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Davinsky

"Captured" aircraft, anyone?

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Don't know if this has been brought up before, but, having 1 or 2 "captured" aircraft per side during MP or SP could make things interesting.

They would be clearly marked in the enemies markings and camo,  of course. What say YOU?

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SP? I'd like to see a historical justification for it.

 

MP? See above. The chat should be interesting though, as everyone complains about team killing, about not being able to recognise markings, and all the rest. Very bad idea in my opinion, but if someone wants to try it as an experiment, it should be possible now. I'd recommend having icons on, and requiring the use of specific skins.

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I really can't see the point. What good does it bring at all?

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Could be fun for some faux-Finland scenarios. The Finns used Bf-109G-2/6s and Ju-88s, but also Pe-2s as recon aircraft, and several LaGG-3s.

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I got the idea after reading about Kampfgeschwader 200. It was a special luftwaffe squadron that used captured enemy aircraft for "difficult" bombing and air-transport missions, per Wikipedia.

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This is something that's only fun as long as it's a rare exception. The endless matches filled with Japanese Fw 190s and German P-47s in War Thunder were a major obstacle to anyone looking for a quasi-historical experience.

 

Often, aircraft from the same nation have similar advantages and disadvantages. Therefore, you can develop strategies to fight them effectively. These strategies become useless in the presence of captured aircraft as you have to be prepared to encounter aircraft that perform very differently. Although this can be exciting, it should never be overused.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo
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Thanks for the feedback, it seems this idea is more trouble than it is worth. Anyway, looks like I spent my 2 cents for the year.

See you all in Kuban.

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With a couple notable exceptions, captured aircraft almost never played a part in active combat for a couple obvious reasons:

 

Aircraft are very seldom captured in airworthy state, especially not in significant numbers.

 

Captured aircraft are next to impossible to maintain and keep in an operational state due to lack of spare parts and trained ground personel with experience on the type.

 

Then of course there is the issue of friendly fire.

 

Tanks on the other hand are far more practical to use when captured. They are more often captured intact or in a state where it’s easy to repair and make them serviceable. They can more easily be refitted with domestic equipment, weapons etc. And misidentification is less of an issue in ground warfare, where speeds are slower and front lines are more stable.

Edited by Finkeren
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I've seen it happen in a few MP matches on Wings. I can't remember how or why it happened but I do remember that it didn't end well. Me and a buddy flew out in JU-88s that somehow were available to us on the Soviet side. We had big plans of bombing all the things and German fighters not knowing what to make of it. Then we got shot down by a Yak. So we tried again but this time with the brilliant addition of announcing our attack so our people wouldn't shoot at us. We got shot down by a Yak. Short story shorter, it tends to not work out well for the captured plane.

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oh and me infelice thinking people were capturing planes online

 

nahhh kill them all and god spare them

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It worked well in a coop, where everyone was in the know and skins were used. In a campaign situation where an allied transport plane is required, one has to make due. 

Spoiler

100% Legit Russian Ju52 ;)

2018_7_1__22_19_4.thumb.jpg.e56c8368e5fb547f04163e3530fda0a4.jpg

 

Edited by Leon_Portier

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If we ever venture to Burma with this sim, for a period of 1942 - 1943 a bunch of P-40Es could be used by the Japanese in air defense of Rangoon (Yangon today). But even the event described in the link below shows precisely the reason why rarely if ever were captured aircraft used:

http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/capturedby/p40warhawk/captured_p40.htm

 

It's hard to distinguish various aircraft on its own. Now imagine there are friendly and foe P-40s in the air and try distinguishing them in the evening. I'm generally against any captured aircraft with very few exceptions, like the one above when captured machines were actually put into military service and saw action against former owners.

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14 hours ago, Disarray said:

I've seen it happen in a few MP matches on Wings. I can't remember how or why it happened but I do remember that it didn't end well. Me and a buddy flew out in JU-88s that somehow were available to us on the Soviet side. We had big plans of bombing all the things and German fighters not knowing what to make of it. Then we got shot down by a Yak. So we tried again but this time with the brilliant addition of announcing our attack so our people wouldn't shoot at us. We got shot down by a Yak. Short story shorter, it tends to not work out well for the captured plane.

 

Same experience with soviet planes available for the luftwaffe.

To many trigger happy people flying on servers, and since half people deactivate the chat and only a handful are on voice com, it is always a bad experience.

A lot of people already don't bother trying to distinguish Pe2 from Bf110 or Mc202 from yaks. I even was shot down a couple weeks ago in a He111 by a 109 that crowled up on my tail and open fire at point blank range. So a captured plane is just a death wish in MP

 

Unless you have the extreme luck of avoiding anyone of your "friends", you won't make very far. 

I always keep in mind that reds are the ennemy, blues are traitors.

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber

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This isnt WT. There is no grind. If you want to fly a P47 chose the allies. If you want to fly a FW190 chose the axis. Theres no need for "captured" planes unless you're desperate to have a swastika on a spitfire. In which case use a skin.

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1 hour ago, Rolling_Thunder said:

This isnt WT. There is no grind. If you want to fly a P47 chose the allies. If you want to fly a FW190 chose the axis. Theres no need for "captured" planes unless you're desperate to have a swastika on a spitfire. In which case use a skin.

 

Don't be that rude with the OP, and read his question fully.

 

For SP his question is actually a very valid and call for a different answer than the "This ain't WT, noob" 

In a scripted campaign mixing air with ground battle, it offers interesting scenarios, like :

 

Mission 1 : crawling up towards an enemy base in a tanks, suppressing AAA as primary objective.

Mission 2 : Take off in a brand new Fw A5 prototype that just arrived on the front line, and bring it back safely for evaluation, escaping herds of angry 109s along the route.

Mission 3 : Fly back in enemy lines avoiding close prosimity with ennemy planes and use the stolen one as cover to approach and destroy a Ju52 carrying an important officier.

 

Though I hardly see any use in MP, the stolen plane concept has more interest than just putting Swastikas on everything that flies

 

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I think the comparison to War Thunder is fair, as War Thunder is likely where the OP got his idea for captured planes from. Captured planes were extremely rare, and as far as I know, never flown in combat. They were used for evaluative purposes only. Any use of captured planes, whether in singleplayer or multiplayer would be extremely unrealistic.  


In multiplayer you have the obvious problems regarding target identification. Anyone using a captured plane (ignoring how unrealistic that is) automatically has the advantage, as enemy pilots will presume that the captured plane is friendly. Once the captured plane is identified as such, it will likely be too late. Assuming that all friendly planes could be enemy planes would remove a large chunk of enjoyment from multiplayer. Teamwork would be decimated too. A flight of bombers may assume they have an escort, which suddenly turns out to be the opposite. Basically it's a can of worms that shouldn't be opened, with the potential for very few players to significantly damage the multiplayer experience.

 

46 minutes ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

For SP his question is actually a very valid and call for a different answer than the "This ain't WT, noob" 

 

Mission 1 : crawling up towards an enemy base in a tanks, suppressing AAA as primary objective.

Mission 2 : Take off in a brand new Fw A5 prototype that just arrived on the front line, and bring it back safely for evaluation, escaping herds of angry 109s along the route.

Mission 3 : Fly back in enemy lines avoiding close prosimity with ennemy planes and use the stolen one as cover to approach and destroy a Ju52 carrying an important officier.

 

The scenario described is so unrealistic it would just be silly. I mean, on what part of the front could tanks be used in an airfield raid on a prototype A5? Single player missions, if not made to be historical, can be exciting without captured planes and hollywood scenes of tanks rolling onto airfields.

 

So captured planes would significantly impact gameplay in multiplayer, and have no real place in singleplayer, as they were only used for evaluation.

I think adding captured planes is a silly, and extremely unwise idea. If you want a captured plane, I'm sure there are skins for that, but it doesn't really have a place in the game at this point.

 

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There is also the fact that if a plane's engine known to be running rough, chances are it won't be flown until it is fixed.

With a tank, it will be driven until it breaks down.

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Coconut normal allows you to take airframes captured in the campaign up, for a short while after a base is captured they are flyable.  It won't do you too much good since icons are on and AI is also present, try fooling those guys.

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There used to be a WOL mission were you had to kidnap an enemy plane and fly it back to base.  It was really fun having to avoid being shot down by everyone. 

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Swiss Bf109E fought german Bf110C

Romanian Bf109G fought german .

 

In Il2‘46 VOW online war, these campaigns were well liked by the „reds“ 😂

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Only in icons-on enviroment. In icons-off MP it's a can of worms. Unless they can be made exception from friendly fire rules and fair game for both sides :D.

 

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I think we already have enough friendly fire :biggrin:

 

Many people don't even know the silhouettes, this would make it even better.

Edited by Ropalcz

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