhancements added.

On day one FC could have one too, but perhaps better to wait until there's a credible plane set available.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/6/2018 at 12:08 PM, Cynic_Al said:

 

..., and it will be somewhere between a long time and never before it can be ported to FC.

 

1 hour ago, Cynic_Al said:

....

On day one FC could have one too, but perhaps better to wait until there's a credible plane set available.

 

 

 

 

In case you would not know already a BOX key or keys for server use only can be obtained from Han, I believe, by simple request.

At least that was so in early ROF so I don't see why not with BOX too.

Edited by West

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2 hours ago, West said:

 

 

In case you would not know already a BOX key or keys for server use only can be obtained from Han, I believe, by simple request.

At least that was so in early ROF so I don't see why not with BOX too.

 

RoF hasn't been that way for years, but whatever the method required for FC, I hope I'm not being naive in expecting it to be documented.

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Posted (edited)

@ Cynic_Al

Got it wrong, they changed and documented it now.

Check the manual where you'll find in the "Mission Making Mission Editor" IL2 subforum, 2nd pinned thread from above "IL2 Sturmovik Mission Editor and MP Server Manual", chapter 11 page 167: "Running MP missions" sub "Create a Dserver account".

Kicking in for early access of next FC Module would enable you to place a Dserver request, that is if you don't have any other BOX module yet (Summer sales just finnished).

Edited by West

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1 hour ago, Space_Ghost said:

TL;TR;DR

 

Too Long; Too Raaaidy; Didn't Read


It's a Plankthread. Don't expect it to have any purpose (or content) other than exposiotion of OP persona and eloquence.

 

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Posted (edited)

Hello Haash.

 

Read the rules. Done. Check.

 

I see that writing rambling speeches on particular subjects is not covered in the rules.

 

In the RoF forum there was a culture of antagonistic posting in threads which

became quite aggressive and snarky. A major problem will be the inheritance of

this culture in this new forum... I have no suggestions on how to avoid it.

 

No one person is always right and no one person is always wrong.

 

The reason why I started this thread here was to discuss Duelling.

If I wrote too many words then I am sorry for those who do not like to read.

There are some chaps out there who do like duelling and will chime in

at some stage. and the rest I guess can just ignore it. There is no reason

to put down a thread or it's creator because it is not in your interest or you don't like the

word count. * Shrug * 

 

For the record I would like to leave some parts of the RoF forum behind

and will endeavour to act accordingly. I will do my best. 

 

If there really is a problem then by all means PM me and lets sort it out.

 

Salute!

 

Planky.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Plank

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I rather enjoy your word count, aithough as HillBilly points out I suspect he wasn't aiming at you.

 

Unless, of course, he was challenging you to a duel.  Pistols, or poems, at dawn...............Dulce et decorum est, so on and so forth.

 

Let the verbiage begin:hunter:

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Posted (edited)

I felt it was my planky duty to read the rules.

and allay any fears that I may just be planking about while on duty...

 

Brandy? and have a box of crumpets. ( They may smell slightly of cordite but are still delicious. )

 

To DUELLING ! and may the best pilot win!

 

Salute!

 

Planky.

 

PS Hello HB ! Great to see you here. and you tell the RoF blown ins... they don't have BoX bars...

      so when we get our FC bar we will be special. ; - )

 

 

 

 

Edited by Plank
I forgotted something inportant...

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8 minutes ago, Plank said:

 

      so when we get out FC bar we will be special. ; - )

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think anyone here would think you aren't SPECIAL, bars or otherwise.

 

I expect they probably have a special room with lovely soft fabricky walls even including your very own special jacket (flying, obviously, with lots of straps and buckles) just for you.

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Posted (edited)

There is always someone in this community that will contribute in a topic by telling us they have abseloutly no intrest in it.????

I find your posts optimistical and positive, witch by the standard of this site is intolerable, hope you keep doing them

Edited by LuseKofte
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8 hours ago, HiIIBiIIy said:

Plank ole chap, I don't think Haashashin's post was directed at you.

I think it was directed at everyone. I also think it's great we are already introducing him to RoF forum culture of  lecturing the moderators and telling them why they should leave us and us only alone, and tradition of blame-redirecting, on top of tradition of filling the forums with purple prose. It is important that he knows who's moved in. 

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Hi all,

 

As Trupo said, wasn't directed to anyone in particular but to everyone.

 

That's said, I or other mods, AFAIK, do not participate in conversations here. This is an exception to the rule.

 

Anything you want to say/complain about moderation feel free to follow rule 6 and PMs us.

 

Also when the subsections are set, post the topic in the relevant subsection. Off topics will be moved or deleted if needed.

 

But most importantly: Keep it civil and respect other members.

 

Haash

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Today's thoughts on Duelling.

 

by Plank.

 

Ahem.

 

When FC kicks off with the Dr1 and SPAD we are faced with a rather interesting

situation. There are three duelling options. D/S, D/D and S/S .

 

If we choose the classic head to head co alt no firing till passing start

then are faced with an interesting proposition.

 

In the D/S duel we can play a long game or a short one.

 

If the SPAD driver elects to knife fight with the Dr1 then it's a short game.

If the SPAD driver goes for a long game and manages to extend without being shot to bits then....

 

I suspect that some chaps will suggest that the SPAD will dictate the fight.

But, they have to get out of range first.

This will be the first hurdle to success...

 

On the other hand if the SPAD tries to knife fight then things will surely go bad it. 

 

But wait.

 

In duelling you can try and try and try some more. and in the trying you see some possible solution.

 

This is the magic of high rate duelling. ( it's quite simply great fun too.)

 

Is it possible that the SPAD could pull a very fast trick that might knobble the DR1 straight off the bat?

 

We need to get Baron Von Zlatarn on to this, he is a wizard in a plane. S!

If anyone can out manoeuvrer  a Dr1 in a SPAD it's BVZ.

 

So there is a bit of a conversation starter.

 

Salute!

 

Planky.

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On 7/9/2018 at 2:08 PM, Space_Ghost said:

TL;TR;DR

 

Too Long; Too Raaaidy; Didn't Read

 

On this forum it seems there's nothing objectionable in criticising overall writing style, rather than actual content.  One hopes it's a consistent view.

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Ahem.

Not to be a pest but...

Lets try and recover this thread back to it's original topic!

Thanks!

 

Salute!

 

Planky.

 

 

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BvZ very well maybe the man for that job Planky, be interesting if he chimes in here..

 

But a Spad is never going to out-maneouver a Dr1 without a huge disparity in pilot abilities.

The ideal for the Spad is a near vertical dive followed by a vertical climb back up to safety, repeat..

This can be difficult to maintain if the Dr1 isn't beaten quicky, in which case it's time to extend - wait 5-10 mins for duel to resume. Spectators go put the kettle on, wash the dishes...

 

A head on pass duel is pretty much out of the question as any sensible Spad driver will fly off into the distance. Despite the Spad's speed, it takes a fair bit of time to extend and climb back to a suitable altitude for the next attack, especially if your quarry is following you.

 

So the duel should be dictated by the Spad pilot, but it'll be pretty boring for the Dr1 who will likely spend most of it trying to dodge attacks, waiting.. , and wishing for the Spad to make a silly mistake so it can get a shot in.

 

For a duel between these two I'd say the Spad needs to start 500M higher.

 

S!

 

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Posted (edited)

Don't make me re install RoF just to find out how bad this match up could be!

 

Lets just for one second cast propriety  aside ...

 

Dr1 and SPAD do the classic duel merge. then...

 

The SPAD ploughs on through and extends while diving a bit to get even moar speed.

Meanwhile the Dr1 whips about and shoots.

Keeps on shooting,

more shooting ,

a little bit more,

then a few more,

then at about 600 to 700 m gives up.

and puts the kettle on.

 

Now what?

Lets for one second imagine the SPAD is not leaking...

hard to imagine really.

But it could happen.

It could rain fish too...

 

SPAD flies off into the distance...

Dr1 starts climbing.

SPAD climbs too.

 

Hmmm.

 

Both pilots are super vigilant.

 

Is this a race to the ceiling?

Then what?

 

Hopefully the SPAD gets much higher and can try some diving attacks. ( I have never ever ever been able to make this work...)

Can the Dr1 flutter out of harms way? ( Probably.)

 

If the SPAD stays high then the Dr1 can start zoom climb attacks. The " Ave Maria " attack if you will.

 

( I punctured Thors fuel tank in just such a manner once, it was with glee that I observed fuel leaking out and he couldn't come down... for fear of my fierce Camel...Salute Thor! )

 

I suppose there are two good attacks that one could make.

The dive shoot then scoot Or the dive shoot and then zoom up... Frankly both are dangerous if you bungle your attack.

 

I am prepared to do it!

My BnZ skills are, well, I just don't have any... but heck, you only live once. ( thousands of times I mean..)

 

I feel my will crumbling. Oh for heavens sake. Shh... be quiet. Noooo... put the mouse down...

 

Ah ha!

 

I have it.

 

SPAD vs Dr1.... BUT....  always with the buts.... only with pistols. Take that!

 

Salute!

 

Plank.  ( Cashier,  polite bank robber and minister of finance.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Plank
I made it slightly more odd. Or "Raaaidy" if you will.

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11 hours ago, Plank said:

Don't make me re install RoF just to find out how bad this match up could be!

 

Lets just for one second cast propriety  aside ...

 

Dr1 and SPAD do the classic duel merge. then...

 

The SPAD ploughs on through and extends while diving a bit to get even moar speed.

Meanwhile the Dr1 whips about and shoots.

Keeps on shooting,

more shooting ,

a little bit more,

then a few more,

then at about 600 to 700 m gives up.

and puts the kettle on.

 

Now what?

Lets for one second imagine the SPAD is not leaking...

hard to imagine really.

But it could happen.

It could rain fish too...

 

SPAD flies off into the distance...

Dr1 starts climbing.

SPAD climbs too.

 

Hmmm.

 

Both pilots are super vigilant.

 

Is this a race to the ceiling?

Then what?

 

Hopefully the SPAD gets much higher and can try some diving attacks. ( I have never ever ever been able to make this work...)

Can the Dr1 flutter out of harms way? ( Probably.)

 

If the SPAD stays high then the Dr1 can start zoom climb attacks. The " Ave Maria " attack if you will.

 

( I punctured Thors fuel tank in just such a manner once, it was with glee that I observed fuel leaking out and he couldn't come down... for fear of my fierce Camel...Salute Thor! )

 

I suppose there are two good attacks that one could make.

The dive shoot then scoot Or the dive shoot and then zoom up... Frankly both are dangerous if you bungle your attack.

 

I am prepared to do it!

My BnZ skills are, well, I just don't have any... but heck, you only live once. ( thousands of times I mean..)

 

I feel my will crumbling. Oh for heavens sake. Shh... be quiet. Noooo... put the mouse down...

 

Ah ha!

 

I have it.

 

SPAD vs Dr1.... BUT....  always with the buts.... only with pistols. Take that!

 

Salute!

 

Plank.  ( Cashier,  polite bank robber and minister of finance.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

14

 

I'm hoping that shooting and using gunsights in VR will change your suggested scenario, forcing engagement ranges to become much closer.  Unreasonable doesn't agree with me, but time will tell if it will make any difference. 

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23 hours ago, Plank said:

Is it possible that the SPAD could pull a very fast trick that might knobble the DR1 straight off the bat?

 

Could this possibly be the time for  (fanfare of trumpets, roll of drums, etc...) 'The Plank Turn'?:biggrin: 

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An interesting point which might be worth considering.

 

Long range shooting is a function of a few things:

 

Vision zoom.

Aircraft stability

Tracers

Turbulence.

etc.

 

Vision, increases your ability to spot where your bullets are going way past average persons eyes.

Stability, well that's obvious. more bullets on target.

Tracers, Take them out and you can't see where your bullets are going.

Turbulence, makes both parties bump around, slip and will cause wind drift.

 

and we come back to the same problem with regards to DM in MP ,

to make everything deeper requires the system that compares everything to

do much more work. If there is accumulated delay in it then sync is going to suffer.

 

The single most processing efficient solution is to remove vision zoom.

 

It is the one thing that increases shooting range that does not require any talking between parties and game server.

 

BUT people are so used to it that they will have a fit if this is locked out. ( make it a server setting? )

 

It's a bit like fortnite. Imagine how it would tank if you made it first person... 

ARMA2 mods are still going strong, but not in first person.

( you can't "look around corners" in first person...)

 

The other three things will involve adding more to the mix.

and the dev's won't want that. Less is better. : - )

 

So the simple fix is to remove vision zoom. but the chorus of squealing will be deafening.

 

Then we can get back to only firing within 50 yards like the good old days....

 

Salute!

 

Planky.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ha!

 

The Plankturn is a last ditch effort to attack a trailing Dr1 while in your SPAD at very low altitudes.

( Probability of dying is high, but if the Dr1 has for some reason failed to spot that you have reversed on them you can cause a fuss.)

 

Plank turning is for the brave, the desperate, the crabby and lunatic fringe.

Live fast, die young old and always wear clean undergarments!

 

Scones today, ran out of crumpets. They are good though.

 

Salute!

 

Planky.

 

 

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Plank, we've had the 'Zoom' discussions several times over at RoF... when max telephoto in-game (zoomed-in) that's about real life size.

Variables being monitor size and resolution, but it's going to be there or there abouts, so this isn't really an issue at all old chap.

Being able to 'zoom out' is the artificial element, but we need that to be able to see what's around us. (Bearing in mind a large part of our peripheral vision is still missing at that).

 

S!

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7 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Could this possibly be the time for  (fanfare of trumpets, roll of drums, etc...) 'The Plank Turn'?:biggrin: 

Sounds more like ye ole Boom and Zoom to me...

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Sorry i didn't get the memo:

 

" when max telephoto in-game (zoomed-in) that's about real life size.  "

 

Does this mean we have to sit further back from our screen then???

 

Salute!

 

Plank.

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1 hour ago, Plank said:

Does this mean we have to sit further back from our screen then???

 

No Planky - it means you're going to have to re-install RoF (yet again) to try this out. :tease:

S!

 

P.S I always wanted to get the RL diameter of one of the dials to check this on my screen...

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

P.S I always wanted to get the RL diameter of one of the dials to check this on my screen...

The Sopwith Camel altimeter bezel O.D. is about 4 7/16 inches. 

Sorry but you metric heads will have to convert your selves.😁 

Edited by HiIIBiIIy

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